Politics Centrelink

[Gough]

You can't just do it for **** though, pokies, fast food, booze all contribute heavily toward adverse health outcomes.

 

[Gethelred]

People are still free to smoke, so I’m unsure how there is an impact on freedom.

If they wish to get insurance for a known killer 3x greater than Covid, they are free to pay for it.

Swiping Medicare to buy cigarettes doesn’t stop people from buying them. Rather is provided scientists and medical practitioners relevant data. The data can save lives, remove myths and allocate resources and assist in planning.

No freedoms are infringed.

Privacy? Government intrusion over individual conduct and consumer decisions?

Here's my issue: it's none of the PM's business what I spend my money on. So, choose: is the money mine and I can do what I choose with it (freedom), is the money still the governments and they can mandate how I can spend it (paternalism) or is the money the taxpayers and they can withdraw it the second I spend it in a way they don't like (individualism)?

Those are your options, choose and live with whichever mindset you are least offended by.

 

[Power Raid]

Privacy? Government intrusion over individual conduct and consumer decisions?

Here's my issue: it's none of the PM's business what I spend my money on. So, choose: is the money mine and I can do what I choose with it (freedom), is the money still the governments and they can mandate how I can spend it (paternalism) or is the money the taxpayers and they can withdraw it the second I spend it in a way they don't like (individualism)?

Those are your options, choose and live with whichever mindset you are least offended by.

The ATO already has your consumer information via your bank account

The only change is the health department would have your information relating to health

 

[Gethelred]

The ATO already has your consumer information via your bank account

The only change is the health department would have your information relating to health

You're going to have to drag me kicking and screaming into that future, my friend.

Paternalism it is.

 

[Power Raid]

You're going to have to drag me kicking and screaming into that future, my friend.

Paternalism it is.

You’re already there!

You share all your health information with the Heath department. You share all you’re prescription drug info......so just see ciggies as a prescription drug.

What many don’t like is responsibility for their actions.

 

[Evolved1]

wowwee $48 for a pack of darts nowadays? fu** paying that sort of coin for something that doesn't even give you a rev!

Although if you are on Newstart, working, retired/other and you want to spend your money on cigs, then by gees by golly by crikey you go ahead and do so. Not for me to tell you how to spend your coin.

In other words, I disagree, vehemently, with holding people accountable on how they spend their money(specifically, in this case, with respect to the subject of this thread - Newstart/social services).

I completely agree.

I generally choose individual freedom over government control unless there is strong justification to do otherwise, and there rarely is. The government can go forth and multiply here.

 

[Evolved1]

You’re already there!

You share all your health information with the Heath department. You share all you’re prescription drug info......so just see ciggies as a prescription drug.

What many don’t like is responsibility for their actions.

If we don't expect businesses and governments to take responsibility for their actions, why should individuals?

 

[Gethelred]

You’re already there!

You share all your health information with the Heath department. You share all you’re prescription drug info......so just see ciggies as a prescription drug.

What many don’t like is responsibility for their actions.

Do I really? That's interesting, seeing as I'm not on any prescription medication.

What I don't like is assumption, especially yours.

 

[Frank Bunn]

You can't just do it for **** though, pokies, fast food, booze all contribute heavily toward adverse health outcomes.

Cashless welfare cards have been trialled that allocate 80% of funds to the card and 20% is paid to the person's bank account. The card can't be used to buy alcohol, at the pokies or to withdraw cash. Smokes are allowed!

The scheme was introduced in communities where drug and alcohol abuse is a major problem, with the resulting detrimental effect on children. The scheme doesn't appear to be particularly successful. And of course, because these communities are mostly Aboriginal, the measure is seen as racist. Alcohol bans in certain communities seem to be less controversial.

 

[GreyCrow]

The only act of paternalism I fundamentally agree with is when smokes, drugs and booze are prioritised over children's needs

If you are single and live alone, spend all you like

 

[Kram]

The only act of paternalism I fundamentally agree with is when smokes, drugs and booze are prioritised over children's needs

If you are single and live alone, spend all you like

Not uncommon at all for kids to reguarly be sent without any lunch at our school.

 

[Evolved1]

Not uncommon at all for kids to reguarly be sent without any lunch at our school.

For that very reason, schools should provide lunch free of charge to all students.

Some parents are deadset shitstains.

