Asia China's growing influence

[ferball]

My word, wow...

Whatever you think of julian assange and this chick are separate, you twit.

"THis chick" has been accused of spying.

At the very least she repeatedly broke lockdown to go around filming.

Do you give s**t to those loons who reckon the virus is a hoax and do that here? Think they should be locked up? She did this in an authoritarian state. And in the context of China v the west, especially the US. What do you think is gonna happen? The guy that led the Hong Kong protests and is most likely a US asset as well (ie may have spoken to US people or used their resources whether he was a spy or not, that's how authoritarians will see it,) only got a few (10) months. There is more going on here than we know about.

Meanwhile Assange is rotting in solitary in Belmarsh while the US state dept and the British judicial system conspire to * him over.

Exactly how different are these situations?

Its easy to bag China for their disgusting crap ... we are powerless to change it after all but its not so *en easy to give a s**t when the same sort of thing happens to our own citizens and is done by our so callled allies.

 

[ferball]

The drums of war are beating.
In 20 years time it will be too late, in 50 it’ll be a done deal, China will run the planet.
I’m not ok with this.

The most likely thing to happen here will be a skirmish in the South China Sea and its likely the Chinese Navy wins and then things return to "normal" ie how they have been for the last decade. There may be some sort of cold war... I dunno. I'm not any sort of expert but it seems like the CCP is using nationalism to maintain its grip on power. That never ends well.

But China isn't the only economy in the world. SE Asia will form a bloc to resist it. India will. It will be interesting.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

"THis chick" has been accused of spying.

At the very least she repeatedly broke lockdown to go around filming.

Do you give sh*t to those loons who reckon the virus is a hoax and do that here? Think they should be locked up? She did this in an authoritarian state. And in the context of China v the west, especially the US. What do you think is gonna happen? The guy that led the Hong Kong protests and is most likely a US asset as well (ie may have spoken to US people or used their resources whether he was a spy or not, that's how authoritarians will see it,) only got a few (10) months. There is more going on here than we know about.

Meanwhile Assange is rotting in solitary in Belmarsh while the US state dept and the British judicial system conspire to fu** him over.

Exactly how different are these situations?

Its easy to bag China for their disgusting crap ... we are powerless to change it after all but its not so fu**en easy to give a sh*t when the same sort of thing happens to our own citizens and is done by our so callled allies.

You're waffling on, coming across as a whiny little bitch here.
It seems that, umm, when it comes to China, to quote an ABC host - there's nuaince to the discussion. Everyone's trying to be the 'manliest man in the room' to quote the editor of theguardian. 'We powerless to change it anyway to quote you!

That's not the rhetoric on the far lesser of the two evils of Trump! Who said protests have to be peaceful during the BLM riots to quote Cuomo.

The hypocricy and your hypocrisy in this instance is plain to see.
Either put up or shut the * up.

If your defending China's actions of this woman - I don't want to hear another peep from you about Assange, Trump, Brexit, Climate change or anything else that irks you and your political compass or your brand.

 

[ferball]

You're waffling on, coming across as a whiny little b*tch here.
It seems that, umm, when it comes to China, to quote an ABC host - there's nuaince to the discussion. Everyone's trying to be the 'manliest man in the room' to quote the editor of theguardian. 'We powerless to change it anyway to quote you!

That's not the rhetoric on the far lesser of the two evils of Trump! Who said protests have to be peaceful during the BLM riots to quote Cuomo.

The hypocricy and your hypocrisy in this instance is plain to see.
Either put up or shut the fu** up.

If your defending China's actions of this woman - I don't want to hear another peep from you about Assange, Trump, Brexit, Climate change or anything else that irks you and your political compass or your brand.

I'm not defending them.

It's just typical of people to not think for themselves. A brutal authoritarian regime just locked up a whistle blower for four years. Good thing we don't encourage that sort of s**t here hey. Its always the bad guys somewhere else. Anyway there is an ignore button. Why not use it.

 

[Seeds]

Okay. Isn't she a US spy?

What is the difference?

Ones being punished for eating a carrot that was stolen from a government run shop. The other is being punished for eating a carrot they grew in their own backyard.

ps. I dont think assange should be imprisoned for printing stolen documents. But they were stolen. Its not the same thing.

 

[Seeds]

"THis chick" has been accused of spying.

