Changes V Port

[marcuz]

I think you're incorrect here. I'm pretty sure it was Paddy who started on Travis Cloke on ANZAC Day.

In fact, I wouldn't have said Paddy's played loose much at all. THat role's been left for Fletch.

Correct on both counts.

 

[marcuz]

Disposal
Kepler > Dyson

Height
Kepler > Dyson

Strength
Kepler > Dyson

Ability
Kepler > Dyson

Marking
Kepler > Dyson

Below the knees
Kepler < Dyson

Pace
Maybe Dyson. Just. And its not by much.

Doesn't have to play midfield - just on the wing.

Surely your taking the piss.......or at least on it.

Since when has height been a skill?

 

[dave_27]

Thinking back, you're right. Did McPhee go onto him at some stage?

No he was too busy trying to take on players and getting caught holding the ball right when we were starting to make a run in the last quarter.

On a side note in regards to Ryder down back, you only have to listen to Mal on radio the other day giving Paddy a massive rap.

Reckons he should be down back all the time as it unsettles them when he is pushed into the ruck.

 

[Longy413]

Correct on both counts.

Incorrect.

He's been very well protected and so he should be, he's a kid.

But Kepler Bradley didn't get the same advantages and he cops as much critisism as Mark Bolton.

The kid had the biggest jobs in footy and we all wrote him off.

Ryder's played on two opponents of any serious quality. It wasn't until this week that he was really hurt by his opponent. Which is a credit to Paddy in itself.

Paddy gets to play between Mal and Fletch and a lot of the time doesn't have to worry about an opponent.

 

[GoDons]

Monfries plays as a marking player and he's struggling.

He's arguing for Kepler to replace Stanton instead of Dyson. I can see the argument for Monfries to be repaced by Kepler, but if Stanton goes, I can't see the argumnet for him to be replaced by Kepler.

Yet refuses to use it.
Until he consistently takes the game on at VFL level and uses his strengths, he should stay there.

Ricky Dyson not playing to his strengths is useless to us.

From what I've heard, in the last 2 weeks Ricky has been runnign and carrying a fair bit. That is obviously not enough to prove he's changed his game but it's a sign and there have been signs in the past. I hope it's just a matter of time before it does emerge. He's worth another chance in my opinion.

 

[Longy413]

On a side note in regards to Ryder down back, you only have to listen to Mal on radio the other day giving Paddy a massive rap.

Not a critisism of Ryder at all. I actually started a thread a couple of weeks ago saying he was the best second year player we've had in the modern era.

But he hasn't had to do it as hard as Kep did. I've got no doubt Kep could have been as effective as Paddy has this year defensively.

He obviously doesn't have the run or the brilliant foot skills Paddy has, but I think we treat him unfairly.

 

[Longy413]

He's arguing for Kepler to replace Stanton instead of Dyson. I can see the argument for Monfries to be repaced by Kepler, but if Stanton goes, I can't see the argumnet for him to be replaced by Kepler.

Yep, I noticed that.
Looks like Stanton will play though, if he doesn't I think we could do better than Dyson anyway.

From what I've heard, in the last 2 weeks Ricky has been runnign and carrying a fair bit. That is obviously not enough to prove he's changed his game but it's a sign and there have been signs in the past. I hope it's just a matter of time before it does emerge. He's worth another chance in my opinion.

I've heard he definately did this week, but not so much last week.
Ricky's problem has never been that he can't do it, it's that he doesn't consistently do it. He needs to do it three or four times in a row to convince me.

 

[High Ryder]

Ryder played on Staker didnt he? Thought last week was his poorest for the year.

 

[marcuz]

Incorrect.

Ryder's played on two opponents of any serious quality. It wasn't until this week that he was really hurt by his opponent. Which is a credit to Paddy in itself.

Paddy gets to play between Mal and Fletch and a lot of the time doesn't have to worry about an opponent.

You stated he plays a loose man in defence role, he doesnt. He is responsible for a man while fletch zones off and plays third man up in most marking contests. Sometimes we play a five man forward line and fletch has no opponent. The ability of ryders opponants is a non issue, he still plays man on man.

