Changes to our list in 2011..

[Demon 16]

Not too early to discuss this I dont think - and given the topic was raising some interesting conversation about Junior and the veterens list on an unrelated thread I thought we could discuss?..

My initial thoughts are that we are unlikely to take many picks given the compromised draft next year, so a few might get a repreive and stay on for another year.

• Could Junior McDonald go around again or would we rather a kid?..
• Will Spencer get upgraded from the rookie list?..
• How many draft picks will we take?..
• Which players are we likely to drop?..

 

[Bartram_Class]

Junior I think will struggle, his form was terrific but his body is letting him down. I think if he can get to 250, he'll happily step aside. It would be a decision befitting his character.

Spencer must be 50/50, but the club seems to have high wraps on him, so I can see him getting another year or two on the rookie list. Meesen and Newton are certainties to be cut, Healey probably to join them. Hughes is an interesting case, looked OK but can we trust his body? Club will know a great deal more than we do.

McKenzie is a certianty to get promoted.

Candidates for Delisting:

Daniel Bell - Gone.
Stefan Martin - Horrid year, still knocking about in the Casey 2s.
Tom McNamara - 3rd year on the list, hasn't managed a game in 2010. Young.
Brad Miller - Will he manage a game in 2011? Not if we develop as hoped.
Kyle Cheney - Probably done enough to earn another year.

I fancy the following to depart:

McDonald (retire)
Bell
Martin
Miller

Meesen
Newton
Healey

With the McKenzie elevation, that gives us three picks in the national draft, four in the rookie draft. Will be difficult to work out which two of McNamara, Miller and Martin should be cleared. Probably some trade value in a couple of them.

Of course, alternatively, we could load a couple of them onto the rookie list ala Meesen/Newton and make room that way. I'd be inclined to do so with McNamara in particular.

 

[demons64]

excellent summary BC. Spot on.

 

[RandB]

BC has done a very good and thorough analysis so it is probably easier to add thoughts to that.

Junior I think will struggle, his form was terrific but his body is letting him down. I think if he can get to 250, he'll happily step aside. It would be a decision befitting his character.

Agree with that. I think he has served his purpose/role this year and his spot will also desperately be needed next year for a kid. 250 games will give him great closure and it will be great to see him carried off the ground.

Spencer must be 50/50, but the club seems to have high wraps on him, so I can see him getting another year or two on the rookie list. Meesen and Newton are certainties to be cut, Healey probably to join them. Hughes is an interesting case, looked OK but can we trust his body? Club will know a great deal more than we do.

With Spencer, it isn’t so much big wraps IMO it is more that the club has a long term perspective. I think they made a commitment with Spencer as a project player and we won’t start seeing dividends for a couple of years but the club expected that.

Much to the dismay of many BF posters I suspect Spencer will be elevated to the senior list. He’s done 3 yrs on the RL and I doubt the club will risk trying to re-rookie him.

Meesen and Newton definitely sayonara.

I agree Hughes is an interesting one. If we chop Miller then Hughes could be handy for depth but he’ll probably go as would Healey.

McKenzie is a certianty to get promoted.

Lock it in Eddie

Candidates for Delisting:

Daniel Bell - Gone.
Stefan Martin - Horrid year, still knocking about in the Casey 2s.
Tom McNamara - 3rd year on the list, hasn't managed a game in 2010. Young.
Brad Miller - Will he manage a game in 2011? Not if we develop as hoped.
Kyle Cheney - Probably done enough to earn another year.

I fancy the following to depart:

McDonald (retire)
Bell
Martin
Miller

Meesen
Newton
Healey

Sounds about right to me, perhaps add Hughes.

I think we’ll keep McNamara, lack of senior games isn’t an issue I think. There’s still big wraps on him in the footy fraternity and he’s still young. Our list is getting to the point where (at the lower end) we have nothing to lose by developing existing kids rather than recruiting more kids at the lower end of the draft. Cheney still has his best ahead of him as well.

PJ was dead man walking but he could get a reprieve if he makes the most of the remaining 6 games, I suspect he’ll do just enough but he can thank Spencer’s injury for his lifeline.

Martin is quite simply not working and the sooner the club realises this the better unfortunately.

We simply won't have the game time for Miller to be viable.

With the McKenzie elevation, that gives us three picks in the national draft, four in the rookie draft. Will be difficult to work out which two of McNamara, Miller and Martin should be cleared. Probably some trade value in a couple of them.

McNamara would be taken by another club IMO, Miller and Martin I think not.

Of course, alternatively, we could load a couple of them onto the rookie list ala Meesen/Newton and make room that way. I'd be inclined to do so with McNamara in particular.

I was originally thinking along this line but I think you have to put what the club did with Meesen/Newton into perspective. The key here is that they were contracted. The club wanted them off the senior list but had an onus to pick them in the PSD because they were contracted. Not only were they contracted but the club had first picks after GC and these two players are spuds who no other club would want so the likely hood of this coming off was high (in the players minds).

