Society & Culture Challenging a 'Drunk in a Public Place' fine.

[radiojake]

Does Melbourne actually have that big of a drinking culture?

I haven't spent much time in Melbourne but it seemed if anything that people were more sober than in Perth

When I first moved to Melbourne 6 years ago there was a fairly concerted agenda from the media/herald sun that Melbourne had a 'Violence Epidemic' - I thought it was odd as I felt a lot safer going out at night in Melbourne than I ever did in Adelaide. In Adelaide, you'd have people throw shit at you and yell out of cars constantly and call you a 'freak' or '******' etc - I remember on Hindley St one night there was five of us who copped a beating from these massive meatheads who said we were 'emo ******s' because we were all wearing black jeans.

I've never had this problem in Melbourne, and I think there is a couple of reasons for it. Firstly, there are 'freaks' everywhere in Melbourne, so much so that it's just a common sight and so they are less of a target. Secondly, in Adelaide, if you go out at night, there is pretty much just one strip to go to - Hindley St/Rundle St - Everyone goes there, and therefore it's harder to avoid jerks.

In Melbourne, if I don't want to get bashed at night, a good start is to avoid King St, and then you are pretty much sorted.

 

[GoalSneak38]

Yeah. Taken into custody and fined just for being drunk. If I was drunk & disorderly then fair cop, but being drunk? It's a rubbish law that I think needs to be seriously looked at with a view to be taken off the books.

Mate I got pinched a few years back walking to the train station on my own as I knew I had too much and was heading home. They were doing a big sting that weekend on King St. and I had to walk across it to get to Southern Cross

 

[And_ROOS]

Does Melbourne actually have that big of a drinking culture?

I haven't spent much time in Melbourne but it seemed if anything that people were more sober than in Perth

Its basically a tax on those who get tipsy. Every time i see someone get pinched on this they are tipsy, they are never black out drunk.

Its an easy target for their quota.

 

[Caesar]

That is not good legal advice.

 

[RU486]

That is not good legal advice.

What advice did I give?

What legal advice would you give? Your a smart guy so I'm genuinely interested as to what your thoughts are.

 

[Caesar]

My thoughts are that contesting a charge in relation to a strict liability offence you actually committed is not a decision to take lightly. It shouldn't be done simply as a matter of course, and it certainly shouldn't be done at the behest of a stranger on the internet.

 

[Coconut_twirl]

Does Melbourne actually have that big of a drinking culture?

I haven't spent much time in Melbourne but it seemed if anything that people were more sober than in Perth

I can't comment, as I don't live there. I would say that the media have blown this issue up to make it bigger than what it actually is.

 

[Silent Alarm]

To be honest, I haven't heard too many news outlets go on about Melbourne's drinking culture. Can't say I read or watch too much of the big media, though. Having an agenda against Australia's favourite past time isn't going to sell too many papers.

But to be honest, the notion of these king-hit hotspots is blown out of proportion. Train stations at 11pm and Northbridge were always seen as the places you hang if you want a punch up. But I never got in anything resembling a fight, a bad look, or the feeling that it was about to kick off. There are no doubt dickheads around, though.

Melbourne is the best place in Australia to go out in. I haven't been on the grog in Sydney, but anecdotally, King street is safer than King's Cross.

When I first moved to Melbourne 6 years ago there was a fairly concerted agenda from the media/herald sun that Melbourne had a 'Violence Epidemic' - I thought it was odd as I felt a lot safer going out at night in Melbourne than I ever did in Adelaide. In Adelaide, you'd have people throw shit at you and yell out of cars constantly and call you a 'freak' or '******' etc - I remember on Hindley St one night there was five of us who copped a beating from these massive meatheads who said we were 'emo ******s' because we were all wearing black jeans.

I've never had this problem in Melbourne, and I think there is a couple of reasons for it. Firstly, there are 'freaks' everywhere in Melbourne, so much so that it's just a common sight and so they are less of a target. Secondly, in Adelaide, if you go out at night, there is pretty much just one strip to go to - Hindley St/Rundle St - Everyone goes there, and therefore it's harder to avoid jerks.