He's been very well protected and so he should be, he's a kid.

But Kepler Bradley didn't get the same advantages and he cops as much critisism as Mark Bolton.

The kid had the biggest jobs in footy and we all wrote him off.

Kepler isnt a defenders ########, lacks decent pace and lateral movement to keep up with the good forwards. Paddy has those two attributes in abundance and he also is a beautiful kick and doesnt panic.

Kepler needs to be given his head and you nailed his spot the other night. A forward with the freedom to roam. His strengths ie workrate and nose for the footy would serve him well.

 

[GoDons]

Incorrect.

He's been very well protected and so he should be, he's a kid.

But Kepler Bradley didn't get the same advantages and he cops as much critisism as Mark Bolton.

The kid had the biggest jobs in footy and we all wrote him off.

Ryder's played on two opponents of any serious quality. It wasn't until this week that he was really hurt by his opponent. Which is a credit to Paddy in itself.

Paddy gets to play between Mal and Fletch and a lot of the time doesn't have to worry about an opponent.

You're definately right that Paddy's had an easier ride than Kepler Bradley. Kepler couldn't have had it much harder.

Paddy's applied himself very well though and at a level I don't think Kepler could've managed. Not saying Kepler's not up to it though.

 

[Darealrath]

But he hasn't had to do it as hard as Kep did. I've got no doubt Kep could have been as effective as Paddy has this year defensively.

Two attributes that Paddy has displayed many times this season to make spoils or win a contested ball (or at least prevent his opponent from winning it) have been pace off the mark and balance. They are the two things Kepler struggles with big time.

I'd like to see Kepler have another crack, but just keep him away from defence because any smart team will play through his man.

 

[marcuz]

I've heard he definately did this week, but not so much last week.
Ricky's problem has never been that he can't do it, it's that he doesn't consistently do it. He needs to do it three or four times in a row to convince me.

I'm not sure why it hasnt sunk in yet and that worries me. he stated in the latest bomber mag that he needs to use his pace more yet he doesnt seem to be doing anything about it. He suffers from a lack of drive, its a common occurance with kids who stroll through junior footy.

 

[High Ryder]

Two attributes that Paddy has displayed many times this season to make spoils or win a contested ball (or at least prevent his opponent from winning it) have been pace off the mark and balance. They are the two things Kepler struggles with big time.

I'd like to see Kepler have another crack, but just keep him away from defence because any smart team will play through his man.

Agree with that, Kepler is too slow off the mark and whilst he tries his guts out playing in defence isn't his go. Let him play that lead up style half forward where he can dictate to his opponent and i think he'll go alright as long as the delivery is reasonablly good.

 

[Longy413]

Ryder played on Staker didnt he? Thought last week was his poorest for the year.

Started on Mitch Brown, was on Staker for a bit.

You stated he plays a loose man in defence role, he doesnt. He is responsible for a man while fletch zones off and plays third man up in most marking contests. Sometimes we play a five man forward line and fletch has no opponent. The ability of ryders opponants is a non issue, he still plays man on man.

He does.

Fletcher and Ryder both zone off.

When Fletcher was playing on Welsh in Round 1 who was Ryder playing on?
Against Carlton?
When Fletch had Tarrant and Mal Pavlich (or vice versa), what was Ryder doing?

Ryder has played the role Fletcher has in the last few weeks just as often as Fletcher does.

He has rarely played tight, man on man footy.

Kepler isnt a defenders ########, lacks decent pace and lateral movement to keep up with the good forwards. Paddy has those two attributes in abundance and he also is a beautiful kick and doesnt panic.

How would we know?

He's been taken apart by the games best. In his first year when he was given the sort of match ups Ryder has been given he looked the goods. Players like Miller etc.

His pace is good for a bloke his height, no point comparing that to Ryder because Paddy's pace is rare, it's freak like.

Kepler is a good long kick of the footy, there's blokes holding down jobs in defense that are a lot worse. Carrol for one, Hay before that.

