Politics Centrelink

[Evolved1]

Is it really just a safety net?
Do you think it is OK that 8,000 people with cancer are on Jobseeker instead of the Disability Pension?

I don't know. Is there a reasonable explanation?

 

[Goroyals22]

Almost everyone on the dole has at some point worked, paid taxes and contributed to society or will do so in years ahead. You're damn right it's a ******* right.

The dole isn’t a right.. unfortunately there is a percentage who thinks it is and they become professionals at living off the dole and have no wish to move off it.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The dole isn’t a right.. unfortunately there is a percentage who thinks it is and they become professionals at living off the dole and have no wish to move off it.

As opposed to JSPs getting paid to not help people find jobs?

They are the real dole bludgers.

 

[Over The Post]

The dole isn’t a right.. unfortunately there is a percentage who thinks it is and they become professionals at living off the dole and have no wish to move off it.

So treat the 99.9% like scum, just to vindictively get back at the 0.1% who game the system, and funnel hundreds of millions more to the for-profit JSPs.

Workforce Australia job agencies rake in millions more from training contracts

Department of employment intended to ban practice before reversing course after ‘strong feedback’ from industry

www.theguardian.com

 

[HPKS]

As opposed to JSPs getting paid to not help people find jobs?

They are the real dole bludgers.

Let’s not forget the negative gearing so investors don’t pay a cent in taxes or the company that employs family members and gets them a car under lease that we pay for or the company that flys to Asia for “business” that we as taxpayers basically end up paying for just like everything else we end paying for them. It’s normally the ones gaming the tax system that are usually the biggest free loaders of our tax system. And then the dimwits have the nerve to piss n moan about people on the dole. If it’s so dam good why don’t the tax free loaders park their lazy ass on unemployment benefits and see how great it is.

 

[Number37]

I don't know. Is there a reasonable explanation?

The reasonable explanation according to the Secretary of the Department in Senate Estimates is; "most of them don't have any mutual obligations, I think, I'll have to check".

What sort of "safety net" doesn't kick in when people have cancer?

 

[Chief]

The dole isn’t a right

Yes it is.

 

[Number37]

The dole isn’t a right.. unfortunately there is a percentage who thinks it is and they become professionals at living off the dole and have no wish to move off it.

The Social Security Act 1991 makes a whole lot of govt payments a right. A right that can be enforced by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal and the Federal Court if needed.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

I feel like the amount of energy and resources committed towards allowing as few as possible to claim the dole with no intentions of ever working again is really not worth the outcome. The dole is such a shitty way to live that anybody who has made their mind up that they're just never going to work again is probably not fit to be employed anyway. You can probably group them into two categories; the ones who consistently fail at any job they ever tried and the ones that are content to live the shitty lifestyle that comes with receiving $550 a fortnight.

I remember a project I was on a few years back that took on one labourer that had been out of work for years as part of some government scheme to help the unemployed; lasted two weeks without showing up on time once before deciding to take the rest of the week off to go on a drug binge. Zero output, zero benefit to his employer, zero net value from his JSP or whatever back avenue he took placing him with us.

Controversial opinion but I would rather pay for people like this to **** off and sit at home just so I don't need to encounter them in the workforce or in public life in general. If it means some of them get to sit on the coach all day with no other responsibilities to society then so be it, they're probably more productive in that situation anyway.

Yet, by placing the microscope on these people you inadvertently inconvenience the majority of others who are temporarily out of work and legitimately looking to make a contribution.

 

[yodellinhank]

The reasonable explanation according to the Secretary of the Department in Senate Estimates is; "most of them don't have any mutual obligations, I think, I'll have to check".

What sort of "safety net" doesn't kick in when people have cancer?

Pretty broad group, "people who have cancer".

 

[Gralin]

I feel like the amount of energy and resources committed towards allowing as few as possible to claim the dole with no intentions of ever working again is really not worth the outcome. The dole is such a shitty way to live that anybody who has made their mind up that they're just never going to work again is probably not fit to be employed anyway. You can probably group them into two categories; the ones who consistently fail at any job they ever tried and the ones that are content to live the shitty lifestyle that comes with receiving $550 a fortnight.

I remember a project I was on a few years back that took on one labourer that had been out of work for years as part of some government scheme to help the unemployed; lasted two weeks without showing up on time once before deciding to take the rest of the week off to go on a drug binge. Zero output, zero benefit to his employer, zero net value from his JSP or whatever back avenue he took placing him with us.

Controversial opinion but I would rather pay for people like this to * off and sit at home just so I don't need to encounter them in the workforce or in public life in general. If it means some of them get to sit on the coach all day with no other responsibilities to society then so be it, they're probably more productive in that situation anyway.

Yet, by placing the microscope on these people you inadvertently inconvenience the majority of others who are temporarily out of work and legitimately looking to make a contribution.

The system is punitive on purpose, they talk about fraud and dole bludgers to give them a reason to treat everyone like shit

 

[Father Jack]

The dole isn’t a right.. unfortunately there is a percentage who thinks it is and they become professionals at living off the dole and have no wish to move off it.

