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Preview Changes v Saints Rd 6

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australian idle said:
That's not saying much, but do tell.
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It doesn't matter buddy , I'm just on here because my mates go for other teams and it can be fun expressing your opinions on here , not trying to be better or worse than others I just want to see us win a flag
 

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I'm not sure that Minson has done anything wrong as such, it's more that he gets in the way if your attempting to transition or move the ball. And if he gets the ball in transition he'll regularly f*** it up or stall it by choosing the wrong option more often than the right one. Perhaps Cordy is less of a liability in this regard, possibly even a contributor, and this carries more weight than tap work (at the moment but I'm not convinced that it's sustainable in September should that happen where I think the weight of first use against would ultimately get you). I did wonder at the beginning of the season, apart from his (Minson's') lack of impact around the ground, what effect/impact the loss of Libba, Boyd and Grip from the centre clearance brigade would have on him. It's a dynamic that has changed with or without him.
 
I think the thinking is that of all our ruck options, only Cordy provides the defensive option of playing back. This means that Roughy follows his man into the ruck and Cordy his man into the forward line. Cordy can also go forward.

We saw what happened last week. We got smashed in the ruck but the big guys from Sydney didn't do much else. Perhaps getting the hit outs is not enough or not as important as we think.

If this was a concern, then Beverage has Will Minson in wings if he wants to improve hit outs and perhaps center clearances stats.

I am happy for Ayce to be given every opportunity, he does need to do more in terms of rucking and marking, but then so did the options.
 
It's all about 5-1. I don't care how or why we get there, I just want to get there! We may have to go and get a few people out of institutions that were branded insane that predicted us to be 5-1 at the start of the year though if we win.
 
Next Waiting said:
I'm not sure that Minson has done anything wrong as such, it's more that he gets in the way if your attempting to transition or move the ball. And if he gets the ball in transition he'll regularly f*** it up or stall it by choosing the wrong option more often than the right one. Perhaps Cordy is less of a liability in this regard, possibly even a contributor, and this carries more weight than tap work (at the moment but I'm not convinced that it's sustainable in September should that happen where I think the weight of first use against would ultimately get you). I did wonder at the beginning of the season, apart from his (Minson's') lack of impact around the ground, what effect/impact the loss of Libba, Boyd and Grip from the centre clearance brigade would have on him. It's a dynamic that has changed with or without him.
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I agree Minson is far from perfect but Ayce is so far from perfect that you'd need the Hubble Telescope to see him.
 

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The problem is that us as footy fans through the history of the AFL, generations of fans and through local footy etc. see the ruckman's role, well, as being good in the ruck contest. We're ingrained and conditioned to see that as the role of a player playing in the ruck, so it's simply hard to, not necessarily understand, but rather comprehend, the reasoning for preferring Cordy over Minson, if Minson is better in ruck contests. However, with modern statistical analysis, video review, etc. maybe the game of Australian Rules Footy is evolving tactically as we know it. It could be quite possible that we're seeing Bev as a proactive coach who might have successful tactics that are copied by other teams, as it seems to be working with Cordy in the team.. It might seem unusual now to sacrifice the ruck contest itself for a ruck's ability to be mobile around the ground and impact the game indirectly, but if we are somehow successful with this tactic (say, hypothetically, Cordy is retained as first ruck for the rest of the year and we make top 4), not only this tactic likely to be scrutinised by the media and opposition coaches, but it could actually usher in an evolution in the ruck's role in the AFL as a whole. This could be a "you heard it here first" moment, and Bev will be one of the game's best tactical innovators, but don't be surprised in 5-10 years time that half the league is running around with Cordy-esque blokes in the ruck - ability to play all areas of the ground, reasonably mobile and athletic for their height, but somewhat useless at the ruck contests - if we somehow manage to continue to be successful with Cordy playing as first ruck.
 
I am slightly surprised with the continued inclusion of Ayce, especially with his well documented lack of output. Let's hope he can turn it around this week, it might (should) be his last if he doesn't.
It would be interesting to include Hamling and try and push Roughy into the ruck, because despite being a fantastic and required backman, he is also our most versatile ruck option. Interesting.
 