Kepler needs to be given his head and you nailed his spot the other night. A forward with the freedom to roam. His strenths ie workrate and nose for the footy would serve him well.

Absolutely, but I still believe we marked him far to harshly as a defender.

He never stood a chance.

 

[Longy413]

I'd like to see Kepler have another crack, but just keep him away from defence because any smart team will play through his man.

Look, I agree.

I'm not saying Kep should take Paddy's spot, I'm not saying Kep should play back.

All I'm saying Kep has been written off by all and sundry, but he's been given jobs he was never a chance to win.

Richo kicked a bag on him, Richo is one of the best forwards of the last decade and he was given and open 50 to work with. No Fletcher, no Mal Michael.

Yet Kep is a hack because he can't stop Richo in those conditions, please.

The bloke is now full of confidence, something he's lacked. Whack him on a half forward flank and we have another weapon.

 

[GoDons]

Yep, I noticed that.
Looks like Stanton will play though, if he doesn't I think we could do better than Dyson anyway.

It does look like Stanton will play. I think Dyson is the best option but I must admit to being a fan of Ricky. The only one I'd bring in ahead of him is possibly Chris Heffernan.

I've heard he definately did this week, but not so much last week.
Ricky's problem has never been that he can't do it, it's that he doesn't consistently do it. He needs to do it three or four times in a row to convince me.

I agree with you here. He needs to produce that run on a consistant basis. Then again, of the guys in the VFL, only Jetta backs his pace more and he needs another week in the VFL. If we're looking for pace, there is no better option than Dyson from the VFL at the moment.

 

[Longy413]

only Jetta backs his pace more

Dare I say it, Richie Cole?

I'd go with Jay Nash though.

 

[Darealrath]

.

The bloke is now full of confidence, something he's lacked. Whack him on a half forward flank and we have another weapon.

Would love to see it. You reckon it's any chance this week though ?

 

[dave_27]

Dare I say it, Richie Cole?

I'd go with Jay Nash though.

As a matter of interest where does Richi rate pace wise at the club?

He was touted back in '01 draft time as having real genuine pace off the mark yet I havent exactly seen any Lovett-Murray like bursts from him yet off the half back line.

 

[GoDons]

Dare I say it, Richie Cole?

I'd go with Jay Nash though.

You're right with Cole, forgot about him. He's got to get off a striking charge first if he hasn't already though.

I think I'm just about the only poster on here that doesn't think that highly of Jay Nash. I thought he was very average against Sydney, in fact I'd take Dyson's game against Richmond ahead of it.

From all reports, Dyson was a lot better than Nash on Monday. Considering we don't have a lot to go from these two this year, I think Dyson should get the place should it become available.

 

[Longy413]

Would love to see it. You reckon it's any chance this week though ?

Probably not. Gussy seems to be a coaches fave and really, he's the only bloke Kep can replace at the moment.

As a matter of interest where does Richi rate pace wise at the club?

He was touted back in '01 draft time as having real genuine pace off the mark yet I havent exactly seen any Lovett-Murray like bursts from him yet off the half back line.

I actually don't know.
He isn't slow, normally when we see him trying to take off, he's crashing through packs, or at least attempting to.

 

[marcuz]

Started on Mitch Brown, was on Staker for a bit.



He does.

Fletcher and Ryder both zone off.

When Fletcher was playing on Welsh in Round 1 who was Ryder playing on?
Against Carlton?
When Fletch had Tarrant and Mal Pavlich (or vice versa), what was Ryder doing?

Ryder has played the role Fletcher has in the last few weeks just as often as Fletcher does.

He has rarely played tight, man on man footy.

There is a difference between zoning off and being a loose man in defense longy. You can still be responible for a man and give defensive help in a marking contest. Fletch is the guy we try and release most weeks. Sometimes there may be a matchup that has him not take that role but most of the time Fletch is the one chosen to create.

How would we know?

