Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates pt3 - The Verdict

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sprockets said:
Did they get prints from the Huntingdale (kimono) attack though? And they still had prints on file from the HH attack, which was a 'simple' assault? It's not beyond belief that a family member or the ex helped police close in.

It could be that they wanted the ex to shush because she might have mentioned how she helped them get him, so they stopped her for her own good.
Click to expand...
They had a fingerprint they had got from one the Huntingdale attempted break-ins. his guilty plea for those crimes locked in that connection.

We know the ex wife #2 knew about the HH assault. He told her about a few months after they met but was under the impression it was just an assault (her words not mine). Call me strange but even just an assault on any woman should have set off alarm bells but I accept that someone devout to a cause, namely saving peoples souls, and freshly in love could see that as a challenge or a reason to forgive.
We also know she said she feared her for life while getting the financial notes in 2014, a year before she left so i don't see that as the trigger per se, her reasoning developed over years not in a split second. She also told us that she was sick of all the lies so at some point she may have discovered there was more to the HH assault than he originally let on or it could be she couldn't work out where all money was going and she caught him he out on lie about it. If she had confronted him about it he may have reacted badly, lost his cool, and that scared the bejeezus out her, at which point she had decided to leave. I think too much emphasis has been put on the notes simply because they prove he did visit Claremont, and that was not why she took them notes seen as it would be another year before she left. Why takes notes for all the way back in time? Well if she found discrepancies in the finances in the present time she may have decided to keep going back in time to see how long he has been lying about it.
I don't doubt that he may have turned her daughter against her over time either, it is one of them things narcissists do, or it could just be that to the daughter he was dad because he was all she had as a dad from a young age.
 
sprockets said:
Did they get prints from the Huntingdale (kimono) attack though? And they still had prints on file from the HH attack, which was a 'simple' assault? It's not beyond belief that a family member or the ex helped police close in.

It could be that they wanted the ex to shush because she might have mentioned how she helped them get him, so they stopped her for her own good.
Click to expand...

to me the issue is the timeline. we know the kimono was retested in 2013, and the DNA matched CG and KK. if this was such a big breakthrough in the CSK case, you would think WAPOL would have every man and their dog on it, and be checking the data bases to see what else happened in that area at the same time. they were apparently only on BRE for a couple of weeks before retrieving the sprite bottle, which was just prior to his arrest in December 2016. so we can conclude that BRE was only considered a strong suspect since about early November 2016 or later. this then begs the question - why did it take 3 and a bit years to link the kimono to BRE? the background crime check of the kimono incident highlighted a case with fingerprints, which matched prints already in the system to give them a name. we are led to believe this back ground check and computer check took 3 years? bit of a stretch in my book.

my thinking is the kimono matched, but the cops didn't know where to go from there, maybe the old case files weren't uploaded to the database along with the fingerprints. someone tips the bucket on BRE around 2015/2016 and mentions his past about stealing panties etc. (this could of been a known thing in his family, and a source of merriment or ridicule.) the cops check back through reports for those crimes and find the fingerprints which match, and also a flag on the kimono incident saying it was linked to the CSK. these cops pass on the info to macro, who suddenly get very interested in BRE. wife #2 could of been 'scared stiffless' as the cops may have asked her questions, and asked her to procure any details that can put BRE in the area at the time - hence the copying of the bank statements. prosecution and defence would also have cut her off before she revealed that she dropped old mate in it. this also fits in with the complete breakdown in the marriage, from what I remember she left around late 2015? (will need to find confirmation of this).

The only stickler in the above theory is what caused this person to drop BRE in to the old bill. it could of been something quite simple, such as a threat that drew likeness to the csk crimes, discovery of his stories, a slip of the tongue etc.
 
Why did it take 3 years?
How long does it take for DNA testing to be completed?
To find vehicles he owned during the crime period?
Trace his movement during the crime period?
How long does it take to do a thorough analysis on the vehicle, fibres etc?
How long does it take to find a source for them fibres?
How long to interview all them witnesses?
... to dig up as much evidence as possible?

How long does it take to put a concrete case together?

On CSI about an hour, in real life about 3 years perhaps?
 

