@Clayton Collard

[RememberMe]

Surely we could do better. I have heard a bit about this kid, and hes good... Don't think he warrants a 1st round pick though.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Surely we could do better. I have heard a bit about this kid, and hes good... Don't think he warrants a 1st round pick though.

For what its worth, im tipping Clayton to slip to us at #17. Might be a long shot, but its firming as a possibility

 

[Jack-Packenham]

If we go for a running player I would take Houli or Connors before Proud, Armitage, Jetta or Collard.

Thats assuming Gibbs and Selwood are both gone, which they will be.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

If we go for a running player I would take Houli or Connors before Proud, Armitage, Jetta or Collard.

Thats assuming Gibbs and Selwood are both gone, which they will be.

You'd be keen to take Houli at #7 ???

 

[Jack-Packenham]

You'd be keen to take Houli at #7 ???

He is the best player from the TAC competition and he will be a gun. Can play midfield, has great skills and can finish, unlike most of our one paced unskilled midfielders.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

He is the best player from the TAC competition and he will be a gun. Can play midfield, has great skills and can finish, unlike most of our one paced unskilled midfielders.

he also has a suspect dislodged disc in his back.

and is fairly injury prone.

Dont get me wrong, I think he's a sensation junior player and could make a name for himself at AFL level, but definatley not at 7.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

he also has a suspect dislodged disc in his back.

and is fairly injury prone.

Dont get me wrong, I think he's a sensation junior player and could make a name for himself at AFL level, but definatley not at 7.

But if you are really keen on somebody and you can't wait for pick 25 sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and take him. If we had traded S Johnson for pick 20 or Kelly for pick 17 then I may have been happy to wait. But I can assure you he won't be around at 25.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

I see where your coming from, but its probably wise to draft on the "best available" method, rather than drafting for direct needs, especially at pick #7 and especially in this draft pool.

 

[SirRooke]

I've not seen this guy, well i don't remember him anyway and i'm not pretending to be an expert like a lot of the fools on here, but from what i read there is no bloody way i'm going to keep getting my hopes up and buying a membership if we keep running our club like a joke and doing things such as throwing good draft picks away. I'm sick of long shot first rd draft picks...Mackie might end up ok but is still so far away from what a number 6 pick should be after 5yrs, Varcoe is a dud (capital D) and Collard might end up a good player but i can barely think of one person that rates this guy in the top 7 so to pick him would be mad!!! Probably only Freo would have a history of bigger first rd duds than Geelong and we need to turn this around if people are going to start to respect us. Sooner or later the water in Geelong is going to go off a little and the father-son tap will turn off and we'll be stuffed! Why is it that our drafting is only ever good once we get to the third round and beyond? A club will never prosper that way.

Geelong should pick the KNOWN class in the draft that is available and that means Sellars, Proud or Connors will be the likely pick. (assuming Gibbs, Hansen, Gumbleton, Thorpe, Leuwenberger and Selwood are picked up) In a draft like this with an earlier pick than we are used to having there is no way and certainly no point in going for a longshot roughie with the first pick. I'd like to see a midfielder but if Sellars is available we'd be stupid to not pick him.

I'd like to see Houli stick around for the second round. From the sounds of it he is just what we need and sounds good value.

Sellar, Houli, Hawkins and hopefully if we get another pick a Jarod Rooke clone. That's what we really need. 18 Jarod Rookes!

 

[mckinale]

we dont want another pick 7 with potential
we want a gun

 

[Catman]

we dont want another pick 7 with potential
we want a gun

But they are all picks with potential. Until they prove they can perform at AFL level then you can't call them anything else.

Who's to say Collard won't be a gun? I was impressed with what I saw of him at the champs.

 

[SirRooke]

all i'm saying is no speculative first rd picks this time... Geelong sould pick the player where there is common consensus that that player is quality.

With what will be available at pick 7 that will be Sellar, Proud, Connors and perhaps Selwood.

We aren't the best in the league at picking elite draft picks, though we are excellent at picking late round players up.
1. because we are never quite crap enough to get elite picks and so devote all our recruiting efforts at smokeys
2. because we get our elite players through father-son
3. we just aren't.

This time, please Geelong just stick with convention and no dreaming of catching that big fish noone else ever thought of.

 

[krisholio14]

I've not seen this guy, well i don't remember him anyway

so how would you know how good he is or isnt?

there is no bloody way i'm going to keep getting my hopes up and buying a membership if we keep running our club like a joke and doing things such as throwing good draft picks away.

so just because i didnt pick a player YOU have seen or like its wasting the pick?