At the very least she repeatedly broke lockdown to go around filming.

Do you give sh*t to those loons who reckon the virus is a hoax and do that here? Think they should be locked up? She did this in an authoritarian state. And in the context of China v the west, especially the US. What do you think is gonna happen? The guy that led the Hong Kong protests and is most likely a US asset as well (ie may have spoken to US people or used their resources whether he was a spy or not, that's how authoritarians will see it,) only got a few (10) months. There is more going on here than we know about.

Meanwhile Assange is rotting in solitary in Belmarsh while the US state dept and the British judicial system conspire to fu** him over.

Exactly how different are these situations?

Its easy to bag China for their disgusting crap ... we are powerless to change it after all but its not so fu**en easy to give a sh*t when the same sort of thing happens to our own citizens and is done by our so callled allies.

She is not being imprisoned for breaking lockdown.

 

[ferball]

Ones being punished for eating a carrot that was stolen from a government run shop. The other is being punished for eating a carrot they grew in their own backyard.

ps. I dont think assange should be imprisoned for printing stolen documents. But they were stolen. Its not the same thing.

I think one is being punished for making the US look bad and one is being punished for making China look bad.

Allegedly Zhang broke quarantine and lockdown to do her reporting. In WA that will bring you prison time. It seems to me that pointing out her particular case is just footy teamism.

Why the * do we do any business with China in the first place? Their government regularly torture people, arbitrarily detain them and generally behave like arseholes. We were happy to ignore this for years while there was money to be made and now we are worried there is some sort of problem? Its stupid. I know we support torture these days and turn a blind eye to its use on our own citizens, Assange and Hicks for example, but we aren't okay with using prisoners as organ banks are we?

As far as stolen info or not... wikileaks is a platform for whistleblowers. In some ways all whistle blowing is stolen information. Our government treats it that way. That is what Zhang did. I don't see that distinction.

 

[ferball]

She is not being imprisoned for breaking lockdown.

No she made the Chinese Government look bad and took control of a situation ... well its narrative away from them.

I don't see why people are surprised when China does this sort of thing in response. I'm surprised she is alive and mentioned in public frankly. But its annoying that people who give a * about this don't give a * about similar situations happening here to our citizens via our allies. It just seems like more pro war propaganda.

And frankly we aren't ready for that (war) and won't be till we have our own WMDs.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

No she made the Chinese Government look bad and took control of a situation ... well its narrative away from them.

I don't see why people are surprised when China does this sort of thing in response. I'm surprised she is alive and mentioned in public frankly. But its annoying that people who give a fu** about this don't give a fu** about similar situations happening here to our citizens via our allies. It just seems like more pro war propaganda.

And frankly we aren't ready for that (war) and won't be till we have our own WMDs.

Why the * would we want WMD's?

Having them has not stopped attacks on India, Pakistan, Israel, or Russia

 

[ferball]

Why the fu** would we want WMD's?

Having them has not stopped attacks on India, Pakistan, Israel, or Russia

Not by anyone who is a serious threat. India and China are just messing around. Its convenient for both of them cos they are both run by nationalist arseholes and there is a humungous mountain range between them to limit the scale of things.

The reality is we are a colony for foreign investment. Basically a banana republic in waiting. The US is our ally cos it suits them and will dump us as soon as that suits them. And we have spent twenty years urinating all over whatever international good will we once had. We may find we need WMDs in the future when our resources are not as plentiful and we want them for ourselves.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Not by anyone who is a serious threat. India and China are just messing around. Its convenient for both of them cos they are both run by nationalist arseholes and there is a humungous mountain range between them to limit the scale of things.

The reality is we are a colony for foreign investment. Basically a banana republic in waiting. The US is our ally cos it suits them and will dump us as soon as that suits them. And we have spent twenty years urinating all over whatever international good will we once had. We may find we need WMDs in the future when our resources are not as plentiful and we want them for ourselves.

You dismiss Pakistan vs India as not a serious threat?

Fmd

 

[chelseacarlton]

The most likely thing to happen here will be a skirmish in the South China Sea and its likely the Chinese Navy wins and then things return to "normal" ie how they have been for the last decade. There may be some sort of cold war... I dunno. I'm not any sort of expert but it seems like the CCP is using nationalism to maintain its grip on power. That never ends well.

