Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Kurve]

Long weekends with no reason for being there maybe. Australia Day weekend, St Patricks Day, Foundation Day weekend?

Its possible someone took notes or made a solid mental note in those circumstances, either a resident or another Telstra worker scenario.

There may even have been someone who was suspicious of it but let it go thinking they were being a bit paranoid, disloyal if a work colleague they had a decent relationship with

That guy who found some items in the sand at Cottesloe after Julie Cutler went missing, hung onto those manky things for years and years.

 

[GreyCrow]

There was a report of the Cottesloe Exchange being used in connection to a Telstra suspect?

Just putting 2 and 2 together. I have no idea at all

Following this

I’m led to believe there is a witness that saw the accused parked under the exchange.

Witness sees Telstra guy on the night one of the girls disappears , makes note

Other people talk about Telstra Guy at clubs etc

Telstra pest in nightclubs is questioned and suspected but let go

 

[FeelingThroaty]

He had met them before in Cottesloe hotels and possibly work through a number of channels is my guess. He may have even seen a couple of them prior to their abduction that night in Cottesloe.
He pulls up pissed, throws the usual line, looking for damsels in distress and in they get to his Telstra car, familiar with his face.

While he sat on the peripheral in Claremont carparks, it sounds like he entered Cottesloe hotels.

A lot of time spent sitting in carparks outside hotel carparks by the sound of it watching girls come and go. One attack, a girl abducted from a Cottesloe carpark then taken to the Lakeside Drive-in near Swanbourne suggests he was potentially watching from the carpark.

There was real potential for researching who they are, doing all the homework, mostly from Cottesloe, the nearest water hole from the exchange and the area he worked at the time.

Huntingdale sounds like he knew of many places around Huntingdale where females lived of his discovery.

He might have built up a huge profile of different girls over time that went to Cottesloe hotels etc.

Do note also, Deborah Anderson was left behind a bottleshop on Dance street, Middle Swan in 2000. Cutler was opposite Forrest st, Cottesloe in 1988.

Someone had gone to Bali 88. The Madora bay house bought around the 88 fiscal year. Media reports suggest the accused lived with a long term partner at Madora Bay. Did someone move out of mummies, then into Madora Bay around Cutlers disappearance?

I do wonder where Sarah Spiers might be..

 

[Kurve]

Interesting couple of paragraphs on pre trial press and social media in the decision to judge only trial.

The factors identified by the State
Pre-trial publicity
12 The State described the pre-trial publicity as 'unprecedented'. Whether that emphatic description is historically accurate is not to the point. What is obvious from Ms Bowman's affidavit is that the Claremont Series generated publicity that was:

(a) extensive and pervasive – the publicity was across all forms of public media: print, broadcast, online news publications and social media;

(b) enduring – the events forming the Claremont Series did not fade from public memory with the passage of time and they remained the subject of ongoing media and public attention and concern;

(c) often speculative – various factors contributed to the speculative nature of much of the pre-trial publicity, including publicity given to different lines of police inquiry, the proliferation of social media in the intervening years and the time between the relevant events and the arrest of the respondent;

(d) (understandably) sympathetic to the grief experienced by the families of Ms Spiers, Ms Rimmer and Ms Glennon.

13 Certain aspects of the pre‑trial publicity should be further noted in light of the issues raised on the indictment.[5] First, most of the pre‑trial publicity assumed that each victim had been unlawfully killed.



Second, much of the pre‑trial publicity assumed that the same person was implicated in the death of each victim. That was most obviously indicated by the use of the expression 'the Claremont serial killer'. The expression has obviously prejudicial connotations. Further, the expression is so ubiquitous that it has become an immediately recognisable means of denoting the events that are the subject of the charges alleged against the respondent. Publicity prior to the respondent's arrest was to the effect that the police were looking for the Claremont serial killer; publicity since the respondent's arrest suggested the police had charged the Claremont serial killer and the same person had been responsible for other offences. Some of the publicity since the respondent's arrest conveyed the impression that the police had finally caught 'the Claremont serial killer' after many years of investigation.