With contracted players and I’ll use Maric purely as an example, the mechanics are not there for this to work. Firstly the club wouldn’t use the rookie list as a stock pile for players going backwards. Secondly, the club is not bound to pick him in the PSD because he is not contracted so this can make the player disgruntled as they have more or less been sacked. Third, there will be other clubs before us in the PSD this year who can take him. Fourth he is not a complete spud so he won’t fall to us. Trying to put existing players on to the rookie list willy nilly simply isn’t an option.

The other player who will be looked at is Bruce. I think he can sustain his current level which has been serviceable. If Jmac retires then Green takes his spot, we have no other eligible players so Bruce isn’t holding anyone back for the VL. He’s 31 and his games vary between error riddled hospital passes to dominating the sweeping role and setting up play. Given the amount of kids we have now and will have next year I think Bruce will stay – not sure of his contract status.

Going by this (if Bruce stays), I have 2 picks in the ND and 6 picks in the RD. I must admit 2 picks in the ND is probably not feasible, you’d think the club would want at least 3 so somewhere there will have to be a variation to what I’ve suggested. Possibly an extra delisting or a trade. Either way we’ll be loading up on fresh rookies.

 

[Andy_Mac]

I’ve been thinking about this for awhile too.

It’s going to be interesting, but i see the following players being turned over:

Bell - Gone
Miller –Mature age rookie
McNamara – Rookie list for one more year and then gone, may get taken by someone else but that’s the risk we will run. Too short to be a KPD in any case.
Martin – Mature age rookie or trade
McDonald - Retired


Newton -Gone
Meesen - Gone
Healy - Gone
Hughes -Gone

Cheney – One more year
Dunn – Ditto
Johnston – Ditto
Bail – Ditto, yes has shown a lot but at the end of next year will be turning 24

Spencer & McKenzie to be upgraded leaving us with 3 ND selections and 3 rookie selections.

I also have been thinking about some potential trades, Bate has value but is IMO a senior body for our young forward line, an interesting one suggested from a WCE supporter over on the Drafting and Trading board was Bennell. If WCE finish last I’d let Bennell go with our second round for their P4. I’d also like to trade for Dowler, not sure what it would take, Hawks may even be interested in McNamara or Martin (unlikely).

All in all the list is in good shape, back in 2008 their where to many to cull and not enough decent selections to replace them.

 

[Demon 16]

With contracted players and I’ll use Maric purely as an example, the mechanics are not there for this to work. Firstly the club wouldn’t use the rookie list as a stock pile for players going backwards. Secondly, the club is not bound to pick him in the PSD because he is not contracted so this can make the player disgruntled as they have more or less been sacked.

I know it was just an example but FYI I beleive Maric is contracted for next year.

Going by this (if Bruce stays), I have 2 picks in the ND and 6 picks in the RD. I must admit 2 picks in the ND is probably not feasible, you’d think the club would want at least 3 so somewhere there will have to be a variation to what I’ve suggested.

Ive never understood this rule but I beleive (I think..?) every club is required to take a minimum of 3 picks in the national draft - which can include the upgrading of rookies. Can anyone confirm this?

I fancy the following to depart:

McDonald (retire)
Bell
Martin
Miller

Meesen
Newton
Healey

With the McKenzie elevation, that gives us three picks in the national draft, four in the rookie draft. Will be difficult to work out which two of McNamara, Miller and Martin should be cleared. Probably some trade value in a couple of them.

If McDonald retires I beleive Green is eligible to go onto the veterens list in his place - freeing up an additional draft pick (which would give us 4 in the national draft).

 

[Dez!]

I’ve been thinking about this for awhile too.

It’s going to be interesting, but i see the following players being turned over:

Bell - Gone
Miller –Mature age rookie
McNamara – Rookie list for one more year and then gone, may get taken by someone else but that’s the risk we will run. Too short to be a KPD in any case.
Martin – Mature age rookie or trade
McDonald - Retired


Newton -Gone
Meesen - Gone
Healy - Gone
Hughes -Gone

Cheney – One more year
Dunn – Ditto
Johnston – Ditto
Bail – Ditto, yes has shown a lot but at the end of next year will be turning 24

Spencer & McKenzie to be upgraded leaving us with 3 ND selections and 3 rookie selections.

I also have been thinking about some potential trades, Bate has value but is IMO a senior body for our young forward line, an interesting one suggested from a WCE supporter over on the Drafting and Trading board was Bennell. If WCE finish last I’d let Bennell go with our second round for their P4. I’d also like to trade for Dowler, not sure what it would take, Hawks may even be interested in McNamara or Martin (unlikely).

All in all the list is in good shape, back in 2008 their where to many to cull and not enough decent selections to replace them.

