Unofficial Preview Changes & discussion v the Hawks @ MCG after our Sabbatical.

[McIvor]

Totally agree with Rayner as the 3rd tall. Give him the permanent role.

Don't mind who comes in out of Ah Chee and Lohmann. I'd always have a spot in the 22 somewhere for Ah Chee.

Not unhappy with Fort for Gunston . Or anybody really.

How quite a few others get games over Ah Chee is completely beyond me. Depends how you look at it, but its either favouritism or bias.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Lester's had a couple of good weeks, but he dropped two relatively straight forward marks that essentially led directly to Adelaide goals.

I do agree Lester's urgency and involvement was better than Andrews'.

I don't have a preference between Lester or Gardiner, but I don't think either was significantly better than the other tonight.

Wet night - players are going to drop marks and other players were involved in the passages after the marks were dropped. What Lester didn’t do was:

• give away a free kick in front of goal like Zorko (Goal Adelaide)
• give away a 50 metre penalty in the goal square like Andrews, (Goal Adelaide),
• cough up a dinky little kick in front of goals like Starcevich (Goal Adelaide)
• stand flat footed and completely fail to compete in the air against Thilthotpe like McInerney, Andrews, Starcevich and Coleman (Goal Adelaide)

He did drop two marks though, in a game where he had more tackles and pressure acts than any other defender. I think he should be safe against Hawthorn.

Nothing Lester did tonight on the negative side of his ledger came close to the egregious lapses mentioned above.

 

[JasRulz63]

Wet night - players are going to drop marks and other players were involved in the passages after the marks were dropped. What Lester didn’t do was:

• give away a free kick in front of goal like Zorko (Goal Adelaide)
• give away a 50 metre penalty in the goal square like Andrews, (Goal Adelaide),
• cough up a dinky little kick in front of goals like Starcevich (Goal Adelaide)
• stand flat footed and completely fail to compete in the air against Thilthotpe like McInerney, Andrews, Starcevich and Coleman (Goal Adelaide)

He did drop two marks though, in a game where he had more tackles and pressure acts than any other defender. I think he should be safe against Hawthorn.

Nothing Lester did tonight on the negative side of his ledger came close to the egregious lapses mentioned above.

That also says Gardiner didn't do much wrong either though. Hence no real preference between the two.

 

[buttermuffs]

Fagan has to get sentimentality out of his decision making - it is costing this group. I get that he wants the likes of Zorko, Rich, Gunston and Gardiner a flag, but surely if its detrimental to the club winning one, then as you said, tough calls need to be made.

I want Gunston and Berry out - both are terrible, but they are also just about Fagan's biggest pets. Fagan will want Gunston playing against Hawthorn at the G b/c of the sentimentality of it, so I think we are going to be disappointed if we are expecting him to be dropped.

Berry on the other hand, needs to be dropped. One good game every other month just isnt good enough and is one of those guys just too comfortable at the club and why he is exempt from being dropped is beyond me. I agree with 3KZ I think who said Hugh is not a mid and should be played excsively as a mid. Bring in Dev as a mid.

I honestly thought we'd adopt a Geelong season 22 policy with our team selection but I sense disappointingly that Fagan wants everyone playing as much as possible.

Out - Rich, Madden, McCarthy, Berry, Gardiner (dropped) and Zorko to the sub - Gunston should be dropped but wont versus HAwks
In - Prior, Robertson, Lohmann, Ah Chee, Payne.

Not sure why Gardiner is mentioned in your first paragraph when he was literally only brought in because of Payne’s concussion. He played two VFL games it was clear that he wasn’t coming straight in.


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[McIvor]

I think the forward line could be re-jigged many ways but I honestly think Lester could be shifted forward in place of Gunston. Froggy has previously played up forward and would offer a darn site more than Jack has.

Personally, I think Cam should play as the third tall and Kai given a crack or even Ah Chee as a HFF.

The Gunston experiment should be called off. Its not working and I hope Jack is mature enough to not exercise his second year b/c he's completely off pace and isnt AFL standard anymore. In the very least, he takes up a list spot and is played exclusively in the reserves as an on-field assistant coach. That being said, I fully expect him to play against his old side next week and if he is, I hope Fagan says to him, show us something, if not you're relegated to the twos for any extended period only playing home games.

 

[3KZ is Football]

That also says Gardiner didn't do much wrong either though. Hence no real preference between the two.

Gardiner:
8 Disposals, 2 Tackles, 7 Pressure Acts

Lester:
10 Disposals, 4 Tackles, 14 Pressure Acts.

