Chris Judd - free kicks

[Aphrodite]

Just a more embracing cosmopolitan kind of Carlton board.




Opposition supporters get charged double for expresso.

Triple for latte.

 

[Polo]

You obviously don't watch your own team, otherwise you'd include Mitchell's penchant for throwing amongst the umpire's blind spots. One recent example was so blatant that Mitchell was even laughing to himself.

Was going to say the same thing. The Hawks just about have a 1:1 handball-throw ratio (maybe a slight exaggeration), but I've noticed Judd get pinged multiple times for throwing in the last few games when the crowd have known (and replays have validated) that he got away a perfectly legal handball.

 

[dylan123]

Talking your usual shit i see ...and no it's not worth 2 cents...only a moron would believe that Judd is treated like others when he has the ball ....he gets pinged when he has no prior opportunity let alone before he can do a 360 ...unlike Franklin....and you can bet your balls he won't be allowed a natural arc when shooting for goal .

I havn't being paying attention to Judd that much over his last few games so I can't comment on them but to think he gets the rough end of the stick normally is laughable.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I havn't being paying attention to Judd that much over his last few games so I can't comment on them but to think he gets the rough end of the stick normally is laughable.

Go laugh somewhere else then. Judd gets scragged more than any midfielder in the AFL and is nowhere near the top of the free kick tally.

This year he has 28 frees for 27 against. For a ball playing inside midfielder that usually has more first touches than anybody in the AFL, that is a hell of a statistic. Still feeling amused?

 

[dylan123]

Go laugh somewhere else then. Judd gets scragged more than any midfielder in the AFL and is nowhere near the top of the free kick tally.

This year he has 28 frees for 27 against. For a ball playing inside midfielder that usually has more first touches than anybody in the AFL, that is a hell of a statistic. Still feeling amused?

For someone (not you, the poster I was quoting above) that suggests Franklin gets off easy with the umpires? Then Judd getting raw end of the stick is very amusing.

2010: 34 frees for with 15 against
2009: 34 frees for and 21 against
2008: 44 frees for and 23 against

Bar Ablett, I think you would have a pretty tough job to find someone that has had a run like Judd has had with the umpires.

Edit: With further looking into the stats, there are a few others guys such as Selwood who has got an amazing run yet I'm sure many of us complain with how easier he gets frees awarded to him.

 

[Nerv_01]

For someone (not you, the poster I was quoting above) that suggests Franklin gets off easy with the umpires? Then Judd getting raw end of the stick is very amusing.

2010: 34 frees for with 15 against
2009: 34 frees for and 21 against
2008: 44 frees for and 23 against

Bar Ablett, I think you would have a pretty tough job to find someone that has had a run like Judd has had with the umpires.

Edit: With further looking into the stats, there are a few others guys such as Selwood who has got an amazing run yet I'm sure many of us complain with how easier he gets frees awarded to him.

Through those years you listed the general idea of the opposition was 'Stop Judd, Stop Carlton'. Now teams have to worry about Murphy more than they used to so teams have taken to blocking him completely from stoppages. The man is scragged more than any other player in the AFL and is in the top 10 for tackles, most of those free kicks paid would be near on impossible to argue against. They have been pinging him for HTB when he gets the ball away legitimately it's ridiculous.

Everyone always perpetuates this myth about him getting special treatment FFS he gets paid about a quarter of the free kicks that are actually there. Chris Judd is not a dirty player as much as people like to pretend, im in awe of the man's ability to keep his cool despite people holding him and impeding his run at pretty much every opportunity. Compare this to Lance Franklin who regularly gets suspended for running past players with the elbow out and has been known to stage for free kicks (see 4th quarter of Hawthorn vs Geelong the second time) it doesnt surprise me at all the Franklin gives away as many free kicks as he does.

 

[PP34]

Haven't really taken notice of the stats. But he does try to break lots of tackes so of course he'll get pinged.