Well f*** me throw him into a retirement home at that age, some people take the age thing way too far.

He's shown a lot and still has some time to show more and should get more than just one more year to do it, Bail is a keeper for sure especially when we can get rid of players before him and still have 3 selections in the draft.

With these compromised drafts over the next couple of years I would only be obliged to use our first and second round picks and just develop what we have.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

Where is Matthew Warnock at right now?
Is he worth keeping for another year?

IMO - looking like McDonald (v), Bruce (v), Meesen (r) (retired), Miller, Bell, Martin, Healey (r), Newton (r), Hughes (r) to get the chop.
Matthew Warnock, Addam Maric and Matthew Bate - Might be worth looking at to trade.
Promote Spencer and McKenzie.
Unsure about Wonaeamirri at the moment.

 

[Rojik of the Arctic]

Cut Johnson, Bell, Miller, Hughes. Sadly Junior might have to retire if he can't get his body right. Bruce to the GC (Interesting rumour)

Promote McKenzie and possibly Spencer. (Depending on Junior/Bruce)

Keep Meeson and clear out the rest of the rookies.

3 picks in this draft should do it and hopefully we can grab a decent player or two from the rookie daft.

 

[Demon 16]

I reckon delist;

Bell
Newton
McDonald
Healy (r)
Hughes (r)
Meeson (r)

Veteran list;

Green

Upgrade;

McKenzie
Spencer

Downgrade;

McNamara
Martin

This gives us 4 national draft picks plus 3 rookie picks.

Trade bait would be;

Maric
Bate
Jones
Warnock
Wonnamaerri
Bartram (although not much value)
Cheney (although not much value)
Martin (although not much value)

 

[RandB]

I know it was just an example but FYI I beleive Maric is contracted for next year.

Yeah, it was not the best example but the point is that this year the feasibilty and circumstances are not there like last year.

Ive never understood this rule but I beleive (I think..?) every club is required to take a minimum of 3 picks in the national draft - which can include the upgrading of rookies. Can anyone confirm this?

That is correct. I think they updated the rule last year in light of the compromised drafts that rookie upgrades qualified as 1 of the 3 ND picks.

If McDonald retires I beleive Green is eligible to go onto the veterens list in his place - freeing up an additional draft pick (which would give us 4 in the national draft).

Correct re: Green but I think you are either double counting McDonald/Green or forgetting the upgrade of McKenzie in BCs explanation. By his analysis there are 3 spots.

Well f*** me throw him into a retirement home at that age, some people take the age thing way too far.

Fair statement when you consider Warnock had 4 senior games to his name by the age of 24 I beleive. He has been more than handy the last couple of years. Not to mention that Bail just turned 22 last month so he won't turn 24 until June 2012.

I reckon delist;

Bell
Newton
McDonald
Healy (r)
Hughes (r)
Meeson (r)

Veteran list;

Green

Upgrade;

McKenzie
Spencer

Downgrade;

McNamara
Martin

This gives us 4 national draft picks plus 3 rookie picks.

Trade bait would be;

Maric
Bate
Jones
Warnock
Wonnamaerri
Bartram (although not much value)
Cheney (although not much value)
Martin (although not much value)

I don't think the mechanics or the feasibility are there to "downgrade" Martin or McNamara and in fact I think now is not the time to take McNamara off our senior list. He's been taking up a spot on the senior list as an underaged recruit so I think that now he is probably ready to take the next step the last thing the club will do is take him off it. If the club thinks Martin has no future which wouldn't be a surprise given he actually is 24 and is going backwards at an alarming rate they won't clog our rookie list. The rookie list isn't a stock pile for odds and ends, it is a list of potential quality youth. They rerookied Hughes to see what he could do but with Martin they already know.

In any case, if the scenario that you outlined D16 actually panned out I still think you have double counted an extra spot somewhere and Newton is a rookie. By your scenario we would have 2 ND picks.

 

[Dez!]

Remember that rookie upgrades now count as a pick in the draft.

 

[Demon 16]

Correct re: Green but I think you are either double counting McDonald/Green or forgetting the upgrade of McKenzie in BCs explanation. By his analysis there are 3 spots.

Ah yep - youre right i stand corrected it would leave 3 spots!

I don't think the mechanics or the feasibility are there to "downgrade" Martin or McNamara and in fact I think now is not the time to take McNamara off our senior list. He's been taking up a spot on the senior list as an underaged recruit so I think that now he is probably ready to take the next step the last thing the club will do is take him off it. If the club thinks Martin has no future which wouldn't be a surprise given he actually is 24 and is going backwards at an alarming rate they won't clog our rookie list. The rookie list isn't a stock pile for odds and ends, it is a list of potential quality youth. They rerookied Hughes to see what he could do but with Martin they already know.