15 Third, the pre‑trial publicity incorporated much speculation about matters that may be relevant, or may be wrongly perceived to be relevant, to the events that are the subject of the charges and the prosecution of the charges – for example, the identity of persons who might be implicated in the events and possible connections between the events and other alleged crimes; police enquiries and the focus of investigations and reviews conducted by the police; what evidence might be relevant to the charges alleged by the State; and the personal circumstances of the respondent. Numerous items have appeared in print and other forms of news media speculating on connections between the Claremont Series and other events that have been characterised as either 'unsolved crimes' or 'mysterious disappearances'. Many social media postings have speculated about either aspects of the police investigation or the evidence supposedly available to the State.

https://ecourts.justice.wa.gov.au/e...ision?id=4ceddd03-f40c-4349-b9dd-3e4b8817f1ef

 

[Melsy]

Interesting couple of paragraphs on pre trial press and social media in the decision to judge only trial.

The factors identified by the State
Pre-trial publicity
12 The State described the pre-trial publicity as 'unprecedented'. Whether that emphatic description is historically accurate is not to the point. What is obvious from Ms Bowman's affidavit is that the Claremont Series generated publicity that was:

(a) extensive and pervasive – the publicity was across all forms of public media: print, broadcast, online news publications and social media;

(b) enduring – the events forming the Claremont Series did not fade from public memory with the passage of time and they remained the subject of ongoing media and public attention and concern;

(c) often speculative – various factors contributed to the speculative nature of much of the pre-trial publicity, including publicity given to different lines of police inquiry, the proliferation of social media in the intervening years and the time between the relevant events and the arrest of the respondent;

(d) (understandably) sympathetic to the grief experienced by the families of Ms Spiers, Ms Rimmer and Ms Glennon.

13 Certain aspects of the pre‑trial publicity should be further noted in light of the issues raised on the indictment.[5] First, most of the pre‑trial publicity assumed that each victim had been unlawfully killed.

Second, much of the pre‑trial publicity assumed that the same person was implicated in the death of each victim. That was most obviously indicated by the use of the expression 'the Claremont serial killer'. The expression has obviously prejudicial connotations. Further, the expression is so ubiquitous that it has become an immediately recognisable means of denoting the events that are the subject of the charges alleged against the respondent. Publicity prior to the respondent's arrest was to the effect that the police were looking for the Claremont serial killer; publicity since the respondent's arrest suggested the police had charged the Claremont serial killer and the same person had been responsible for other offences. Some of the publicity since the respondent's arrest conveyed the impression that the police had finally caught 'the Claremont serial killer' after many years of investigation.

15 Third, the pre‑trial publicity incorporated much speculation about matters that may be relevant, or may be wrongly perceived to be relevant, to the events that are the subject of the charges and the prosecution of the charges – for example, the identity of persons who might be implicated in the events and possible connections between the events and other alleged crimes; police enquiries and the focus of investigations and reviews conducted by the police; what evidence might be relevant to the charges alleged by the State; and the personal circumstances of the respondent. Numerous items have appeared in print and other forms of news media speculating on connections between the Claremont Series and other events that have been characterised as either 'unsolved crimes' or 'mysterious disappearances'. Many social media postings have speculated about either aspects of the police investigation or the evidence supposedly available to the State.

https://ecourts.justice.wa.gov.au/e...ision?id=4ceddd03-f40c-4349-b9dd-3e4b8817f1ef

It was stated that LW would never have a jury trial due to the publicity of the case. This case was always going to be judge alone due to its publcity. They can broaden the reasons all they want.

 

[Melsy]

I do wonder where Sarah Spiers might be..

Its the million dollar question. I think the discovered bodies will be part of that.

 

[Melsy]

There is no key hole, or handle on this door. It is electric. I do wonder how many car bays exist within. The vents suggest it has facility for cars.