If Cordy racked up 16 possessions a game around the ground then the argument is there, He doesn't get close to this. Doesn't take marks around the ground, and I really can't see any impact he has around the ground. He is going to get to contests at some stage but so is every ruck in the league.

Off topic but how did Dean Cox never win a brownlow. He was the perfect ruck.
 
threenewpadlocks said:
The problem is that us as footy fans through the history of the AFL, generations of fans and through local footy etc. see the ruckman's role, well, as being good in the ruck contest. We're ingrained and conditioned to see that as the role of a player playing in the ruck, so it's simply hard to, not necessarily understand, but rather comprehend, the reasoning for preferring Cordy over Minson, if Minson is better in ruck contests. However, with modern statistical analysis, video review, etc. maybe the game of Australian Rules Footy is evolving tactically as we know it. It could be quite possible that we're seeing Bev as a proactive coach who might have successful tactics that are copied by other teams, as it seems to be working with Cordy in the team.. It might seem unusual now to sacrifice the ruck contest itself for a ruck's ability to be mobile around the ground and impact the game indirectly, but if we are somehow successful with this tactic (say, hypothetically, Cordy is retained as first ruck for the rest of the year and we make top 4), not only this tactic likely to be scrutinised by the media and opposition coaches, but it could actually usher in an evolution in the ruck's role in the AFL as a whole. This could be a "you heard it here first" moment, and Bev will be one of the game's best tactical innovators, but don't be surprised in 5-10 years time that half the league is running around with Cordy-esque blokes in the ruck - ability to play all areas of the ground, reasonably mobile and athletic for their height, but somewhat useless at the ruck contests - if we somehow manage to continue to be successful with Cordy playing as first ruck.
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Don't disagree with the thrust of the argument however I don't think being thrashed in the ruck to the extent that Cordy has will prove to be sustainable in the long run. Unless Cordy improves his ruck stats we will need to either trade in a ruckman with the qualities that Cordy seemingly brings but with a much higher ruck value or make Roughy first ruck and find a replacement for Roughy in defence. The latter is actually my preferred option with Carlisle (or similar) the replacement. Roughy has been much under estimated in the ruck for a long time IMO and offers a lot around the ground, obviously proficient defensively and capable (but not outstanding (yet)) forward.
If we happened to get Carlisle (or similar) the option to rest Roughy forward (chopped out by Boyd) or back (chopped out by Carlisle) exists. Carlisle can also play all 3 positions but is not in Roughys' class as a ruckman. Many, many options in this scenario but obviously predicated on being able to prise Carlisle away from Essendon, or finding someone like him somewhere else. Perhaps I'm doing Ayce an injustice (we are winning after all) but the doubts persist.
I'm assuming Campbell does not have the required mobility and/or flexibility wanted at this stage. I'm hoping this is temporary condition because I think he has something to offer, certainly as a ruckman and when resting forward.
 
threenewpadlocks said:
The way that I see the only reason Ayce is playing is because he's the only ruckman doing the team non-negotiables of adhering to team structures and defensive running. Maybe it's the type of tough love coaching we need (not throttling your players in reserves).

The thing is, it's working, and it's clear that it's having an impact. It's having an impact indirectly, not directly, however, which is where I think some supporters struggle to get their head around.
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It's the vibe, it's Mabo, it's Cordy etc
 
threenewpadlocks said:
It might seem unusual now to sacrifice the ruck contest itself for a ruck's ability to be mobile around the ground and impact the game indirectly, but if we are somehow successful with this tactic (say, hypothetically, Cordy is retained as first ruck for the rest of the year and we make top 4), not only this tactic likely to be scrutinised by the media and opposition coaches, but it could actually usher in an evolution in the ruck's role in the AFL as a whole. This could be a "you heard it here first" moment, and Bev will be one of the game's best tactical innovators, but don't be surprised in 5-10 years time that half the league is running around with Cordy-esque blokes in the ruck - ability to play all areas of the ground, reasonably mobile and athletic for their height, but somewhat useless at the ruck contests - if we somehow manage to continue to be successful with Cordy playing as first ruck.
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Geelong is already doing this with Bilcavs and Stanley as their rucks, they offer next to nothing in ruck contest but look much better team overall than they did using dinosaur Simpson and winning hitouts
 

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Ok folks, the gameday thread is up. lets take it to there.
 
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