Claremont serial killings trial live blog - Day 28
The West Australian is live blogging the trial of accused Claremont serial killer Bradley Robert Edwards.
Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates
- Thread starter _Mike_
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
- Dec 27, 2016
- 26,876
- 56,870
- AFL Club
- Western Bulldogs
- Moderator
- #12,202
Anybody know who this profiler from Victoria and the cop from South Carolina was?
From the blog.
Questions have now turned to the discovery of Ciara Glennon's body along Pipidinny Road, Eglinton on April 3, 1997.
Superintendent Leembruggan told the court when he arrived he went up in the police helicopter to get aerial photographs with Constable Greg Hyde.
He said then at 2.15pm he was invited by a number of senior detectives to get closer to the scene to get an appreciation.
When asked who he was with he said Det Snr Const Mark Bordin as well a profiler from Victoria and an officer from the South Carolina police department who had experience with serial murder investigations.
From the blog.
Questions have now turned to the discovery of Ciara Glennon's body along Pipidinny Road, Eglinton on April 3, 1997.
Superintendent Leembruggan told the court when he arrived he went up in the police helicopter to get aerial photographs with Constable Greg Hyde.
He said then at 2.15pm he was invited by a number of senior detectives to get closer to the scene to get an appreciation.
When asked who he was with he said Det Snr Const Mark Bordin as well a profiler from Victoria and an officer from the South Carolina police department who had experience with serial murder investigations.
Countessa
Cancelled
- Dec 11, 2019
- 583
- 1,600
- AFL Club
- West Coast
I think it was David Caldwell, head of forensics at South Carolina Police and Victorian police criminal profiler Claude Minisini.
- Dec 14, 2019
- 1,537
- 6,361
- AFL Club
- West Coast
"He said he attended with Detective Senior Constable Mark Bordin, Claude Menacini, who was a Victorian profiler brought in as a consultant for WA Police, and Dave Cordwell, a U.S police officer with experience in serial murder investigations flown to Perth to assist the Macro Taskforce. "
Countessa
Cancelled
- Dec 11, 2019
- 583
- 1,600
- AFL Club
- West Coast
FBIS International: About FBIS International
www.fbis.com.au
"The court heard the towels were white with a blue stripe down the middle"....Defense grasping at straws. I have used those towels many times and they are cotton.
- Dec 14, 2019
- 1,537
- 6,361
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Interesting; two names, two spellings each. Menacini, Minisini, Cordwell, Caldwell. I got my quote from watoday
Countessa
Cancelled
- Dec 11, 2019
- 583
- 1,600
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Yes, and his title is Captain David Caldwell.
- Dec 27, 2016
- 26,876
- 56,870
- AFL Club
- Western Bulldogs
- Moderator
- #12,209
Some memory of Minisini and one of the top cops going into private business and it was a bit of a scandal at the time? I have to check back.
- Dec 14, 2019
- 1,537
- 6,361
- AFL Club
- West Coast
I'm confused....
WAToday says "Exhibit AJM54 - which is the critical hair exhibit - is written and then crossed out.
On a more filled-out, photo-copied version of the exhibit list the words 'Head hair - string indicates rear neck' are added to the AJM54 line.
The critical exhibit was then couriered to Anne Marie Furmedge in forensic pathology by forensic officer Adam McCulloch."
24live blog says "When asked if he recognised the writing for what was AJM 65, he said no. The court heard AJM 65 was crossed out".
WAToday says "Exhibit AJM54 - which is the critical hair exhibit - is written and then crossed out.
On a more filled-out, photo-copied version of the exhibit list the words 'Head hair - string indicates rear neck' are added to the AJM54 line.
The critical exhibit was then couriered to Anne Marie Furmedge in forensic pathology by forensic officer Adam McCulloch."
24live blog says "When asked if he recognised the writing for what was AJM 65, he said no. The court heard AJM 65 was crossed out".
"He was then asked about RH 17.
RH 17 is the "pristine" sample of Ciara Glennon's hair from her crime scene that produced two blue polyester fibres.
The court has previously heard the discovery of this hair sample does not feature in the crime scene video recording taken at Pipidinny Road on April 3, 1997 and that there was a three minute gap in the recording.
Ms Barbagallo asked who's handwriting it was, he said he didn't know.
Supt Leembruggen was then asked if Laurie Webb - the former head of PathWest who was sacked in 2016 for breaching protocol, was at the post-mortem, he said he was.