I'm sick of long shot first rd draft picks...Mackie might end up ok but is still so far away from what a number 6 pick should be after 5yrs, Varcoe is a dud (capital D) and Collard might end up a good player but i can barely think of one person that rates this guy in the top 7 so to pick him would be mad!!!

the lowest ive seen collard go in any draft predictor is 20th. hes been a first rounder in all of the rest.

Geelong should pick the KNOWN class in the draft that is available and that means Sellars, Proud or Connors will be the likely pick. (assuming Gibbs, Hansen, Gumbleton, Thorpe, Leuwenberger and Selwood are picked up)

you tell me how you KNOW these guys are classier than collard. youve never seen him play.

In a draft like this with an earlier pick than we are used to having there is no way and certainly no point in going for a longshot roughie with the first pick.

how is collard a longshot? the fellow doing melbourne in the phantom draft was going to pick him at 12.

I'd like to see Houli stick around for the second round. From the sounds of it he is just what we need and sounds good value.

houli is a bigger punt than collard. houli has a long history of injury. and from what ive seen of him, im not convinced his game translates to AFL level. his skills in tight are good, but he isnt a speed merchant, is a bit lazy, and has relied on his size to get him thru to a certain extent. he could be a great player, but there is also a good chance he wont make it.

Surely we could do better. I have heard a bit about this kid, and hes good... Don't think he warrants a 1st round pick though.

as i said earlier, hes been a first rounder in every draft predictor ive seen bar one.

If we go for a running player I would take Houli or Connors before Proud, Armitage, Jetta or Collard.

Thats assuming Gibbs and Selwood are both gone, which they will be.

But if you are really keen on somebody and you can't wait for pick 25 sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and take him. If we had traded S Johnson for pick 20 or Kelly for pick 17 then I may have been happy to wait. But I can assure you he won't be around at 25.

first, i dont think houli is a 'running player' as such.

going on your criteria there, i think collard will be a great player for us which is why i chose him, and would not have survived till pick 25.

it came down to three players for mine, collard, proud and connors. from what ive seen of these three players, i think they are all good players who should have good careers at the top level. but i think collard has the x factor that our side is sorely lacking. he is a brilliantly skilled, two sided player, who creates for himself and others, has toughness and is a very good mark for his size. not to mention his pace and mobility.

i like proud but i always worry about 'division 2 syndrome' with these sorts of guys (armitage, urquhart etc), and connors i think is a similar package to collard but without the match turning brilliance. and selwood, hes a one paced inside mid with so so disposal, something we already have more than enuff of.

and rooke old son, clearly you havent seen sellar play either. hes got no football brain whatsoever. he had a bad year and seems to have gotten off easy because he was 'sick' (at the champs AND at draft camp). i saw him playing for glenelg and at the champs this year, and didnt like what i saw at all. has nowhere near the athleticism and skill some watchers have suggested he has, and has virtually no awareness whatsoever. although if rookie is your favorite player, i suppose you LOVE guys with no awareness

bottom line is fellas, i HAVE seen these guys play, otherwise i wouldnt be participating. its all very easy to go on what the concensus is saying, but noone picked dale thomas to go at 2 last year, collingwood were bagged by so called 'experts' and he went alright didnt he?

 

[SirRooke]

I'm not saying that i'm an expert at all or that I know more than you. I don't. My whole point is no speculative first round draft picks. Why pick what it seems most people think is a late first round pick at number 7? Geelong needs to stop trying to think outside the square and be smart and sensible.

I still have nightmares about crap picks like Ezra Bray, who this guy sounds quite similar to. Ezra is right up there with the Murphys, Hoopers, Varcoes, Spriggs, Mackies, Houlihans.... (technically Peter Street is a 2nd rd but he was our first pick in 98 so I'm going through him in just to help my point, but to be fair I wont include Ottens who cost 2 first rd picks )

Bartel and Corey (who I'd trade if i had the chance) are the only first rd draft picks that I can think of who will go the distance, though to be fair on King injuries have cruelled his career. Mackie saved his career late this season but the only reason they didnt trade him to Port is that all they would have got was a 3rd rd pick at best and the club and Thompson probably didnt want the added heat of admitting they developed a no.6 pick for 5yrs to give him up for a rd3 pick.

Rooke is a gun, very underrated, as good as Kirk I think and should be vc. Even Thompson who should know better doesnt rate him as highly as he should. I reckon he's one of the best midfielders we have but we dont use him there enough. I don't think he's concussion rate (if thats what you are referring to) should be considered as lack of awareness. Its just guts to the point of stupidity I admit, but guts nonetheless. If we had more players like him we'd be a hell of a lot better team.