 

[blue healer]

I havn't being paying attention to Judd that much over his last few games so I can't comment on them but to think he gets the rough end of the stick normally is laughable.

You obviously haven't been paying attention lately so why would you bother to comment at all?

Your own stats quoted in a later post are the reason this thread was created.

Yes, his style of play is such that he, and many like Ablett and Selwood, will finish on the positive side of free kicks. Opposition supporters will always moan about this but that is the history.

Suddenly he has, in the last 6 games, gone from one of the most favoured to the indisputable villain of frees.

My point is: Why is this so because he, IMO, is playing the same as he has played all of his career, the only thing that has changed of late is the way he is now being umpired.

I'm heartily sick of the reaction of the umpiring dept which results in "flavour of the day" focus on various rules in reaction to periodic media and public outcry.

Why the **** can't we umpire consistently from game 1 to game 185?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Haven't really taken notice of the stats. But he does try to break lots of tackes so of course he'll get pinged.

It comes down to when the tackle is applied. Take the ball, have an option to dish off, get tackled and try to break free = holding the ball. Take the ball, tackled instantly or tackled before getting the ball in many cases, try to get the ball free = not holding the ball.

You are basically suggesting he should surrender in the tackle otherwise.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

For someone (not you, the poster I was quoting above) that suggests Franklin gets off easy with the umpires? Then Judd getting raw end of the stick is very amusing.

2010: 34 frees for with 15 against
2009: 34 frees for and 21 against
2008: 44 frees for and 23 against

Bar Ablett, I think you would have a pretty tough job to find someone that has had a run like Judd has had with the umpires.

Edit: With further looking into the stats, there are a few others guys such as Selwood who has got an amazing run yet I'm sure many of us complain with how easier he gets frees awarded to him.

As I said, you can take your amusement elsewhere. You are not here to have a shot at our posters for posting an opinion on our board.

However, you did say that you haven't seen Judd's last few games. When his season stats were presented, you have gone back 1-3 years to try and prove a point. If you had bothered reading you would see that it is the change in umpiring that we are concerned about. Judd is getting pinged for holding the ball now where others might not.

The Franklin example was one example, don't turn it into a statement it wasn't intended to be. Don't compare key forwards with inside midfielders either. One will almost always receive less frees and give away more frees than the other.

Since you have no idea about Judd's 2011 season and were unaware of the change in the way he is being umpired, you really have little more to offer this discussion.

 

[Faz 2000]

I think there's probably some truth (not that ANYONE would admit it) that the umpires are keen to ping him to dispel the public impression that he's an umpire's pet. The silly thing is, I think he deserves the free kicks he gets (due to the scragging, etc), but it's the Brownlow votes that have the great unwashed worried about him being the umpire's fav. And to a degree, they're a bit right. He has (on a few occasions) got votes when he probably shouldn't have. As has Goodes and a few others.

Of the players that get better armchair rides from umps than both Judd AND GAJ, you could start with teammates (former or current), in Murphy and Selwood. Both those guys have mastered getting their head down low so they're hard to tackle legally, plus the duck-and-reverse tackle evasion which also often results in a free kick.

But realistically, I don't think one can begrudge any of those 4 (or the many more like them) for winning frees and plaudits, because they do the hard stuff, win the ball and EARN it.

 

[Claypigeon]

Is this even an official rule? If it is, it shouldn't be.

Agree that Judd is getting treated extremely harshly of late.

The '360' is an official rule and quite misunderstood and the interpretation suffers. .. I haven't got the rule handy but my understanding* is:

That if the tackler swings the player 360 degrees and the player has his hands free then its holding the ball as he has had prior opportunity to dispose of it. ..

However where the misunderstanding comes in is that it has to be the tackle that forces the 360 degree motion. .. ie a player performing a blind turn to avoid a tackle shouldn't be pinged if the tackle is broken. ..