In Melbourne, if I don't want to get bashed at night, a good start is to avoid King St, and then you are pretty much sorted.

Yep, I agree with all of this.

Northbridge isn't as bad as it used to be. Some hipster bars like the Bird and Ezra Pound started up, and the real meathead holes seem to be in the city (not too far away, but distinct enough, for non-Sandgropers). But there's no real centralised location. Even traditionally more 'cool' places like Freo and Leederville attract some real shitheads and questionable chicks. I don't know. But there's no real distinction between a place to buy shit eccies and dance to bad music, and a suburb full of bars with good atmosphere and no punch ups.

Which, is what happens in Melbs.

The people who are more likely to start punch ups and who actively seek them out are generally in the city. When you venture to Fitzroy (and Collingwood/Carlton) and Brunny, you're not really going to get that vibe. The bars get a different clientele: young professionals, students, and trendy young punks. I would sooner hipsters than juiced up w***ers and chicks stumbling in their high heels – absolutely.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Does Melbourne actually have that big of a drinking culture?

I haven't spent much time in Melbourne but it seemed if anything that people were more sober than in Perth

I guess that means the law works

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

STILL haven't heard anything back. I reckon they've either acknowledged the letter and dropped it quietly or I've fallen through the cracks in the system.

I'm not gonna poke the bear either. Gonna let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[ajlaw9]

It's odd that you haven't received a reply. I once contested a "Drinking in public" fine despite being clearly guilty. I took a drink with me out of a nightclub and a cop was outside. In my letter I simply said that I forgot I was holding it, I was not behaving in an improper manner and that I cooperated fully with the officer. They wrote back to me and waived the fine.

 

[Gasometer]

STILL haven't heard anything back. I reckon they've either acknowledged the letter and dropped it quietly or I've fallen through the cracks in the system.

I'm not gonna poke the bear either. Gonna let sleeping dogs lie.

Was there a due date that you had to pay the fine?

Does that go on your criminal record?

Were you in the lock up with other prisoners...and were you shit scared?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Due date was mid-March. Don't think I'll get a record as I haven't actually been convicted of anything NOR paid the fine. The drunk tank at the City Watch House isn't really a prison cell. It's a large windowless room, off-white in colour with a solid bench and a lidless metal toilet & sink in one corner. Shared it with three guys at the most, one of whom was brought in unconscious and stayed that way the whole time I was there.

The other guys were cool. Swapped stories and all agreed we were shafted by The Filth. Hope they got off too, and live to drink another day.

Still haven't heard anything from the relevant authorities, by the way. And I don't want to.

 

[Freakie]

Wow so much ignorance in one thread. The ticket you received will have instructions on how to challenge the ticket.

 

[Team Mo']

I too was conned by the fine collection of power tripping Melbourne police.

I was 18 years old, leaving a nightclub to get to the taxi rank which is literally at the front door of the club. I walk outside and see one of my mates sitting on the gutter with his head in his lap and a policewoman over the top of him. I walk over and try to pick him up but the police lady tells me to leave me alone and then her attention is onto me all of a sudden. I try to tell her that my mate is fine and I'll just get him home with me in the cab.

My mate then stands up and is probably 2 metres behind me and the police woman when she asks for my ID. I give it to her no worries thinking shes just checking my name and what not when all of a sudden 2 divvy vans rock and 6 police men walk over to me. One of them grabs me and says "Do you know why your under arrest?" I was in complete shock. I didn't even think that I was any chance of getting arrested. Then all of a sudden with 1 minute of walking out of a nightclub ready to go home I'm in the back of a van by myself scared shitless. I'm thrown into a white cell with no explanation of what is going on and how long I'll be here for. I can't ring my parents, I can't do anything.

