Changes for next round

[Dunlop194]

Kreuzer is 18, he is in his first year of football and virtually comes up against men week in week out because of the nature of his most played position being the ruck.... What is the point of denting the kids confidence with only a 50-60% of game time like he got tonight. Send him to the 2's so he can build up some confidence and find his feet a little more. Let him get some constant feel for the sherrin... we want him dominating like Cox by next year not under achieving like Josh Fraser!

Don't put much pressure on the bloke will you. Kreuzer is 19... just.
But don't forget that Cox came from the rookie list and had to work for his standing in the game today. Just because Kreuzer was number one doesn't mean he will be dominating his second year... Give the guy a break. All big men need more time.
Fair enough he may need time in the seconds but that doesn't mean he will be the premier big man in the game next year like Cox is now.

 

[KarmaGeddon]

Kreuzer is 18, he is in his first year of football and virtually comes up against men week in week out because of the nature of his most played position being the ruck.... What is the point of denting the kids confidence with only a 50-60% of game time like he got tonight. Send him to the 2's so he can build up some confidence and find his feet a little more. Let him get some constant feel for the sherrin... we want him dominating like Cox by next year not under achieving like Josh Fraser!

I disagree. There are plenty of talented mature bodied men in the VFL as well.

Please don't compare him to Josh Fraser. We all know he is harder/faster and more determined. Let him slug it out.

 

[Sam The Doc]

He smashed Hawkins tonight, and he did a pretty good job on Pavlich last week. He's nowhere near being omitted from the team. I must have been watching a different game to you over the past 2 weeks.

pavlich was great last week,dunno how people can say he wasnt,was the one that kept em in it ...and hawkins hasnt done anything all year..na i think we went to the same games..we beat freo last wk and we got smashed today did u get to them games or were they different?

 

[Mentallo]

Russell!
You can't drop Russell!
Remember that mark he took 2 years ago and that kick he had that hit the target back in round 10 last year oh and what about that tackle in the Wizard Cup GF......................

Wiggins is just about done.
Either Kreuz or Hammo and gotta agree with others on Fisher. He is struggling atm but we do really butcher the ball into the forward line.
And then who do we bring in?
Hartlett or Edwards really need to put their hand up in the next 12 weeks or that will be packing their bags with a certain number 2 at the end of the season.

 

[KarmaGeddon]

He is not just a tackler - didn't you see last weeks game, he was able to rove to Sandilands and got heaps of clearances - you don't teach blokes how to get first touch at bounces, they have it or they don't. He is principally a handballer - feeds our seagulls (as CG puts it) but would have been a little disappointed in his kicking tonight

Five, I love you sticking up for the guy because you are right in the fact that he is a goer. But I don't believe he is penetrating enough.

How many bounces on the run does he do? Hoggy did heaps!

Handballs out of the clinch are great but I never see the bloke creating space running forward.

He's a one-string bandit.

 

[Cruiser23]

What is with all this Bentick hate floating around, he put's in 110% and get in and under unlike others. Very good tackler and not every player in our team needs to be quick but saying that, i do think we need to inject more pace.

I agree with people saying we need to give Kruezer a rest, give him a run in the Ant's for a week or so, get his confidence back because he's struggling at the moment.

OUT: Wiggins, Bower, Kruezer
IN: Waite, Pfeiffer, Anderson/Benjamin

Russell, i'll give him one more chance. Is quick and against Port, we need as much pace as possible with players like Rodan, Burgoyne, Pearce etc

If Bannister is fit, he has to come in, he'll give Chad more nightmares.

 

[len_jet]

Don't put much pressure on the bloke will you. Kreuzer is 19... just.
But don't forget that Cox came from the rookie list and had to work for his standing in the game today. Just because Kreuzer was number one doesn't mean he will be dominating his second year... Give the guy a break. All big men need more time.
Fair enough he may need time in the seconds but that doesn't mean he will be the premier big man in the game next year like Cox is now.