*I could prove my own point about misunderstanding

Note: This is one of the few areas where Buddy Franklin seems to have the umpires favour. .. As he seems to often gets turned 360 before breaking the tackle and kicking a goal. .. This goes for other forwards too (a bit like ignoring the 15paces rule for running too far when a goal is scored). ..

However Mids like Judd, GAJ, Hodge, etc. often get pinged for the 360 rule even if they go 180 as they are strong in the tackle and often break the momentum to give the ball off. ..

 

[dylan123]

You obviously haven't been paying attention lately so why would you bother to comment at all?

Because my post wasn't to do with his last 6 games "only a moron would believe that Judd is treated like others when he has the ball " it was to do with this which to me sounded like his career, not over the past month and a half which is what I was disagreeing with (which it looks like you agree with from "gone from one of the most favored").

My point is: Why is this so because he, IMO, is playing the same as he has played all of his career, the only thing that has changed of late is the way he is now being umpired.

As I said earlier, I haven't been keeping a close eye on him but has it been just a few umpires that have been treating him harshly or all of them? Because it seems out of the blue as I don't believe the pressure of "the umpires love Judd" would be getting to the umpires only recently when it has been going on all season.

I'm heartily sick of the reaction of the umpiring dept which results in "flavour of the day" focus on various rules in reaction to periodic media and public outcry.

Why the **** can't we umpire consistently from game 1 to game 185?

^This

As I said, you can take your amusement elsewhere. You are not here to have a shot at our posters for posting an opinion on our board.

I'm not having a shot at "your" posters, I'm only disagreeing with something in which he said which I don't believe is against the rules...

However, you did say that you haven't seen Judd's last few games. When his season stats were presented, you have gone back 1-3 years to try and prove a point. If you had bothered reading you would see that it is the change in umpiring that we are concerned about. Judd is getting pinged for holding the ball now where others might not.

As I stated above, it was in reply to the comment "only a moron would believe that Judd is treated like others when he has the ball ". If he means only during the past month and a half then I'm wrong but I viewed that as his whole career/time at Carlton.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm not having a shot at "your" posters, I'm only disagreeing with something in which he said which I don't believe is against the rules...

If you are expressing how amused you are at the comments of someone you disagree with, then you are belittling them. Possibly express yourself a little better.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Talking your usual shit i see ...and no it's not worth 2 cents...only a moron would believe that Judd is treated like others when he has the ball ....he gets pinged when he has no prior opportunity let alone before he can do a 360 ...unlike Franklin....and you can bet your balls he won't be allowed a natural arc when shooting for goal .

With all due respect, I was just trying to offer a neutral opinion. I agreed Judd gets a rough deal in regards to stoppage situations. In regards to Buddy, he is the most heavily penalised player in negative free kick differentials over a 5 year period since they have been keeping stats. So far in his career, he has recieved 150 and given away 289 free kicks. A lot of the free kicks he gives away are there no doubt, but it's the ones he doesn't receive that are annoying.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-hawthorn-hawks--lance-franklin

Anyhow, this isn't about Buddy. I geneuinely believe what I said in that Judd cops a rough deal in regards to being mauled at stoppages, whilst is shown a bit more leniency when in possession of the ball than other players perhaps are. I don't believe he is massively mistreated like some Carltons supporters do, nor do I suscribe to the general publics theory that he gets a free ride from umpires. Probably somehwere in between lies the truth tbh.

 

[blue healer]

Anyhow, this isn't about Buddy. I geneuinely believe what I said in that Judd cops a rough deal in regards to being mauled at stoppages, whilst is shown a bit more leniency when in possession of the ball than other players perhaps are. I don't believe he is massively mistreated like some Carltons supporters do, nor do I suscribe to the general publics theory that he gets a free ride from umpires. Probably somehwere in between lies the truth tbh.

Much of what you say is true and overall I don't think he's massively mistreated by the umpires.

But, and this is the point of the thread, over the last 6 games he has been massively mistreated by the umpires and the burning question is why?