Lester had a better game than Gardiner. He had twice as many Tackles and twice as many Pressure Acts. Gardiner had a single disposal and ZERO tackles to half time.

 

[JasRulz63]

Gardiner:
8 Disposals, 2 Tackles, 7 Pressure Acts

Lester:
10 Disposals, 4 Tackles, 14 Pressure Acts.

Lester had a better game than Gardiner. He had twice as many Tackles and twice as many Pressure Acts. Gardiner had a single disposal and ZERO tackles to half time.

To be honest, I thought they were both poor and neither was really that much better than the other. Lester had more tackles and pressure acts, but also made a couple of crucial mistakes leading to goals. I can't recall Gardiner doing anything particularly diabolical, but he didn't get involve in the defensive aspects as you mentioned above.

Either way I don't think selection for the next game will be based on either's performance in this one.

 

[mpal6]

Dizzy will play as third tall after bye. Payne will replace Lester.

Rich will settle in defense and find some form so Wilmot will continue to play wing, running back.

Gunston is someone Fagan brought over so like it or not, he'll play forward.

Rest of the usual suspects will pick themselves so this will be Fagan's best 22 for 2023 at this stage, barring injuries.

 

[Squizz89]

You'd be pretty disappointed if your name was Devon, Jaxon, Callum, or Darcy (Fort) seeing your name constantly recycled in and out of the senior team, when some of the other senior players who seem to be performing no better at that level, consistently remain.

With that in mind I'd assume the only change will be to the sub, with Madden going out, unless there are any injuries we aren't aware of.

No way Gunston gets dropped, even more so against his old team.

Edit. Payne obviously comes back in if he's ok, in which case I'd take out Lester.

 

[Nunez]

In: Lohmann, Fullarton/Fort, Payne
Out: Gardiner/Lester, Rich, Gunston

Payne in for either suit me. When Gardiner is fully fit and in form he'll be my preference though.

Gunston will likely stay in, but don't think he can afford another month of sub par football. Will be replaced by a tall.

Lohmann in for Rich, however not to play back. I'd be rotating Zorko onto the half back line when Kiddy, Darcy or McKenna need a break and using Lohmann as a high half forward & use the bye to get him ready to spend a little time on the wing. Just need to get a talent like that on the ground and think he has enough of a tank to get moments on the wing.

Sharp was very impressive in the VFL and thought we missed his two way running last night, so not adverse to bringing him back in too.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Not sure what to do with Rich. He’ll always hurt us on transition if the opposition doesn’t have a slow, small forward. Although in that clip Kingy showed all our defenders were trailing their opponents. We need all the good kicks we have in the team

 

[The Flying Belgian]

You'd be pretty disappointed if your name was Devon, Jaxon, Callum, or Darcy (Fort) seeing your name constantly recycled in and out of the senior team, when some of the other senior players who seem to be performing no better at that level, consistently remain.

With that in mind I'd assume the only change will be to the sub, with Madden going out, unless there are any injuries we aren't aware of.

No way Gunston gets dropped, even more so against his old team.

Edit. Payne obviously comes back in if he's ok, in which case I'd take out Lester.

It's an easy trap to fall into I think, equating reserves form with senior form.

And I agree that some of those consistent performers in the twos probably merit a callup

While the allure of Rayner playing as a tall forward in place of Gunston is high, I wouldn't be surprised if the forward line as a whole plays worse because of it. Is cam going to lead to the opposite pocket or lay subtle blocks to create space for the other forwards? While I've no doubt Cam is a team player, I don't think his footy IQ or completive instinct would deliver that all that effectively. There's likely many reasons our forward line has been working so well and as much as I've been underwhelmed with Gunston's output so far, I'm very open to the likelihood he's bringing a lot more to the table than is obvious. So yeah, I think he holds his place after the bye (now after all that watch him get dropped).

 

[martinson]

I don't think I've ever seen a player so far off the pace consistently in a good team as Gunston has been this year and I'm a bit bemused that others see him do things that he just doesn't and that he should hold his spot. Every time the ball hits the deck they just run off him as if he's not there. He does nothing else anyway. When we push up and it comes back our way he's miles off providing any spread and opponents sprint past him to cover.

Beats me totally.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I don't think I've ever seen a player so far off the pace consistently in a good team as Gunston has been this year and I'm a bit bemused that others see him do things that he just doesn't and that he should hold his spot. Every time the ball hits the deck they just run off him as if he's not there. He does nothing else anyway. When we push up and it comes back our way he's miles off providing any spread and opponents sprint past him to cover.