You emphasis the wrong point. The main point is he is getting 50-60% game time and has played 8 matches already in his first year in a position that is quite demanding on a young kid. He isn't getting much of the ball and if you actually what his centre bounce ruck work he seems to be a little timid

I have watched his ruck work closely the last few weeks... he looks at the other ruckman right up until the last second, he then tried to get the ride, but while he does this he looses track of the ball and doesn't win too many taps. It is as if they are trying to teach him to "get the ride", teaching him how to jump properly. The next obvious step would be to teach him the art of tapping to advantage. I think a week or two to practice this on a more frequent (say 75-90% game time) in the VFL would be a good call at this stage of the year.

 

[The Coach]

bentick to slow sorry great work ethic but the game has changed

He is not fleet of foot but I think he showed last week, he is better than what he showed tonight. He does however either possess a quick reaction time or else he is a great reader of ruckmen - that is how he gets his clearances and lays those tackles. I don't think the game will ever exclude men who can get in and under stoppages and have the guts to do it. Undoubtedly if they have other deficiencies - then they need complimentary players around them. Chris Judd is of course perfect

 

[len_jet]

Five, I love you sticking up for the guy because you are right in the fact that he is a goer. But I don't believe he is penetrating enough.

How many bounces on the run does he do? Hoggy did heaps!

Handballs out of the clinch are great but I never see the bloke creating space running forward.

He's a one-string bandit.

hold on...

you agree the bloke is a great tackler, he is a goer and no where have you contested the fact that he wins plenty of hardball and centre clearances...

then you justify him being dropped because he doesnt go on massive runs and takes bounces and because he doesn't get many frees for due to his tackles?

Have you every considered the direct turn overs from his tackles? What about the constant pressure in close to cause a spillage or a loose ball for our outside runners to swoop on to...

 

[Dunlop194]

You emphasis the wrong point. The main point is he is getting 50-60% game time and has played 8 matches already in his first year in a position that is quite demanding on a young kid. He isn't getting much of the ball and if you actually what his centre bounce ruck work he seems to be a little timid

I have watched his ruck work closely the last few weeks... he looks at the other ruckman right up until the last second, he then tried to get the ride, but while he does this he looses track of the ball and doesn't win too many taps. It is as if they are trying to teach him to "get the ride", teaching him how to jump properly. The next obvious step would be to teach him the art of tapping to advantage. I think a week or two to practice this on a more frequent (say 75-90% game time) in the VFL would be a good call at this stage of the year.

I think you will find that the last few weeks he has been up in the ruck against Charman and Sandilands. Between you and me, I would be looking at where the opposing ruckman is going also if I was up against those bigger frames. Charman is 5 Kg heavier and Sandilands only 26 Kg heavier. And to think he didn't win many taps against Sandilands at 11 centimetres differnece. He shouldn't play again.

My point is that why would you think that he would dominate like Cox next year when Cox took much more time to get where he is now???

 

[The Coach]

Five, I love you sticking up for the guy because you are right in the fact that he is a goer. But I don't believe he is penetrating enough.

How many bounces on the run does he do? Hoggy did heaps!

Handballs out of the clinch are great but I never see the bloke creating space running forward.

He's a one-string bandit.

He has been doing more of that - when he decided he was better than Palmer last week (my theory on why he played more positively) he got out on his own a lot and set up a couple of goals

There is a catch for AB in that when he does this he is not going to get to his man if there is a turnover. He either has to become a shadow of Diesel (I say shadow as we can only expect a poorer copy of course) and thus have a better tally on his side of the ledger or he has to choose carefully when to leave his man. This is a weakness but his great strength is one of the rarest in football and until you find us a couple of others to do it, ommitting AB will leave Juddy with a whole team to carry in this area.

 

[len_jet]

I think you will find that the last few weeks he has been up in the ruck against Charman and Sandilands. Between you and me, I would be looking at where the opposing ruckman is going also if I was up against those bigger frames. Charman is 5 Kg heavier and Sandilands only 26 Kg heavier. And to think he didn't win many taps against Sandilands at 11 centimetres differnece. He shouldn't play again.