 

[ben_cats_fan]

I'm not saying that i'm an expert at all or that I know more than you. I don't. My whole point is no speculative first round draft picks. Why pick what it seems most people think is a late first round pick at number 7? Geelong needs to stop trying to think outside the square and be smart and sensible.

I still have nightmares about crap picks like Ezra Bray, who this guy sounds quite similar to. Ezra is right up there with the Murphys, Hoopers, Varcoes, Spriggs, Mackies, Houlihans.... (technically Peter Street is a 2nd rd but he was our first pick in 98 so I'm going through him in just to help my point, but to be fair I wont include Ottens who cost 2 first rd picks )

Bartel and Corey (who I'd trade if i had the chance) are the only first rd draft picks that I can think of who will go the distance, though to be fair on King injuries have cruelled his career. Mackie saved his career late this season but the only reason they didnt trade him to Port is that all they would have got was a 3rd rd pick at best and the club and Thompson probably didnt want the added heat of admitting they developed a no.6 pick for 5yrs to give him up for a rd3 pick.

Rooke is a gun, very underrated, as good as Kirk I think and should be vc. Even Thompson who should know better doesnt rate him as highly as he should. I reckon he's one of the best midfielders we have but we dont use him there enough. I don't think he's concussion rate (if thats what you are referring to) should be considered as lack of awareness. Its just guts to the point of stupidity I admit, but guts nonetheless. If we had more players like him we'd be a hell of a lot better team.

I agree with everything you just said. However, I hope i'm misreading everything when you said you'd trade Bartel if given the chance?

 

[krisholio14]

i was just stirring you about rookie. im a big fan of his. his lack of awareness has more to do with him playing on and getting caught quite often (although hes improved this out of sight the last year or so). but i do love him as a player, and considering he gave the 2006 brownlow medalist a touch up last time we played sydney, i think rookie could be in for a big 2007.

ill let you in on a little story about ezra bray. i was watching a VFL game with a couple of his uncles at carlton one afternoon. theyd come down from NT to see him play and he hadnt told them he was injured and wasnt in the side. ezra was nowhere to be seen in fact. we were hovering around the bench and bomber was there, getting agitated because even tho ezra was injured, he was still supposed to be at the game. one of his uncles decided to give him a call. he found ezra right in the middle of a shag with his then g/f, and was promptly told by ezra he'd front up 'a bit later', which he didnt. the boy had the skills, but was lazy as all get out.

having said that, you can tell by the way collard goes about his footy that he works hard. the thing that impressed me the most about clayton is that hes prepared to put his body on the line when the going gets tough, and he does the little things that make a team better. this is why im not sold on jetta. he has all the skills, but is a downhill skier if ive ever seen one. hes soft AND lazy.

im not suggesting that we will pick collard in the real thing. but you can bookmark this, i reckon collard will prove to be a much better player than many of the players that are taken in front of him. as i say, if id picked dale thomas at 2 last year, i would have got slammed. he was a late first round selection in most punters eyes, but he looks like hes going to play a few good games of footy in years to come.

 

[Rosella]

I agree with everything you just said. However, I hope i'm misreading everything when you said you'd trade Bartel if given the chance?

I think he meant Corey, but that's bad enough.

 

[Rosella]

i was just stirring you about rookie. im a big fan of his. his lack of awareness has more to do with him playing on and getting caught quite often (although hes improved this out of sight the last year or so). but i do love him as a player, and considering he gave the 2006 brownlow medalist a touch up last time we played sydney, i think rookie could be in for a big 2007.

ill let you in on a little story about ezra bray. i was watching a VFL game with a couple of his uncles at carlton one afternoon. theyd come down from NT to see him play and he hadnt told them he was injured and wasnt in the side. ezra was nowhere to be seen in fact. we were hovering around the bench and bomber was there, getting agitated because even tho ezra was injured, he was still supposed to be at the game. one of his uncles decided to give him a call. he found ezra right in the middle of a shag with his then g/f, and was promptly told by ezra he'd front up 'a bit later', which he didnt. the boy had the skills, but was lazy as all get out.

having said that, you can tell by the way collard goes about his footy that he works hard. the thing that impressed me the most about clayton is that hes prepared to put his body on the line when the going gets tough, and he does the little things that make a team better. this is why im not sold on jetta. he has all the skills, but is a downhill skier if ive ever seen one. hes soft AND lazy.

im not suggesting that we will pick collard in the real thing. but you can bookmark this, i reckon collard will prove to be a much better player than many of the players that are taken in front of him. as i say, if id picked dale thomas at 2 last year, i would have got slammed. he was a late first round selection in most punters eyes, but he looks like hes going to play a few good games of footy in years to come.