I see no indication that he has changed his playing style and yet suddenly he's the most penalised player in the league. I would like to see some rational explanation of this rather than pointing out his past history.

I don't give one tin **** what happened in the past, what's happening now is what concerns me.

And for the Adelaide dude I find it hard to believe that we have had the same 3 umpires for the last 6 matches.

 

[blue healer]

Because my post wasn't to do with his last 6 games "only a moron would believe that Judd is treated like others when he has the ball " it was to do with this which to me sounded like his career, not over the past month and a half which is what I was disagreeing with (which it looks like you agree with from "gone from one of the most favored").

The original post was about the last 6 games and I did not make the "moron" statement.

By disregarding the basic reason for the thread and using the "Judd's the umpires pet" argument you are merely trolling. If you have nothing further to offer stay on your own board.

 

[Lukesta63]

Watching the pies v freo game on the weekend I was staggered at the amount of time a pies player would get tackled, spin 360 and then get a handpass off and not get pinged for it.

Even Buddy's goal on the weekend where he stood in a tackle, spun 360 before breaking the tackle and kicking the goal would have been called holding the ball had it been the bald man in navy blue jumper with 5 on the back.

This is the whinge I get from oppn friends,"Ohh Judd gets caught,spun around 720 Deg's and gets the handball away" it should be holding the ball!!!
FFS holding onto the guy is NOT a tackle!!!
You go to a game and you hear 'Ohh ya cant touch him',thats right idiots,not when he hasn't got the ball!!!!

Seriously I'm usually forgiving of the umps,but when it comes to incorrect disposal they drive me wild!

N.B Esp. with cheats like Monfries,Selwood and the tip rat milking bs frees!!!

 

[Lukesta63]

Of course it has. The tackle starts 2 secs before he even takes possession, and if he doesn't dispose of it immediately it's holding the ball. Hell, even if he does get a disposal it's still holding the ball lately.



None. He'll still get the votes because his form is often too good to ignore. The umpires are just enjoying a bit of grandstanding by pinging him relentlessly at the moment.



I'd wait and see how they behave in the game vs St Kilda. If they keep crucifying him it might be worth asking about. Politely. The last thing we need is to go into finals with the umps targeting him like they are currently.

No Knavey,dont worry about whingeing,how about this instead!!

Any time a player gets within a metre of Judd ,bump,scratch,kick,bite,knock the prick over ,just let them know "No more ****ing around with the champ"

 

[Lukesta63]

For someone (not you, the poster I was quoting above) that suggests Franklin gets off easy with the umpires? Then Judd getting raw end of the stick is very amusing.

2010: 34 frees for with 15 against
2009: 34 frees for and 21 against
2008: 44 frees for and 23 against

Bar Ablett, I think you would have a pretty tough job to find someone that has had a run like Judd has had with the umpires.

Edit: With further looking into the stats, there are a few others guys such as Selwood who has got an amazing run yet I'm sure many of us complain with how easier he gets frees awarded to him.

Hang on mate! The guy is one of the leading tacklers,watch a game, and you'll see most of his frees are for dis-possessing his opponent.

 

[Claypigeon]

This is the whinge I get from oppn friends,"Ohh Judd gets caught,spun around 720 Deg's and gets the handball away" it should be holding the ball!!!
FFS holding onto the guy is NOT a tackle!!!
You go to a game and you hear 'Ohh ya cant touch him',thats right idiots,not when he hasn't got the ball!!!!

Seriously I'm usually forgiving of the umps,but when it comes to incorrect disposal they drive me wild!

N.B Esp. with cheats like Monfries,Selwood and the tip rat milking bs frees!!!

Actually holding onto a guy is a tackle. .. A player could run along dragging a guy behind him and still get pinged. .. I do believe the 360 spin in a tackle rule only applies if the tackler forces the motion otherwise they should revisit it as most* blind turns are holding the ball (as the play is usually atleast partially tackled at the time). ..

*Except the Watts ballerina turn in front of McLean. ..