My point is that why would you think that he would dominate like Cox next year when Cox took much more time to get where he is now???

The bigger frames argument then works in my favour... send him back to the VFL to play against the lighter less seasoned ruckman at that level and find his feet. Give him some more game time and let him roam free, find some footy and let him attempt to dominate at that level.

As for the Cox statement, it was virtually a passing comment, at 12am trying to think of analogies etc is beyond my brain. One thing is yes Cox was a rookie lister and took longer to come on. Kreuzer was dominating at TAC level, he came with high accolades and was very very highly regarded. Suggesting all that every player develops at their own pace however the head start Kreuzer had on Cox leads me to believe he can start having heavy influence on games much earlier than Cox did. Additionally he has shown some glimpses... i mean his first game was a corker, since then he has tapered off a bit and i think that is heavily effected by his game time.

send him to the VFL has a "refresher", not an omission just purely a "rest"

 

[Mr.Kennedy]

Pfeiffer in for Russell.Who should then struggle to get back in(ever)
Waite straight swap for Bower(Get well soon,I miss you already)
Hartlett or Edwards(Dont know why he was dropped in the first place)in
for Fisher.Just needs a run in the 2s to regain the hunger.
Anderson in for Carrazzo(Who I dont have any time for).Thats a back pocket for a back pocket


Kreuzer will have rest soon.Maybe not this week though.
I cant believe there are calls for Carlos to be dropped.

 

[Dunlop194]

The bigger frames argument then works in my favour... send him back to the VFL to play against the lighter less seasoned ruckman at that level and find his feet. Give him some more game time and let him roam free, find some footy and let him attempt to dominate at that level.

As for the Cox statement, it was virtually a passing comment, at 12am trying to think of analogies etc is beyond my brain. One thing is yes Cox was a rookie lister and took longer to come on. Kreuzer was dominating at TAC level, he came with high accolades and was very very highly regarded. Suggesting all that every player develops at their own pace however the head start Kreuzer had on Cox leads me to believe he can start having heavy influence on games much earlier than Cox did. Additionally he has shown some glimpses... i mean his first game was a corker, since then he has tapered off a bit and i think that is heavily effected by his game time.

send him to the VFL has a "refresher", not an omission just purely a "rest"

I understand where you are coming from but sending him back to take on slighter bodies in the ruck for the Bullants isn't going to help when he comes back in and faces the same big bodies again, no matter how many feet he has found. Fraser and Bryan in two weeks. Hille in Round 13 and Simmonds in 14.

Between you and me, I would like to see him as the third option behind Fev and Fish in the forward line with short spells in the ruck behind Cloke and Hampson.

 

[KarmaGeddon]

Well for this round most supporters had to change their underpants, so hopefully next week we can pull up our socks!

 

[jonoman89]

OUT: Kruezer (needs a rest and Hammo, Cloke set up works well for now), Bower (injured - such a pity, love this bloke)

IN: Waite, Pfieffer

If Hartlett goes well in the 2's this week i'd be tempted to chuck him in too.

 

[Silvagnis]

OUT: Kruezer (needs a rest and Hammo, Cloke set up works well for now), Bower (injured - such a pity, love this bloke)

IN: Waite, Pfieffer

If Hartlett goes well in the 2's this week i'd be tempted to chuck him in too.

The twos aren't playing this week.

 

[len_jet]

I understand where you are coming from but sending him back to take on slighter bodies in the ruck for the Bullants isn't going to help when he comes back in and faces the same big bodies again, no matter how many feet he has found. Fraser and Bryan in two weeks. Hille in Round 13 and Simmonds in 14.

Between you and me, I would like to see him as the third option behind Fev and Fish in the forward line with short spells in the ruck behind Cloke and Hampson.

I didnt look that far ahead. Good points re: the ruckmen he will come up against in the upcoming weeks...