Supt Leembruggen then told the court his recollection was that Mr Webb took some of the exhibit samples during the post-mortem.
He said Mr Webb signed for some of those items."
There's a fly in the ointment.
RH 17 is the "pristine" sample of Ciara Glennon's hair from her crime scene that produced two blue polyester fibres.
The court has previously heard the discovery of this hair sample does not feature in the crime scene video recording taken at Pipidinny Road on April 3, 1997 and that there was a three minute gap in the recording.
Ms Barbagallo asked who's handwriting it was, he said he didn't know.
Supt Leembruggen was then asked if Laurie Webb - the former head of PathWest who was sacked in 2016 for breaching protocol, was at the post-mortem, he said he was.
Supt Leembruggen then told the court his recollection was that Mr Webb took some of the exhibit samples during the post-mortem.
He said Mr Webb signed for some of those items."
There's a fly in the ointment.
- Dec 14, 2019
- 1,537
- 6,361
- AFL Club
- West Coast
My understanding is that Webb cut corners, but on review none of his work could be later faulted on accuracy; only on procedure.
- Dec 14, 2019
- 1,537
- 6,361
- AFL Club
- West Coast
I can't help thinking someone misparsed what was reported.
From live24: The court was told the hair sample result was "six, two cut, mangled two, hair cut, two were broken."
What I think was intended was: there were six hairs; two were cut and mangled, two were cut, and two were broken.
From live24: The court was told the hair sample result was "six, two cut, mangled two, hair cut, two were broken."
What I think was intended was: there were six hairs; two were cut and mangled, two were cut, and two were broken.
From WAtoday: https://www.watoday.com.au/national...nations-to-give-evidence-20200120-p53syx.html
Thats a lot of fibres....78 by my poor maths.
Thats a lot of fibres....78 by my poor maths.
w
yep... makes me want to vac my car about now!
"He has been shown the exhibit list he wrote during the post-mortem on Ciara's body.
Exhibit AJM54 - which is the critical hair exhibit - is written and then crossed out.
On a more filled-out, photo-copied version of the exhibit list the words 'Head hair - string indicates rear neck' are added to the AJM54 line.
The critical exhibit was then couriered to Anne Marie Furmedge in forensic pathology by forensic officer Adam McCulloch.
The court is taking a short adjournment for some legal discussion to be ironed out.
It involves the defence not being aware of all of Mr Leembruggen's evidence."
"Defence lawyer Paul Yovich has indicated he will not be ready to cross-examine Mr Leembruggen today, as he would like to review his evidence-in-chief once it is complete.
He acknowledges there may not be anything significant in the new information the witness may give, but that he will not know that until he has had a chance to review it."
What was the new info?? The fact that it was crossed out and re-written or the fact that it was couriered to the forensic dept.??
Exhibit AJM54 - which is the critical hair exhibit - is written and then crossed out.
On a more filled-out, photo-copied version of the exhibit list the words 'Head hair - string indicates rear neck' are added to the AJM54 line.
The critical exhibit was then couriered to Anne Marie Furmedge in forensic pathology by forensic officer Adam McCulloch.
The court is taking a short adjournment for some legal discussion to be ironed out.
It involves the defence not being aware of all of Mr Leembruggen's evidence."
"Defence lawyer Paul Yovich has indicated he will not be ready to cross-examine Mr Leembruggen today, as he would like to review his evidence-in-chief once it is complete.
He acknowledges there may not be anything significant in the new information the witness may give, but that he will not know that until he has had a chance to review it."
What was the new info?? The fact that it was crossed out and re-written or the fact that it was couriered to the forensic dept.??
The new info is an if there was new information provided by the witness.
I think we are going to need to wait for a transcript on these!!
Further explanation of DNA:
Getting back to why I think the DNA will be proven to be his.
In multiplex PCR analysis systems, a marker for the amelogenin gene is always used as this will indicate if the result is male or female.
Amelogenin genes occur on both the X- and Y-chromosome. As you may remember from school, the female is XX while the male is XY.
Now...If the sample detected in the UK was from the extracted sperm sample from KK, the result would have been one result for the amelogenin Y gene. This is significant as the researchers would have then known that it was likely a diploid (sperm) cell result and not a haploid (somatic cell) result, the big difference been that a dipolid male call (sperm) only contains a Y chromosome while a haploid cell contains XY if its a man.