 

[Catcher In The Rye]

I watched this case over the last 2 nights entitled Code of a Killer it has so many similarities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Pitchfork

On 21 November 1983, 15-year-old Lynda Mann took a shortcut on her way home from babysitting instead of taking her normal route home. She did not return and so her parents and neighbours spent the night searching for her. The next morning, she was found raped and strangled on a deserted footpath known locally as the Back Path. Using forensic science techniques available at the time, police linked a semen sample taken from her body to a person with type A blood and an enzymeprofile that matched only 10 percent of males. With no other leads or evidence, the case was left open.

On 31 July 1986, another 15-year-old girl, Dawn Ashworth, left her home to visit a friend's house. Two days later, her body was found in a wooded area near a footpath called Ten Pound Lane. She had been beaten, savagely raped and strangled to death. The modus operandi matched that of the first attack, and semen samples revealed the same blood type.

The prime suspect was Richard Buckland, a local 17-year-old youth with learning difficulties, who revealed knowledge of Ashworth's body, and admitted to the Ashworth crime under questioning, but denied the first murder.[3]

DNA profiling[edit]
In 1985, Alec Jeffreys, a genetics researcher at the University of Leicester, first developed DNA profiling along with Peter Gill and Dave Werrett of the Forensic Science Service (FSS).[4]

Gill commented:[4]

I was responsible for developing all of the DNA extraction techniques and demonstrating that it was possible after all to obtain DNA profiles from old stains. The biggest achievement was developing the preferential extraction method to separate sperm from vaginal cells – without this method, it would have been difficult to use DNA in rape cases.​

Using this technique, Jeffreys compared semen samples from both murder victims against a blood sample from Buckland and conclusively proved that both girls were killed by the same man but not by Buckland. Buckland became the first person to have his innocence established by DNA fingerprinting.[5]

 

[elsleevador]

Possibly a work mate who has seen him there at an odd time while having no reason to be there?

This is exactly correct.

 

[Sorbet Bliss]

Agree that at the active time of the Claremont series and for years after, people were very wary.
Anyone acting strange, creepy or odd would've definitely triggered thought's or notion's that perhaps that person was potentially the CSK.

We know thousands of calls were made during the active period, over the course of 20 years and now Carmel is quoted in saying calls are still coming in and that they were following up on each one.
We all know police weren't giving much away to maintain the integrity of the case, adding to that they had LW publicly pegged as the suspect. So maybe it's somewhere in there, those that had seen someone behaving odd refrained from making calls until recent information during these directional hearings were being divulged/released and the information they had etched in their memories all these years possibly turned from "nah I was just being paranoid or affected by the hype" to hmmm maybe there's some form of relevance after all and calls made.

 

[Melsy]

Agree that at the active time of the Claremont series and for years after, people were very wary.
Anyone acting strange, creepy or odd would've definitely triggered thought's or notion's that perhaps that person was potentially the CSK.

We know thousands of calls were made during the active period, over the course of 20 years and now Carmel is quoted in saying calls are still coming in and that they were following up on each one.
We all know police weren't giving much away to maintain the integrity of the case, adding to that they had LW publicly pegged as the suspect. So maybe it's somewhere in there, those that had seen someone behaving odd refrained from making calls until recent information during these directional hearings were being divulged/released and the information they had etched in their memories all these years possibly turned from "nah I was just being paranoid or affected by the hype" to hmmm maybe there's some form of relevance after all and calls made.

Paranoia was rife. High ranking police officers were pulling over anyone remotely close to the identikit in the immediate area.

Speculation was high and misinformation thick. Early in the investigation, it was the choice of topic.

 

[Hai_Newman]

Paranoia was rife. High ranking police officers were pulling over anyone remotely close to the identikit in the immediate area.

Speculation was high and misinformation thick.

Don't remember there being a indentikit...
From my memories they had no idea what
the killer looked like.

 

[Melsy]

Agree that at the active time of the Claremont series and for years after, people were very wary.
Anyone acting strange, creepy or odd would've definitely triggered thought's or notion's that perhaps that person was potentially the CSK.