In any case, if the scenario that you outlined D16 actually panned out I still think you have double counted an extra spot somewhere and Newton is a rookie. By your scenario we would have 2 ND picks.

Probably a fair call on McNamara - although I dont think hes progressing particularly well. But youre right he's still got time to develop as hes so young. I could see some value in Martin on the rookie list though. He would still be available for Casey and Im not inclined to completely rid too many talls from our list at the moment.

And jeepers - I must have been drunk.. thats only 2 spots youre right! I need to think about who else would need to go

 

[Deefolt]

from waht i saw of maric i dont want him gone

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

On that note - I'm sorry I doubted you, Aussie.

 

[Devastating Boris]

Well f*** me throw him into a retirement home at that age, some people take the age thing way too far.

e.g Podsiadly

 

[Ageing Demon]

On that note - I'm sorry I doubted you, Aussie.

ME TOO
God I hope he stays fit!

 

[d33my]

It goes to show how much this board affects me.
After only reading a couple of posts (Wonna is not good enough anymore etc etc) I was starting to believe Wona wasn't up to scratch!
All based on no evidence of course.
I'm sorry for doubting you Aussie, BigFooty made me do it!!!

 

[StingaArmstrong]

It goes to show how much this board affects me.
After only reading a couple of posts (Wonna is not good enough anymore etc etc) I was starting to believe Wona wasn't up to scratch!
All based on no evidence of course.
I'm sorry for doubting you Aussie, BigFooty made me do it!!!

I think the only problem with his ability was his ability to get out on the park! Fingers crossed he can stay out there for rest of the year.

 

[WinmarToLockett]

Brad Miller - Will he manage a game in 2011? Not if we develop as hoped.

I'm tired of everyone paying out on Brad Miller. I think he should be our captain next year.

 

[BrownSugar]

Where is Matthew Warnock at right now?
Is he worth keeping for another year?

IMO - looking like McDonald (v), Bruce (v), Meesen (r) (retired), Miller, Bell, Martin, Healey (r), Newton (r), Hughes (r) to get the chop.
Matthew Warnock, Addam Maric and Matthew Bate - Might be worth looking at to trade.
Promote Spencer and McKenzie.
Unsure about Wonaeamirri at the moment.

Most of this is right I reckon. However, Warnock has been really important for us over the past couple of years and we shouldn't jump off him so quick. And for the life of me, I just can't work out why everyone is jumping off Matthew Bate. Prior to his form slump, he had been great for about 18mths and almost our most reliable forward until Greeny re-found himself. We have so much to work with, just need to get rid if list-cloggers like Miller, Martin, Newton & Meesen who all give us nothing and just see what we get from the draft.

 

[MAXIMUM GRUNDAGE]

Most of this is right I reckon. However, Warnock has been really important for us over the past couple of years and we shouldn't jump off him so quick. And for the life of me, I just can't work out why everyone is jumping off Matthew Bate. Prior to his form slump, he had been great for about 18mths and almost our most reliable forward until Greeny re-found himself. We have so much to work with, just need to get rid if list-cloggers like Miller, Martin, Newton & Meesen who all give us nothing and just see what we get from the draft.

And just looking at that again, I think Bruce will go around for one more year and bow out at the end of next season.

 

[Captain Jack]

Bell is gone
Miller is gone
Martin - would need a small miracle at this stage
Macnamara - can't see him being any more than a depth player at this stage, harsh and probably bad call, but that's how i see it.
McDonald should retire - unfortunate but i can't see his body holding up another year after this hamstring debarcle
Green onto the Veterans' List in McDonald's place, frees up another spot. Or does he have to be 30?

Newton
Meesen - 'nuff said, sad story though.
Healey
Hughes - doubt we can actually keep him on the RL any longer... and not worth upgrading. Harsh, i know.

McKenzie - upgrade, duh.
Spencer - I don't see it in him, but looks a likely upgrade as he can't stay on the RL any longer either.

PJ, Bartram, Dunn, Maric, Wonna and Bruce are safe despite the doubters at various points.

That leaves us 3 picks in the ND + 2 upgrades + 6 RD picks.

 

[Punchy Demons]

For mine delist/retire: Bell, Martin, Junior, Healy, Hughes, Meesen, Newton,

Promote: McKenzie (but they’ll also promote Spencer)

Veterans: Green

Mature Rookie: Miller

Would look at trading Warnock or McNamara but would depend on whats on offer. Just as happy to keep them for insurance though.

 

[KickLongTackleHard]

It goes to show how much this board affects me.
After only reading a couple of posts (Wonna is not good enough anymore etc etc) I was starting to believe Wona wasn't up to scratch!
All based on no evidence of course.
I'm sorry for doubting you Aussie, BigFooty made me do it!!!

Matthew Bate going through the same BigFooty cycle. Had an injury interupted pre-season, he'll bounce back.