Not dying in the street is a right, and the dole is a way of preventing that, so on that basis I'm going to say that the dole is a right. I also think that your professional dole bludger is largely a figment of the conservative imagination. How many people do you know have given up a career or a job to sit at home living in poverty on the dole? Not many I'd reckon, it doesn't sound much fun to me.

 

[NSWCROW]

Not dying in the street is a right, and the dole is a way of preventing that, so on that basis I'm going to say that the dole is a right. I also think that your professional dole bludger is largely a figment of the conservative imagination. How many people do you know have given up a career or a job to sit at home living in poverty on the dole? Not many I'd reckon, it doesn't sound much fun to me.

BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[FRUMPY]

Not dying in the street is a right, and the dole is a way of preventing that, so on that basis I'm going to say that the dole is a right. I also think that your professional dole bludger is largely a figment of the conservative imagination. How many people do you know have given up a career or a job to sit at home living in poverty on the dole? Not many I'd reckon, it doesn't sound much fun to me.

I just watched romper stomper the other day, they were all on the dole.....[emoji1787]

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Goroyals22]

Not dying in the street is a right, and the dole is a way of preventing that, so on that basis I'm going to say that the dole is a right. I also think that your professional dole bludger is largely a figment of the conservative imagination. How many people do you know have given up a career or a job to sit at home living in poverty on the dole? Not many I'd reckon, it doesn't sound much fun to me.

Well actually that is a right.. IF you chose to be homeless and chose to die on the the street that is tour choice therefore your right..

How many have I encountered who prefer life on the dole to anything else?? Many unfortunately…. One gentleman who was happy enough to collect the dole but wished to remain off the grid because he believed people were after him from a Qld royal commission in the 90s..

Another who was a professional student who at aged mid 40s had never held a job but had a page full of courses he had done through online and tafe never using them but at last count had 5 kids with one partner and that sustained his lifestyle…

The sad thing is a lot of people save (somehow) a lot more money on the dole than they do working where the lose their concession or healthcare card and they have to pay real price for things so they don’t bother..

The other depressing situation is where you have parents who have been on the dole and now their kids are also receiving it because they know no better.. its terribly sad where you deal with mother then daughter or what not from the same family because they cant (or wont) break the cycle of receiving benefits.

The real issues with Jsps are they are understaffed for what peoples expectations are and the 95% of people who actually do the right thing and want your help getting a job is effected by the 5% who are unengaged and disinterested who take up the majority of your time by having to enforce compliance measures on them.

 

[Gralin]

So you ignore the 95% of people that want help to be a cop to the 5% that don't
Our tax dollars at work

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

So you ignore the 95% of people that want help to be a cop to the 5% that don't
Our tax dollars at work

And of course, I'm sure there are strong productivity gains to be had for the wider economy by forcing redundant accountants, lawyers and economists to pretend to be interested in doing stock jobs in warehouses for the few weeks until they find a new job in their previous profession.

 

[Over The Post]

They can apply for them but they won't get them because they don't have 3 years experience in warehousing/logistics or a forklift licence.

If they are serious about working they can go to a labour hire company affiliated to the JSP and go and lift boxes as an on-call casual.

Anyone reading this thread knows how cynical and jaded I am about the whole JSP thing, but there's no call for a pile-on on Goroyals22 . Burn the system, not those trying to do a job within (unless they deserve it).

 

[Goroyals22]

So you ignore the 95% of people that want help to be a cop to the 5% that don't
Our tax dollars at work

Thats not what people ( least alone those working for the JSPS ) want to happen but unfortunately thats what you are forced to do….

 

[Gralin]

Thats not what people ( least alone those working for the JSPS ) want to happen but unfortunately thats what you are forced to do….

Yeah forced, sure.....you should stop pretending

 

[Goroyals22]

Yeah forced, sure.....you should stop pretending

Well of course you would know

 

[Crankyhawk]

Almost everyone on the dole has at some point worked, paid taxes and contributed to society or will do so in years ahead. You're damn right it's a ******* right.

It’s also easier to justify now as they are paying taxes via GST

 

[Crankyhawk]

Is it really just a safety net?
Do you think it is OK that 8,000 people with cancer are on Jobseeker instead of the Disability Pension?

Depends on the cancer and the degree of disability for mine.

 

[Number37]

Depends on the cancer and the degree of disability for mine.

The only between difference between someone on Jobseeker with no mutual obligations and someone on Disability Pension is the amount they get.
All that does is put people in a position where they are unable to afford to get themselves into better health and capable of working.
Couple it with all the changes to Medicare, the problem is getting worse.

Community legal centres, who aim to help these types of people, have been overwhelmed in the last 5 years with people looking for help because JSPs and Centrelink don't GAF. The LNP have also stacked the AAT with their cronies, making it even harder for people to get a fair go.
2 people with exactly the same circumstances can get 2 different outcomes. AAT doesn't allow precedent.
The system is stacked against people genuinely in need of govt assistance. All justified by pointing the finger at a small number of "dole bludgers".

 

[Number37]

So you ignore the 95% of people that want help to be a cop to the 5% that don't
Our tax dollars at work

They're a cop to the 5% (more like 1%) by sending them off to what is nothing more than adult day care, run by one of their stooges, at exhorbitant cost to the taxpayer.