I'm going to trust your judgment - your second pick was great. Interesting about Bray - he was rookie listed by Richmond or Melbourne (I think) and got nowhere there either.

 

[GeeCat]

Interesting about Bray - he was rookie listed by Richmond or Melbourne (I think) and got nowhere there either.

Confusing Bray with Ezra Poyas methinks.

From memory, Bray went back home after his delisting. Haven't heard from him since. Shame really; kid had some talent, but for his injury/attitude problems.

 

[krisholio14]

Confusing Bray with Ezra Poyas methinks.

From memory, Bray went back home after his delisting. Haven't heard from him since. Shame really; kid had some talent, but for his injury/attitude problems.

carlton rookied him and he did bugger all there too.

 

[Rosella]

carlton rookied him and he did bugger all there too.

Carlton, was it? I knew someone else rookied him. Knew he didn't do much either.

 

[SirRooke]

No, i wouldn't trade Bartel. He is a gun and our best midfielder.

Corey is a good player, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him. Corey is respected but isn't rated anywhere near as high by other clubs as what he is rated by Geelong but we could still get a good deal for him. For a player of his size he should be imposing himself on games a lot more. He's 190cms but you would never know it. He sits out the back of packs chasing easy possessions too much and he never really hurts the opposition. Reality is the way football is played these days we can't have a midfield with Bartel, Corey, Ling and Enright, let alone Mooney who I think would make a great ruckrover. Its simply too slow. Bartel is untouchable, can't ever imagine Ling agreeing to leave Geelong (though he'd want a drastic form reversal next year or he'll be overtaken by Prismall, Stokes etc) and Enright is more versatile than Corey.

Geelong should have traded Corey for some more leg speed (established player or draft pick) and moved Mooney into the middle full time.

 

[SirRooke]

Yep, fair enough. If he's got the workrate then I'd be happy.

If Collard really is the best option then that would be great. I agree, we can't afford someone like Jetta, as great as it would be to have a midfielder with game breaking potential.

How do you rate Proud against Collard? What about Connors?

 

[krisholio14]

No, i wouldn't trade Bartel. He is a gun and our best midfielder.

Corey is a good player, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't trade him. Corey is respected but isn't rated anywhere near as high by other clubs as what he is rated by Geelong but we could still get a good deal for him. For a player of his size he should be imposing himself on games a lot more. He's 190cms but you would never know it. He sits out the back of packs chasing easy possessions too much and he never really hurts the opposition. Reality is the way football is played these days we can't have a midfield with Bartel, Corey, Ling and Enright, let alone Mooney who I think would make a great ruckrover. Its simply too slow. Bartel is untouchable, can't ever imagine Ling agreeing to leave Geelong (though he'd want a drastic form reversal next year or he'll be overtaken by Prismall, Stokes etc) and Enright is more versatile than Corey.

Geelong should have traded Corey for some more leg speed (established player or draft pick) and moved Mooney into the middle full time.

couldnt agree more rooke. corey has always been on the cusp of being a top player in this comp, but has never EVER used his size to advantage. for a guy whos just short of KPP height, he cant catch a cold, and the coach has never used his size to create mismatches. this is why i drafted jarryd allen with my second pick. i see him as being potentially a tall mid fielder in the corey mould, but with better hands and more versatility.

 

[krisholio14]

Yep, fair enough. If he's got the workrate then I'd be happy.

If Collard really is the best option then that would be great. I agree, we can't afford someone like Jetta, as great as it would be to have a midfielder with game breaking potential.

How do you rate Proud against Collard? What about Connors?

ill put it this way, there were at least six mids i looked at, the criteria being they had to have pace AND skill to start with. which ruled out selwood as hes another one paced inside mid which we are already loaded with.

jetta is lazy and soft as ive mentioned, so not interested there.

not much separating collard, proud, connors and o'keefe, all have pace, finishing skills and with the exception of o'keefe, like to mix up the physical stuff. in the end i went for collard as i think hes got a lot of versatility, and has the x factor...the ability to turn matches with a couple of brilliant passages of play. hes almost a mixture of gaz and chappy, which is great because we need to be able to rotate those guys thru the midfield without losing too much of the influence they have on our forward structure. i can see all these guys, and dogga, crumbing at the feet of tommy and nate and having a field day. as long as the coach doesnt stuff it up, but thats another story.