I think he is well suited to be the 3rd ruckman at the moment it will allow him to develop his field skills but we have to be cautious that we dont underdo him in the ruck. At the end of the day we want to avoid having to bring Ackland back in should one or two of the talls go down. Additionally we dont want to go into games too tall as overall we are a slowish side and that extra set of quick legs may proove to be vital at the death.

 

[KarmaGeddon]

I understand where you are coming from but sending him back to take on slighter bodies in the ruck for the Bullants isn't going to help when he comes back in and faces the same big bodies again,

Slighter bodies

The "men" in the VFL are just as big as the "men" in the AFL.

Maybe not as talented but the AFL is where Kruzmans talent belongs right?

He's been thrown around a bit the last few weeks. Good learning experience, and I have no doubt he will mature throughout the year.
Who can forget that debut against Essendon.

 

[len_jet]

The twos aren't playing this week.

he wasnt in the state side?

 

[len_jet]

Slighter bodies

The "men" in the VFL are just as big as the "men" in the AFL.

Maybe not as talented but the AFL is where Kruzmans talent belongs right?

He's been thrown around a bit the last few weeks. Good learning experience, and I have no doubt he will mature throughout the year.
Who can forget that debut against Essendon.

The ruckmen in the VFL are generally the AFL back up ruckmen and young slight built blokes. I mean if you look at say Sadringham he would potentially come up against Jamar and Johnson... against Coburg he would be coming up against Richmond young back up ruckmen and so on...

The point is the ruckmen in the VFL are no where near as harden as the AFL ruckmen, additionally they either to have the nouce and generally dont have the engines of AFL ruckmen.

 

[KarmaGeddon]

He has been doing more of that - when he decided he was better than Palmer last week (my theory on why he played more positively) he got out on his own a lot and set up a couple of goals

There is a catch for AB in that when he does this he is not going to get to his man if there is a turnover. He either has to become a shadow of Diesel (I say shadow as we can only expect a poorer copy of course) and thus have a better tally on his side of the ledger or he has to choose carefully when to leave his man. This is a weakness but his great strength is one of the rarest in football and until you find us a couple of others to do it, ommitting AB will leave Juddy with a whole team to carry in this area.

Yes he did back himself against Palmer, but Palmer is only a kid. His tackles are good, but I question how much they do for our cause in the end result compared to his lack of penetration.

IMO Geelong very much exposed this tonight.

 

[KarmaGeddon]

He has been doing more of that - when he decided he was better than Palmer last week (my theory on why he played more positively) he got out on his own a lot and set up a couple of goals

There is a catch for AB in that when he does this he is not going to get to his man if there is a turnover. He either has to become a shadow of Diesel (I say shadow as we can only expect a poorer copy of course) and thus have a better tally on his side of the ledger or he has to choose carefully when to leave his man. This is a weakness but his great strength is one of the rarest in football and until you find us a couple of others to do it, ommitting AB will leave Juddy with a whole team to carry in this area.

Another thought: Ask yourself this -

If you had the pick of Bartel, Bentick, Ling or Joel Corey to play in our midfield next week who would be omitted?

 

[KarmaGeddon]

Remember also that even when Bartel and Corey weren't doing so good they still had very penetrating play.

 

[len_jet]

Yes he did back himself against Palmer, but Palmer is only a kid. His tackles are good, but I question how much they do for our cause in the end result compared to his lack of penetration.

IMO Geelong very much exposed this tonight.

Geelong exposed a lot of our weeknesses. The most glaring one was the fact our young side was so prepared to push forward to attack but were very very reluctant to push back. Our backs were horribly bombarded and this was evident with the scoring shots. As the game drew on the amount of close checking and battering our youngs blokes took, eventually took its toll and the was most evident in the 3rd quarter when we looked spent.

Additionally Bentick is only 22, still arguable still in "kid" status especially with his game count.

You seem to be harping on the "penetration" cause... are you expecting him to mount every player he tackles... you always refer to tackling and penetration in the same sentence