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Krusty Crab said:
to me the issue is the timeline. we know the kimono was retested in 2013, and the DNA matched CG and KK. if this was such a big breakthrough in the CSK case, you would think WAPOL would have every man and their dog on it, and be checking the data bases to see what else happened in that area at the same time. they were apparently only on BRE for a couple of weeks before retrieving the sprite bottle, which was just prior to his arrest in December 2016. so we can conclude that BRE was only considered a strong suspect since about early November 2016 or later. this then begs the question - why did it take 3 and a bit years to link the kimono to BRE? the background crime check of the kimono incident highlighted a case with fingerprints, which matched prints already in the system to give them a name. we are led to believe this back ground check and computer check took 3 years? bit of a stretch in my book.

my thinking is the kimono matched, but the cops didn't know where to go from there, maybe the old case files weren't uploaded to the database along with the fingerprints. someone tips the bucket on BRE around 2015/2016 and mentions his past about stealing panties etc. (this could of been a known thing in his family, and a source of merriment or ridicule.) the cops check back through reports for those crimes and find the fingerprints which match, and also a flag on the kimono incident saying it was linked to the CSK. these cops pass on the info to macro, who suddenly get very interested in BRE. wife #2 could of been 'scared stiffless' as the cops may have asked her questions, and asked her to procure any details that can put BRE in the area at the time - hence the copying of the bank statements. prosecution and defence would also have cut her off before she revealed that she dropped old mate in it. this also fits in with the complete breakdown in the marriage, from what I remember she left around late 2015? (will need to find confirmation of this).

The only stickler in the above theory is what caused this person to drop BRE in to the old bill. it could of been something quite simple, such as a threat that drew likeness to the csk crimes, discovery of his stories, a slip of the tongue etc.
Click to expand...



The kimono was put in a queue for retesting in 2013. It was tested on November 23, 2016 and the results came back on Dec 1.
 
Krusty Crab said:
why did it take 3 and a bit years to link the kimono to BRE?
Click to expand...
Maybe because in 2013 either
- they did not ask Telstra for a list of all Telecom staff that lived around Huntingdale in 1988
- Telstra no longer had the residential addresses of any Telecom staff working in 1988.
- Telstra was asked for the residential addresses of any Telecom staff working in 1988 and refused to provide it
- Telstra provided the residential addresses of Telecom staff working in 1988, but BRE's name was for some reason missing from the results

Back in the threads and live blogs is info on what HR data Telstra had going back to what years of Telecom operations.
 
Kurve said:
Ohhh thank you, I knew it was a Green something or other. Her post wasn't to do with physical healing, it was protection against a danger. Very, very early days it was that I found it. Then like most stuff, it vanished.
Click to expand...
I used to give them to people who were having some sort of personal problems or grief in their lives (wayward husband or children, loss of income, depression etc). It wasn't just protection it offered them, but support, strength and help to go on or deal with what ever their problems were. It was like knowing some one had your back.
 
Rockman928 said:
The kimono was put in a queue for retesting in 2013. It was tested on November 23, 2016 and the results came back on Dec 1.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Then re-open Huntingdale files 1st few days in December, find prints, load into system, get match to HH and finally they have a definite name.
Put him under surveillance, pick up Sprite bottle evening of 19Dec20, DNA test and waalaa. Killer in custody 3 days later.

Only niggling question ..... Why was the Kimono chosen as part of a review of potentially related crimes to CSK case specifically?

Another reporting error could explain it, but if not, I just think its too much of a stretch to believe that incidences of prowling, break & enters & clothing thefts in Huntingdale in 1988 were crimes that would jump out as being potentially related to a rape & 3 murders 7+ years later & particularly when there's no evidence of any of those crimes being remotely related to those committed in Claremont.

Either the Kimono was randomly put in for testing and they got lucky .....or...... someone dropped them something which caused them to re-look on the other side of town at far lesser offences specifically.
 
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one eyed spy said:
Exactly. Then re-open Huntingdale files 1st few days in December, find prints, load into system, get match to HH and finally they have a definite name.
Put him under surveillance, pick up Sprite bottle evening of 19Dec20, DNA test and waalaa. Killer in custody 3 days later.

Only niggling question ..... Why was the Kimono chosen as part of a review of potentially related crimes to CSK case specifically?

Another reporting error could explain it, but if not, I just think its too much of a stretch to believe that incidences of prowling, break & enters & clothing thefts in Huntingdale in 1988 were crimes that would jump out as being potentially related to a rape & 3 murders 7+ years later & particularly when there's no evidence of any of those crimes being remotely related to those committed in Claremont.