We know thousands of calls were made during the active period, over the course of 20 years and now Carmel is quoted in saying calls are still coming in and that they were following up on each one.
We all know police weren't giving much away to maintain the integrity of the case, adding to that they had LW publicly pegged as the suspect. So maybe it's somewhere in there, those that had seen someone behaving odd refrained from making calls until recent information during these directional hearings were being divulged/released and the information they had etched in their memories all these years possibly turned from "nah I was just being paranoid or affected by the hype" to hmmm maybe there's some form of relevance after all and calls made.

You do wonder how much protecting the integrity of the case, hindered the investigation. Instead of taxi driver, maybe Telecom worker might have drawn an early closure to this case considering all the evidence they had to his case and no none looked at local techies at the time, one already charged with assault.

 

[Melsy]

Don't remember there being a indentikit...
From my memories they had no idea what
the killer looked like.

Incorrect, police investigated considerably tall people. I was pulled over by a top-level officer in a white shirt who was shaking like a leaf. Then told to go.

I was in the same vehicle they had Janes Commodore fibres. That was after Ciara went missing. I was working in Bayview Tce at the time when Ciara disappeared.

They had an identikit. They just weren't telling. Even when a sibling rang the police, they were immediately dismissed due to the hair colour described of the male attempting to coerce her in a cab Guthrie street outside The Conti in Jan 1995.

The irony, I had a cousin standing next to Ciara at the bar the time she went missing. Police took his DNA to omit him from the body. Ciara was only there 20 mins.

Tall, dark hair.

 

[Hai_Newman]

Incorrect, police investigated considerably tall people. I was pulled over by a top-level officer in a white shirt who was shaking like a leaf. Then told to go.

I was in the same vehicle they had Janes Commodore fibres.

They had an identikit. They just weren't telling. Even when a sibling rang the police, they were immediately dismissed due to the hair colour described of the male attempting to coerce her in a cab Guthrie street outside The Conti in Jan 1995.

Hmm interesting, did they gather from the Conti vid or witnesses?

 

[Melsy]

Hmm interesting, did they gather from the Conti vid or witnesses?

Vid, oooh actually vid witness.

 

[Melsy]

Watch the finger of blame when the trial is done. Scrutiny is going to be harsh, even on current prosecution.

 

[Hai_Newman]

Vid, oooh actually vid witness.

So are you saying the mystery man is the man in the identikit?

 

[Coastie19]

 

[tapdancingbear]

So are you saying the mystery man is the man in the identikit?[/QUOTE

In my opinion Mystery Man has nothing to do with anything , it is a story people keep regurgitating to keep there version of events going on

 

[Hai_Newman]

So the Conti vid is probably the Telecom suspect in your opinion?

 

[tapdancingbear]

Incorrect, police investigated considerably tall people. I was pulled over by a top-level officer in a white shirt who was shaking like a leaf. Then told to go.

I was in the same vehicle they had Janes Commodore fibres. That was after Ciara went missing. I was working in Bayview Tce at the time when Ciara disappeared.

They had an identikit. They just weren't telling. Even when a sibling rang the police, they were immediately dismissed due to the hair colour described of the male attempting to coerce her in a cab Guthrie street outside The Conti in Jan 1995.

The irony, I had a cousin standing next to Ciara at the bar the time she went missing. Police took his DNA to omit him from the body. Ciara was only there 20 mins.

Tall, dark hair.

When the police used this identikit picture they ruled out anyone who had a mouth and chin , it narrowed down the list of suspect considerably

 

[Coastie19]

You do wonder how much protecting the integrity of the case, hindered the investigation. Instead of taxi driver, maybe Telecom worker might have drawn an early closure to this case considering all the evidence they had to his case and no none looked at local techies at the time, one already charged with assault.

But were all these bits of evidence isolated and not thought of as connected until accused was arrested?

I am surprised that the HH work assault and the two other attacks weren't linked sooner given the MO of the fabric in the mouth of the victims

 

[tapdancingbear]

So the Conti vid is probably the Telecom suspect in your opinion?

If that was directed to me , No I do not think the Telecom suspect is in the Conti video at all … People try and connect the guy who has been arrested to anything since the crucifixion … I do not think he was in the hotels choosing victims

 

[Melsy]

So the Conti vid is probably the Telecom suspect in your opinion?

Dont know.