He's been taken apart by the games best. In his first year when he was given the sort of match ups Ryder has been given he looked the goods. Players like Miller etc.

Third tall in defense at a pinch maybe, but playing on a guy that demands the ball he struggles. Nothing wrong with keps ability to read the play its keeping up with his opponent that is.

His pace is good for a bloke his height, no point comparing that to Ryder because Paddy's pace is rare, it's freak like.

Rare? He is no quicker than Gerig, reiwoldt, Tarrant, Pavlich, Fevola, Franklin, Richardson etc even guys his age like Mitch clark are super quick. These guys are the type of "freaks" defenders have to play on and the reason why keps can't keep up. Certain matchups may suit but the gun forwards are athleticaly gifted.

 

[High Ryder]

You're right with Cole, forgot about him. He's got to get off a striking charge first if he hasn't already though.

I think I'm just about the only poster on here that doesn't think that highly of Jay Nash. I thought he was very average against Sydney, in fact I'd take Dyson's game against Richmond ahead of it.

From all reports, Dyson was a lot better than Nash on Monday. Considering we don't have a lot to go from these two this year, I think Dyson should get the place should it become available.

Nash had come off one game for Bendigo were he didnt even play a full game. He has had pretty much no pre-season at all where as Dyson has and is still putting in disapointing games and hasnt ever strung 4-5 good games in a row where as Nash did that last year. Its all about Nash getting fit and running into form which im confident he'll be able to do in the next couple of weeks. Who else do we have to replace Stants? pretty lean picking other than Ricky and Nashy atm. Btw is Reimers any chance of being a suprise selection? from what i've heard his form has been solid at Bendigo.

 

[ant555]

Look, I agree.

I'm not saying Kep should take Paddy's spot, I'm not saying Kep should play back.

All I'm saying Kep has been written off by all and sundry, but he's been given jobs he was never a chance to win.

Richo kicked a bag on him, Richo is one of the best forwards of the last decade and he was given and open 50 to work with. No Fletcher, no Mal Michael.

Yet Kep is a hack because he can't stop Richo in those conditions, please.

The bloke is now full of confidence, something he's lacked. Whack him on a half forward flank and we have another weapon.

Agree , he knows how to keep working and takes plenty of marks. If his kicking had been on song recently he would have had bags of 5,6 or 7 goals from CHF. He works up and down the wing pretty effectivly as well when he has been playing forward.
I hope he gets a chance soon. I have been saying for ages (over 12 months)that he would be a good half forward.

 

[Longy413]

There is a difference between zoning off and being a loose man in defense longy. You can still be responible for a man and give defensive help in a marking contest. Fletch is the guy we try and release most weeks. Sometimes there may be a matchup that has him not take that role but most of the time Fletch is the one chosen to create.

Effectively everyone is responsible for a man.
The only time you ever had a bone fide loose man is if you play seven defenders. We've only done that in three games, otherwise zoning off is playing loose. There is no difference.

Fletch was responsible for a man against Brisbane, we chose not to man him up though.

Ryder lets his opponent go as often as Fletcher has. He's rarely had to worry about an oppoenent.

Third tall in defense at a pinch maybe, but playing on a guy that demands the ball he struggles. Nothing wrong with keps ability to read the play its keeping up with his opponent that is.

Read what I said again. I'm not actually calling for Kepler to be played there.

All I'm saying is we mark Ryder too easily and Kepler too harshly.

Kep never stood a chance.

And this week was the first week Ryder played on a player that really led up at the ball in Mitch Brown. He was moved off him.

Rare? He is no quicker than Gerig, reiwoldt, Tarrant, Pavlich, Fevola, Franklin, Richardson etc even guys his age like Mitch clark are super quick. These guys are the type of "freaks" defenders have to play on and the reason why keps can't keep up. Certain matchups may suit but the gun forwards are athleticaly gifted.

None of them are in Ryder/Bradley's height bracket.

What's Reiwoldt, 192-193cm's?

Franklin would be the closest, he's in that freak category as well.

Ryder isn't going to play out his career as a defender anyway.