I then wake up after falling asleep to find two massive Africans just sitting there staring at me. (Thankfully my pants were still on.) After about 6 or 7 hours I'm told to I can go and I think thats the end of it. No of course the same 600 buck is slapped on the table and I'm still none the wiser as to what I've actually done wrong in the first place. There is no room for argument and I didn't even think about fighting it so I relucatantly paid it in full.


2 days later I'm watching some police show and a bloke is pulled over for drunk driving, speeding and no seat belt. He gets a $400 fine and is free to leave once his blood sample is taken! I would have been better off driving home from the nightclub then taxi a taxi!!!

I still hold a grudge to that **** of a female cop who locked me up.



edit: Oh and my mate, he simply was left to walk away and now has photos of me getting thrown into a cop van. Prick.

 

[RU486]

Do not pay without going to court. Have a well organised file with all the documents in it, make copies of everything and have them signed off by a JP. Create a STAT DEC sharing your version of events and again have this signed off by a JP.

Notice how they said 'appreciated', it is well within your rights and will not impact upon your case if you do no not comply with this instruction. I would just ignore it, but if your concerned you could possibly ring a helpline and get further information (keep a record of conversation).

If they still insist you pay the fine and you receive a fine, challenge it no matter what. Represent yourself, court costs are very low (around $60).

 

[magic_johnson!]

Similarly, had a mate who got a fine for throwing up in a private place.
This private place was his brother's apartment driveway in St Kilda, and apparently because it's a shared driveway there is reason for a hefty fine. He fought and got off, but still...

 

[stanga]

got busted pissing on a supermarket wall in berwick , fine was about 180 i think for being offensive and behaving in a riotous or disorderly manner, all i remember is them being polite enough to let me finish my pee

 

[Power Raid]

got busted pissing on a supermarket wall in berwick , fine was about 180 i think for being offensive and behaving in a riotous or disorderly manner, all i remember is them being polite enough to let me finish my pee

it is a bit dangerous to try and fine someone midstream. There is no need to put one self in the line of fire needlessly.

 

[Hot Pocket]

When I first moved to Melbourne 6 years ago there was a fairly concerted agenda from the media/herald sun that Melbourne had a 'Violence Epidemic' - I thought it was odd as I felt a lot safer going out at night in Melbourne than I ever did in Adelaide. In Adelaide, you'd have people throw shit at you and yell out of cars constantly and call you a 'freak' or '******' etc - I remember on Hindley St one night there was five of us who copped a beating from these massive meatheads who said we were 'emo ******s' because we were all wearing black jeans.

I've never had this problem in Melbourne, and I think there is a couple of reasons for it. Firstly, there are 'freaks' everywhere in Melbourne, so much so that it's just a common sight and so they are less of a target. Secondly, in Adelaide, if you go out at night, there is pretty much just one strip to go to - Hindley St/Rundle St - Everyone goes there, and therefore it's harder to avoid jerks.

In Melbourne, if I don't want to get bashed at night, a good start is to avoid King St, and then you are pretty much sorted.

It was a media beat up to try and oust the Labor government.

Baillieu came in and drastically increased police numbers (but actual crime grew), and brought in laws allowing police to bypass our civil rights in certain areas of the CBD (i.e. they can stop and search anyone without any probably cause).

Then the media made the whole 'epidemic' disappear.

There are some outer suburban pubs that are legitimately scary for the unitiated, but generally in Melbourne people just know how to get along. Its not a city like Perth where you need to have a narrow idea of a good night (i.e. "Well I didn't pick up, so a fight is the only way to prove my manhood!").

That's the difference between an historically socialist city (Melbourne) and an historically capitalist one (Perth).

 

[Brad Goodman]

That's the difference between an historically socialist city (Melbourne) and an historically capitalist one (Perth).

What's the link?

 

[Hot Pocket]

What's the link?

What link? Link of what?

Look at Melbourne's history, its always been about unions, collectiveness etc. and acceptance.

Perth is... well its a haven for racist Brits and South Africans. There's a very strong capitalist vibe to the place, very money focused, very individualistic.

 

[Brad Goodman]

What link? Link of what?