Either the Kimono was randomly put in for testing and they got lucky .....or...... someone dropped them something which caused them to re-look on the other side of town at far lesser offences specifically.
Click to expand...
I thought it was the Huntingdale Crimes that were under routine review and they got lucky when the DNA test results where put into the system and were found to match the DNA from Karrakatta and CG. That is how I interpreted what Ms Bargbagallo said in her opening statement, I may have it wrong.
 
one eyed spy said:
Either the Kimono was randomly put in for testing and they got lucky .....or...... someone dropped them something which caused them to re-look on the other side of town at far lesser offences specifically.
Click to expand...

I don't know what the protocols generally are but the Kimono went over to the lab by special courier and investigators had a match within a day or so iirc, so this 'queue' wasn't actually in the lab. There's a reference to this somewhere.

EDIT: I remembered where I heard it, from Tim on one of the podcasts.
 
Kurve said:
I don't know what the protocols generally are but the Kimono went over to the lab by special courier and investigators had a match within a day or so iirc, so this 'queue' wasn't actually in the lab. There's a reference to this somewhere.
Click to expand...


I found this article from Dec 2016, it seems to be that most of the time delay came from the kimono being put into storage for 28 years.


"... The case was never solved and the robe was put into storage at WA Police’s evidence receive centre, where it sat unnoticed alongside hundreds of thousands of exhibits until just a few months ago.

As part of a continuing operation to retest old evidence with new technology, officers from the State Crime Operations team did DNA tests on the kimono.

It is understood the DNA samples came back as a match to samples already on the police database — samples that had been recovered from the body of the third Claremont victim, Ciara Glennon, and from a 17-year-old woman who was grabbed in a Claremont street in 1995 and then assaulted at the nearby Karrakatta cemetery.
..."

www.perthnow.com.au

Silk kimono the vital clue

A WOMAN'S silk dressing gown stolen off a washing line 28 years ago is believed to have been the vital clue that helped lead police to finally make an arrest in the Claremont serial killer case.
www.perthnow.com.au www.perthnow.com.au
 
Krusty Crab said:
to me the issue is the timeline. we know the kimono was retested in 2013, and the DNA matched CG and KK. if this was such a big breakthrough in the CSK case, you would think WAPOL would have every man and their dog on it, and be checking the data bases to see what else happened in that area at the same time. they were apparently only on BRE for a couple of weeks before retrieving the sprite bottle, which was just prior to his arrest in December 2016. so we can conclude that BRE was only considered a strong suspect since about early November 2016 or later. this then begs the question - why did it take 3 and a bit years to link the kimono to BRE? the background crime check of the kimono incident highlighted a case with fingerprints, which matched prints already in the system to give them a name. we are led to believe this back ground check and computer check took 3 years? bit of a stretch in my book.

my thinking is the kimono matched, but the cops didn't know where to go from there, maybe the old case files weren't uploaded to the database along with the fingerprints. someone tips the bucket on BRE around 2015/2016 and mentions his past about stealing panties etc. (this could of been a known thing in his family, and a source of merriment or ridicule.) the cops check back through reports for those crimes and find the fingerprints which match, and also a flag on the kimono incident saying it was linked to the CSK. these cops pass on the info to macro, who suddenly get very interested in BRE. wife #2 could of been 'scared stiffless' as the cops may have asked her questions, and asked her to procure any details that can put BRE in the area at the time - hence the copying of the bank statements. prosecution and defence would also have cut her off before she revealed that she dropped old mate in it. this also fits in with the complete breakdown in the marriage, from what I remember she left around late 2015? (will need to find confirmation of this).

The only stickler in the above theory is what caused this person to drop BRE in to the old bill. it could of been something quite simple, such as a threat that drew likeness to the csk crimes, discovery of his stories, a slip of the tongue etc.
Click to expand...
So, it wasn't a matter of searching the data base, because documentation from 1988 was most likely still in an archive box. Thinking hundreds of individual police reports and witness statements, which needed to be looked at by hand. I understand now, why it would have taken three years, because it was such a labor intensive task. I also wonder if historic police reports and witness statements may have been saved, electronically under the persons address, making it even more difficult to locate. When I spoke to the Cold Case Squad about BREs juvenile antics, they weren't already aware - makes sense now, the documentation hadn't been scanned and uploaded onto the data base.
 