But China isn't the only economy in the world. SE Asia will form a bloc to resist it. India will. It will be interesting.

When your “Dear Leader is driven in an open top car through it’s military cavalcade in a clear cut open display of “Kimmy, look at moi””, you know the time is approaching to crush the oppo.

 

[ferball]

You dismiss Pakistan vs India as not a serious threat?

Fmd

I think its less serious than people think. Hard to tell with Modi tho. He is a loopy prick.

Do you think they will nuke each other, or sort their s**t out the way they have for most of the last 50 years?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I think its less serious than people think. Hard to tell with Modi tho. He is a loopy prick.

Do you think they will nuke each other, or sort their sh*t out the way they have for most of the last 50 years?

they havent sorted s**t out over the past 50 years - its been a stand off

just IMO, Modi making India more a Hindu absolutist paradise, and Pakistan/Bangladesh doing similar the muslim way, the odds of someone doing stupid are rising

MAD only works when both sides dont want to die. religious nutters are happy to die in the name of their stupid faith, which nullifies MAD

 

[ferball]

Yeah I think there is some validity in your opinion.

Modi is a neoliberal too tho and a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India wouldn't be good for the market. He is also a machiavllian power hungry person and i think having power is his primary motivation. And I dunno where that leaves the idea of a nuclear exchange.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yeah I think there is some validity in your opinion.

Modi is a neoliberal too tho and a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India wouldn't be good for the market. He is also a machiavllian power hungry person and i think having power is his primary motivation. And I dunno where that leaves the idea of a nuclear exchange.

It's not Modi that's the problem. It's the fundamentalists who he's firing up.

It's always who the next guy is that's the worry

 

[ferball]

It's not Modi that's the problem. It's the fundamentalists who he's firing up.

It's always who the next guy is that's the worry

Lol.

The next Trump for example. Actually probably shouldn't laugh at that.

Are you talking about Hindutva?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Lol.

The next Trump for example. Actually probably shouldn't laugh at that.

Are you talking about Hindutva?

Trump's a good example.

He's the direct result of actions Newt started 25 years ago.

And yep, Hindutva is the type of party who worry me

 

[ferball]

Trump's a good example.

He's the direct result of actions Newt started 25 years ago.

And yep, Hindutva is the type of party who worry me

Since an American friend started describing Trump as a Kayfabe fascist its made alot of sense to me. Kayfabe is the word professional wrestlers use to describe their schtick. Its fake but they play up to it being real. When he compared Trump to Bolsanaro in Brazil the comparison made even more sense.

And the US is fairly close to fascism anyway, especially since the GWoT. Alot of things they would never have (publicly) supported were suddenly okay - torture for example. Its soft fascism, but the increasing reliance on private contractors in military situations, privatisation of prisons and then three strikes laws and the way they treat whistle blowers is disturbing. Danial Ellsberg was a national hero who was protected by their justice system. Snowden is still facing jail time and the current lame * president called for his execution 7 years ago.

Given all that ... the next Trump, who will probably not be known for their reality TV shows or appearances at the Wrestling, may not be playing the dog whistling fascist strong man for shits and giggles (which is what I think Trump was doing) but is instead deadly serious about all that stuff.

Hindutva is weird. It some real fascist potential. Some people think the Hindutva should include Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists and that its really a secular idea based on the history of Hinduism and the people who live on the subcontinent, but when you see the way the BJP uses it that doesn't seem like how it will resolve itself over time.

 

[CD Xbow]

Good

Since an American friend started describing Trump as a Kayfabe fascist its made alot of sense to me. Kayfabe is the word professional wrestlers use to describe their schtick. Its fake but they play up to it being real. When he compared Trump to Bolsanaro in Brazil the comparison made even more sense.

And the US is fairly close to fascism anyway, especially since the GWoT. Alot of things they would never have (publicly) supported were suddenly okay - torture for example. Its soft fascism, but the increasing reliance on private contractors in military situations, privatisation of prisons and then three strikes laws and the way they treat whistle blowers is disturbing. Danial Ellsberg was a national hero who was protected by their justice system. Snowden is still facing jail time and the current lame fu** president called for his execution 7 years ago.

Given all that ... the next Trump, who will probably not be known for their reality TV shows or appearances at the Wrestling, may not be playing the dog whistling fascist strong man for shits and giggles (which is what I think Trump was doing) but is instead deadly serious about all that stuff.