Beats me totally.

But he leads in the opposite direction to what Joe does...

 

[martinson]

But he leads in the opposite direction to what Joe does...

I know . Supposedly he leads in to space to take opponents away.

Well yesterday when it was clogged up in the 3rd was the perfect opportunity for him to do his elite lead into space thing and not once was he sighted.

Is he too smart for the rest of the team ?

I just think he's well below the level required for AFL and we have players not in the team who have been up to the level most times they've played.

 

[Elixuh]

Gunston is playing awful but will kick 2-3 goals in a finals match or two and win is those games. Bookmark it.

The H&A is just one big training session for old gunners. Bookmark it again.

 

[martinson]

Gunston is playing awful but will kick 2-3 goals in a finals match or two and win is those games. Bookmark it.

The H&A is just one big training session for old gunners. Bookmark it again.

I live in hope that he might do that any old week. If it's a training session just let him train and not cost us games we need to get there.

Sadly it's the same Gunners that was at the Hawks for the last half of last year. And if he kicks 2 or 3 it's the 3 or 4 that he costs you the other way that more than squares up the ledger.

He now gets outpaced on his own lead. That's another feature of his game that he's added.

 

[Nathan Barley]

I live in hope that he might do that any old week. If it's a training session just let him train and not cost us games we need to get there.

Sadly it's the same Gunners that was at the Hawks for the last half of last year. And if he kicks 2 or 3 it's the 3 or 4 that he costs you the other way that more than squares up the ledger.

He now gets outpaced on his own lead. That's another feature of his game that he's added.

There was one early on in the suns game where he was leading up to the footy and Ballard just ran around him and took the mark in front of him

 

[Nathan Barley]

Adding to the Gunston debate is that Hipwood is basically a role player and not getting too dangerous. Seems to be playing more in the McStay mould without taking as many contested marks.

I think there's room for a third tall to be more aggressive and hopefully be one of our more reliable set shots

 

[Elixuh]

I live in hope that he might do that any old week. If it's a training session just let him train and not cost us games we need to get there.

Sadly it's the same Gunners that was at the Hawks for the last half of last year. And if he kicks 2 or 3 it's the 3 or 4 that he costs you the other way that more than squares up the ledger.

He now gets outpaced on his own lead. That's another feature of his game that he's added.

Don’t doubt my boy gunners Martin, you’ve been warned!

 

[martinson]

Adding to the Gunston debate is that Hipwood is basically a role player and not getting too dangerous. Seems to be playing more in the McStay mould without taking as many contested marks.

I think there's room for a third tall to be more aggressive and hopefully be one of our more reliable set shots

I don't see that Fort is any slower than Gunston and he takes marks and is smarter inside . Just as a for instance. Rayner could be interesting in the set role , not that his set shots are anything flash. Ah Chee would offer a lot more defensively and more chance of kicking a goal or two imo.

 

[buttermuffs]

I know . Supposedly he leads in to space to take opponents away.

Well yesterday when it was clogged up in the 3rd was the perfect opportunity for him to do his elite lead into space thing and not once was he sighted.

Is he too smart for the rest of the team ?

I just think he's well below the level required for AFL and we have players not in the team who have been up to the level most times they've played.

I think I’ve been one of the main people talking about the leading to create space and everything. If he tried to do it yesterday then it very clearly didn’t work. He had done it well the past couple weeks but this was clearly one of the game where we actually needed it but it never came.

I will say that I still don’t see him being punished on the rebound with success, but I thought that I thought any other value he provided made up for his slow defensive run. It wasn’t there this week when it mattered so I’m happy to try something else now.

If we go Lohmann I think the main adjustment would be making sure we don’t bomb it high inside whenever Joe pinch hits in the ruck.


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[martinson]

Don’t doubt my boy gunners Martin, you’ve been warned!

I've had in my mind for some time that you ,Elixuh , are Fagan's burner account.

You know too much of what is going on.

And the same blind spot stubbornness of the old man.

I'm onto you.

 

[jjami15]

It was a tough night for marking, to be sure, but Harris was our worst defender by a mile, factoring in:
1. Giving away a 50 that led to a goal.
2. Only having 5 disposals for the game.
3. Having ZERO TACKLES.
4. Playing with no urgency or drive.

Mouthing off at everyone around him as well. Been doing it for ages.

 

[Elixuh]

I cant recall many of our entries yesterday being condusive to a smart leading forward.

I also think people saying that fort should come in as a permanent forward are severely overrating him.