 

[Power Raid]

Ok. So if we're gonna make people swipe Medicare cards when buying darts on the basis of smoking is a bad health choice(and it absolutely is, no arguments there) and that it should preclude them for public health, then why not just make people swipe for every bad health choice? Junk/unhealthy food? Alcohol? The other 450,000 potentially bad health choices? See what I mean? It's just a huge rabbit hole.

EDIT - The exorbitant tax on cigs is probably the best deterrent anyway.

1) not preclude all public health, rather allow the health department to allocate resources (like triage) which may preclude certain cover.
2) obtain important health date for science

3) if it is Ok to shut down an entire global economy to protect those with underlying health issues, most lifestyle related in the west.......this highlights the linkage between resources and lifestyle

4) sure add all controlled substances to the process, such as alcohol, for health and compliance to regulation

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah, that sounds exactly like "free choice".

You still haven’t highlighted where free choice is impinged

You swipe your credit card, you show your ID......but suddenly free choice is lost when pulling out your health insurance.......why?

 

[Hawk Dork]

For that very reason, schools should provide lunch free of charge to all students.

Some parents are deadset shitstains.

Its strange Australia doesnt do this
US UK and I imagine lots of other countries do this

 

[twotooto]

1) not preclude all public health, rather allow the health department to allocate resources (like triage) which may preclude certain cover.
2) obtain important health date for science

3) if it is Ok to shut down an entire global economy to protect those with underlying health issues, most lifestyle related in the west.......this highlights the linkage between resources and lifestyle

4) sure add all controlled substances to the process, such as alcohol, for health and compliance to regulation

You want to throw alcohol on there as well? **** me what would be the point of even living?

What sort of outcomes are you hoping for with this spewtopian vision of yours>>??

 

[Hawk Dork]

You want to throw alcohol on there as well? fu** me what would be the point of even living?

What sort of outcomes are you hoping for with this spewtopian vision of yours>>??

surely there needs to be a regular visit to a church hall too

 

[Gough]

You want to throw alcohol on there as well? fu** me what would be the point of even living?

What sort of outcomes are you hoping for with this spewtopian vision of yours>>??

Everyone works for Gina Reinhart at $2 an hour.

 

[Power Raid]

You want to throw alcohol on there as well? fu** me what would be the point of even living?

What sort of outcomes are you hoping for with this spewtopian vision of yours>>??

I just find it interesting that people are comfortable to pay money to put themselves at risk DYING OF CANCER or related smoking disease. Something that is 3 TIMES MORE DEADLY THAN COVID.

Yet we are happy to shut down the world for one but not happy to swipe a medicare card for the other.

So people are happy to spend money to kill themselves but when it comes to health, they suddenly catch no accountability. Hmmm

 

[Hawk Dork]

I just find it interesting that people are comfortable to pay money to put themselves at risk DYING OF CANCER or related smoking disease. Something that is 3 TIMES MORE DEADLY THAN COVID.

Yet we are happy to shut down the world for one but not happy to swipe a medicare card for the other.

So people are happy to spend money to kill themselves but when it comes to health, they suddenly catch no accountability. Hmmm

One of the main killers is suicide
I imagine governments putting draconian measures on people to get a basic safety net wouldnt be helping

 

[Power Raid]

Everyone works for Gina Reinhart at $2 an hour.

get off the bongs Gough

I'm pro substantially increasing the dole and pro not reducing company tax.

Put down the bongs and see the world for its beauty rather than the hatred you carry. Oh and stop blowing smoke in peoples faces, they may be beautiful people despite what your drug induced reality has you believe.

 

[EDFL follower]

it's piss weak that we don't ask people to swipe their medicare card when buying cigarettes

people should be free to smoke (subject to third party inhalation) but they shouldn't be covered for public health relating to disease related to smoking

Yeah good call. I agree with this.

 

[Power Raid]

One of the main killers is suicide
I imagine governments putting draconian measures on people to get a basic safety net wouldnt be helping

suicide as a massive issue

increasing the dole and creating "participation for the dole" would greatly help people engage with others. However we know this impacts the rich, the poor, the young, the old and each seem to have very different drivers.

stress, loneliness, rejection and no hope are likely something they all share deep down.

 

[Frank Bunn]

One of the main killers is suicide
I imagine governments putting draconian measures on people to get a basic safety net wouldnt be helping

All you currently have to do is sign into the Centrelink website once a fortnight and click a couple of boxes. That's not very draconian.

 

[Hawk Dork]

All you currently have to do is sign into the Centrelink website once a fortnight and click a couple of boxes. That's not very draconian.

Give it time they know its a vote winner to punch down