Hindutva is weird. It some real fascist potential. Some people think the Hindutva should include Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists and that its really a secular idea based on the history of Hinduism and the people who live on the subcontinent, but when you see the way the BJP uses it that doesn't seem like how it will resolve itself over time.

Agree, Trump has always had that WWF short of feel and the US does often skate close to fascism, in fact all the big players are pretty much on the ultranationalist trip at present, even the PRC, which is a self declared communist government, in reality is probably is closer to a fascist government in nature. No more singing the praises of the international proletariat or encouraging workers of the world to unite and revolt, it's all about Han nationalism. Throw in a very unhealthy dose of historical grievance, vilifying minorities, re-education camps, and themes of Han purity, you end up in a place not to different to Berlin in the late 30's.

Chilly start to the US China talks - US-China meeting begins with confrontation over Beijing’s human rights record (smh.com.au)

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Good

Agree, Trump has always had that WWF short of feel and the US does often skate close to fascism, in fact all the big players are pretty much on the ultranationalist trip at present, even the PRC, which is a self declared communist government, in reality is probably is closer to a fascist government in nature. No more singing the praises of the international proletariat or encouraging workers of the world to unite and revolt, it's all about Han nationalism. Throw in a very unhealthy dose of historical grievance, vilifying minorities, re-education camps, and themes of Han purity, you end up in a place not to different to Berlin in the late 30's.

Chilly start to the US China talks - US-China meeting begins with confrontation over Beijing’s human rights record (smh.com.au)

Explain “ fascism” for us so we can laugh at you

 

[CD Xbow]

Explain “ fascism” for us so we can laugh at you

Fascism has a slippery definition, but it usually includes most of the following:

Ultranationalism
Militarism
Authoritarianism
Contempt for democratic norms and human rights
Power concentrates in small numbers around a single male leader
Motivating sense of historical grievance
Close corporate/state/military relationship
Sense of manifest destiny
The primacy of the dominant group and identity through that group
Racialism
Vilification of the other, scapegoats
Nostalgia (usually for a past that didn't exist)


I think you will find the PRC ticks all those boxes. Just because it says communist doesn't mean it still is. Gone is the rhetoric of 'international proletariat uniting' or 'encouraging the workers of the world to revolt', it's all straight Chinese ultranationalism with unhealthy doses of 'han purity' and the dreaded Chinese dream. Remember the Nazis had the word 'socialist' in their name.

So it Fascism with all it's horrors.

From the Encyclopaedia Britannia.

"To unify a country, fascist movements propagated extreme nationalism that often went hand in hand with militarism and racial purity. The prosperity of a nation depended on a unified polity that put the group’s welfare above the individual’s. A strong, vigilant military was considered necessary to defend these group interests. And for some fascists “the group” was defined not by territorial boundaries but by racial identity. Nazism constituted the most insidious form of racial-purist fascist nationalism."

Paxton in his book, 'Anatomy of Fascism'

1. The primacy of the group. Supporting the group feels more important than maintaining either individual or universal rights.
2. Believing that one's group is a victim. This justifies any behavior against the group's enemies.
3. The belief that individualism and liberalism enable dangerous decadence and have a negative effect on the group.
4. A strong sense of community or brotherhood. This brotherhood's "unity and purity are forged by common conviction, if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary."
5. Individual self-esteem is tied up in the grandeur of the group. Paxton called this an "enhanced sense of identity and belonging."
6. Extreme support of a "natural" leader, who is always male. This results in one man taking on the role of national savior.
7. The beauty of violence and of will, when they are devoted to the group's success in a Darwinian struggle,

Again the PRC ticks all those boxes, too.

Still laughing?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Did you guys see John Cena's grovelling apology to China after describing Taiwan as a country?

 

[Rob R]

Did you guys see John Cena's grovelling apology to China after describing Taiwan as a country?

Its amazing how quickly personalities jump on twitter to support the cause of the week but just as quickly turn into pathetic cowards if there income is threatened.

On SM-G570F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Its amazing how quickly personalities jump on twitter to support the cause of the week but just as quickly turn into pathetic cowards if there income is threatened.

The weird thing about his apology is that he didn't actually correct himself or specify what he got wrong.