Deva said:
Just finished the Enigma of the Dark and i have to be honest , i reluctantly bought it not being a fan of Tim's during the trial pod casts. BUT... i really liked it!! It was very well written and very thorough, he covered a lot of just about everything from the very start of the hearings until the verdict. While a lot of us that have followed this trial closely there was nothing that we haven't heard before but to others it would be very informative. He certainly has a way with words and explained it all very well, highly recommend it.
Looking forward to Bret's book now in January.
Click to expand...
Hi Deva,
I edited the book so I'm glad to hear you liked it. I'll pass that on to Tim. I'm the 'Niall' in the acknowledgements.
 

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BonzaRam said:
Why did it take 3 years?
How long does it take for DNA testing to be completed?
To find vehicles he owned during the crime period?
Trace his movement during the crime period?
How long does it take to do a thorough analysis on the vehicle, fibres etc?
How long does it take to find a source for them fibres?
How long to interview all them witnesses?
... to dig up as much evidence as possible?

How long does it take to put a concrete case together?

On CSI about an hour, in real life about 3 years perhaps?
Click to expand...

most of these items were looked into post arrest. my comment about 3 years is from when the kimono was retested and a dna link was found between it, CG and KK; and the subsequent arrest of BRE. we have been led to believe that the results of the kimono DNA test sparked a push to solve that cold case as it would quite possibly high light the CSK. that case was solved by doing a background search of other crimes in the local area around the same time, where they found fingerprints that matched BRE. so we are supposed to believe it took 3 years to do a local area background search for other crimes, and then compare some finger prints. this also being done with a team of detectives.
 
BFew said:
Maybe because in 2013 either
- they did not ask Telstra for a list of all Telecom staff that lived around Huntingdale in 1988
- Telstra no longer had the residential addresses of any Telecom staff working in 1988.
- Telstra was asked for the residential addresses of any Telecom staff working in 1988 and refused to provide it
- Telstra provided the residential addresses of Telecom staff working in 1988, but BRE's name was for some reason missing from the results

Back in the threads and live blogs is info on what HR data Telstra had going back to what years of Telecom operations.
Click to expand...

telstra has nothing to do with linking the kimono to BRE?
 
Krusty Crab said:
interesting. will have to go back through the info to check that, i have it down as being retested in 2013. thanks rockman
Click to expand...

If all these evidence items were being retested over a three year span in a routine exercise, it might be interesting to know how many other crimes were solved? Or was it just the CSK they pinged?
 
Kurve said:
Anyhow, I've had email from Bret Christian and he said I can tell you "all will soon be revealed". We're in for some surprises.

He has been checking in here. :thumbsu:
Click to expand...
Did you reach out to him or was it a random "calm your farm crew", coz I'm about to blow you fking socks off?
In his words of course, not mine.
 
Kurve said:
Anyhow, I've had email from Bret Christian and he said I can tell you "all will soon be revealed". We're in for some surprises.

He has been checking in here. :thumbsu:
Click to expand...
Is Bret waiting for appeal process before release? 21 days should work out to about then?
 
Last edited:
Hello all! I just saw this online Zoom event that's taking place in February with Bret. Might be worth tapping in?

www.readings.com.au

Bret Christian in conversation

Please note: This is an online event. Author and veteran journalist Bret Christian joins us online to talk about his compelling new work of true crime, Stalking Claremont. Working as a news reporter in Perth in the mid-90s, Christian found himself in the thick of what would turn out to…
www.readings.com.au www.readings.com.au
 
Niall76 said:
Hi Deva,
I edited the book so I'm glad to hear you liked it. I'll pass that on to Tim. I'm the 'Niall' in the acknowledgements.
Click to expand...
Hi Niall, credit where credit is due it was really well written, enjoyed all of it and have lent it to a few friends that have enjoyed it too. Good job to both of you.
 
zedx said:
I used to give them to people who were having some sort of personal problems or grief in their lives (wayward husband or children, loss of income, depression etc). It wasn't just protection it offered them, but support, strength and help to go on or deal with what ever their problems were. It was like knowing some one had your back.
Click to expand...

This from the Vincentians, the reading is a bit tedious but I found a reference to what she was using it for specifically and it makes sense in how I understood her post. They 'needed them!'

5. Protection from Satan for those who wear or promote the scapular

vincentians.com

The Green Scapular and Its Favors - We are Vincentians

PART ONE: Biography of Sister Justine Bisqueyburu Daughter of Clement Bisqueyburu, merchant, and of Ursula Albine d’Anglade, our Sister was born at Mauleon (Lower Pyrenees) on November 11, 1817, feast of St. Martin, was Baptized ... Read More
vincentians.com
 
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