This is a result for a male sperm...note one band for the Y chromosome and none for the X.
The fact that the defense mentions "cellular material" makes me think that the PCR amelogenin test showed an XY and thus can only be a somatic cell and not a sperm cell.
This in essence then means that contamination could not have occurred as the extracted KK sample would have had Y only and not XY. If it was the un-extracted sample, as I mentioned earlier, KK DNA would have shown up also.
I await with interest the prosecution mentioning "amelogenin"
Getting back to why I think the DNA will be proven to be his.
In multiplex PCR analysis systems, a marker for the amelogenin gene is always used as this will indicate if the result is male or female.
Amelogenin genes occur on both the X- and Y-chromosome. As you may remember from school, the female is XX while the male is XY.
Now...If the sample detected in the UK was from the extracted sperm sample from KK, the result would have been one result for the amelogenin Y gene. This is significant as the researchers would have then known that it was likely a diploid (sperm) cell result and not a haploid (somatic cell) result, the big difference been that a dipolid male call (sperm) only contains a Y chromosome while a haploid cell contains XY if its a man.
This is a result for a male sperm...note one band for the Y chromosome and none for the X.
The fact that the defense mentions "cellular material" makes me think that the PCR amelogenin test showed an XY and thus can only be a somatic cell and not a sperm cell.
This in essence then means that contamination could not have occurred as the extracted KK sample would have had Y only and not XY. If it was the un-extracted sample, as I mentioned earlier, KK DNA would have shown up also.
I await with interest the prosecution mentioning "amelogenin"
- Dec 14, 2019
- 1,537
- 6,361
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Further explanation of DNA:
Getting back to why I think the DNA will be proven to be his.
In multiplex PCR analysis systems, a marker for the amelogenin gene is always used as this will indicate if the result is male or female.
Amelogenin genes occur on both the X- and Y-chromosome. As you may remember from school, the female is XX while the male is XY.
Now...If the sample detected in the UK was from the extracted sperm sample from KK, the result would have been one result for the amelogenin Y gene. This is significant as the researchers would have then known that it was likely a diploid (sperm) cell result and not a haploid (somatic cell) result, the big difference been that a dipolid male call (sperm) only contains a Y chromosome while a haploid cell contains XY if its a man.
View attachment 809195
This is a result for a male sperm...note one band for the Y chromosome and none for the X.
The fact that the defense mentions "cellular material" makes me think that the PCR amelogenin test showed an XY and thus can only be a somatic cell and not a sperm cell.
This in essence then means that contamination could not have occurred as the extracted KK sample would have had Y only and not XY. If it was the un-extracted sample, as I mentioned earlier, KK DNA would have shown up also.
I await with interest the prosecution mentioning "amelogenin"
I thought much (most?) intimate sample DNA was shed skin cells from the perp?
No its been mentioned that they isolated his DNA from the KK sample. Even back then they would have isolated the DNA from the sperm.
A sperm cell can have an X or a Y-chromosome.Further explanation of DNA:
Getting back to why I think the DNA will be proven to be his.
In multiplex PCR analysis systems, a marker for the amelogenin gene is always used as this will indicate if the result is male or female.
Amelogenin genes occur on both the X- and Y-chromosome. As you may remember from school, the female is XX while the male is XY.
Now...If the sample detected in the UK was from the extracted sperm sample from KK, the result would have been one result for the amelogenin Y gene. This is significant as the researchers would have then known that it was likely a diploid (sperm) cell result and not a haploid (somatic cell) result, the big difference been that a dipolid male call (sperm) only contains a Y chromosome while a haploid cell contains XY if its a man.
View attachment 809195
This is a result for a male sperm...note one band for the Y chromosome and none for the X.
The fact that the defense mentions "cellular material" makes me think that the PCR amelogenin test showed an XY and thus can only be a somatic cell and not a sperm cell.
This in essence then means that contamination could not have occurred as the extracted KK sample would have had Y only and not XY. If it was the un-extracted sample, as I mentioned earlier, KK DNA would have shown up also.
I await with interest the prosecution mentioning "amelogenin"
Yes apologies for that...but exactly, but only one chromosome...not both X and Y, just one. So the amelogenin result for sperm would show one peak and not 2 like a XY profile would.
Last edited:
Claremont serial killings trial live blog - Day 29
The West Australian is live blogging the trial of accused Claremont serial killer Bradley Robert Edwards.
- Status
Similar threads