Look at Melbourne's history, its always been about unions, collectiveness etc. and acceptance.

Perth is... well its a haven for racist Brits and South Africans. There's a very strong capitalist vibe to the place, very money focused, very individualistic.

How that leads to violence. Seems a tenuous link?

 

[Power Raid]

What link? Link of what?

Look at Melbourne's history, its always been about unions, collectiveness etc. and acceptance.

Perth is... well its a haven for racist Brits and South Africans. There's a very strong capitalist vibe to the place, very money focused, very individualistic.

You do know the white australia policy was a product of those wonderful victorians who hated chinese? Gotta love those collective and accepting (as long as you are white) victorians.

You do know WA despised the bigotry of victorians and wanted to secede but the victorian unions undermined democracy and stacked the vote, tried to steal Kalgoorlie and even made a pitch to the queen to take WA's key assets? Gotta love the fair play by victorians!

may be take of those rose coloured glasses for a moment and see the filth that comes out of elements of victoria. We all have those elements but it seems as if you have selected eye sight.

Being victorian, I have to ask, do you vote for a fringe group like the national front or the greens?

 

[Hot Pocket]

You do know the white australia policy was a product of those wonderful victorians who hated chinese? Gotta love those collective and accepting (as long as you are white) victorians.

I'm not saying Victoria is some kind of racially harmonious utopia.

But it was collective will at the time, based on protectionism. Nothing wrong with being against cheap foreign labour, outsourced or insourced.

You do know WA despised the bigotry of victorians and wanted to secede but the victorian unions undermined democracy and stacked the vote, tried to steal Kalgoorlie and even made a pitch to the queen to take WA's key assets? Gotta love the fair play by victorians!

The ruling class in Victoria are pricks - Bailleiu family in particular. Melbourne was the original Perth (goldrush days) and the British influence is still very strong (87% of our mining profits go to British and American companies, owned by British and American rich bastards) in Australia as a whole. Except Melbournians and Sydneysiders realised the scam over a hundred years ago and were two of the first cities in the world (Sydney was actually THE first I believe) to win an 8 hour day, decriminalise changing employers, annual leave, sick leave etc.

When you look at the key cities worldwide in the history of social democratic policy, Melbourne and Sydney are right up there with Moscow and Paris.

WA never had any business being part of Australia, I completely agree. The cultural gap is astronomical between the east coast cities and Perth. Its like another planet.

may be take of those rose coloured glasses for a moment and see the filth that comes out of elements of victoria. We all have those elements but it seems as if you have selected eye sight.

No. I spend a lot of time in both Melbourne and Perth, there is a world of difference in the behaviour of people in both cities.

Melbourne certainly has crime if that's what you are saying. Its a global/regional hub for a tonne of different organised crime groups. But for getting king hit and the like, its less likely (the outer burbs can get pretty wild though).

Being victorian, I have to ask, do you vote for a fringe group like the national front or the greens?

I vote ALP. The Greens are hardly a 'fringe' group though, nothing like the National Front.

Who do you vote for, while we're sharing?

I know WA people are very sensitive, I wasn't trying to upset anyone. They're just different states with vastly different histories. WA has more of a 'frontier' type vibe, bigger on individual responsibility (yet surprisingly much less tolerant of individuality). Melbourne has more of a communal vibe to it.

If WA workers were intelligent, they'd unionise properly and start their own version of the 'White Australia' policy based around reducing the numbers of cheap 457 labour coming in to work the mines and undercutting Australian wages. Likewise they'd be fighting for increased (not slashed) TAFE spending so that more Aussies could actually get the skills that Gina keeps saying aren't available in the Aussie labour market.

But we're getting into SRP territory. All I can say is, Perth has more of an arrogant, self absorbed culture to it than Melbourne. I agree Melbourne crims are a lot more serious than Perth crims, and our bad eggs are a lot worse. But on the whole, Melbourne has a much more accepting, tolerant and friendly nightlife scene. FIFO brings out the worst in people too.