Cleanout Time

[cleomenes]

I don't think trades are the way to go. Draft as well as we can, but take players that actually remedy a deficiency. Speed, we are hoping for Mooney here, kicking skills suitable for kicking in (we have no one) and general good kicking and decision making. In other words, we want the same as every other club. Can the recruiters get them is the only real question.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Eddie may be frustrating at times but do you have any idea what he has done for this club. When you were in prep this club was on it's knees. He is the man that saved it.

You can trust if we do happen to get in to trouble Eddie will be the man to go and get another TOP coach and pull us out of it the way he poached Malthouse.

 

[jmac70]

You can trust if we do happen to get in to trouble Eddie will be the man to go and get another TOP coach and pull us out of it the way he poached Malthouse.

No doubt...although I still have hope that it won't be required.

 

[Jonno94]

I don't think trades are the way to go. Draft as well as we can, but take players that actually remedy a deficiency. Speed, we are hoping for Mooney here, kicking skills suitable for kicking in (we have no one) and general good kicking and decision making. In other words, we want the same as every other club. Can the recruiters get them is the only real question.

The Goldsack kick-ins down the middle made me cringe, there is a reason why no teams risk it unless forced to. Does Ramsay take kick-ins for the VFL side?

 

[THATSGOLD]

No doubt...although I still have hope that it won't be required.

4th and 8th with that group is testing me now. Improvement and high expectations in 2014.

 

[ksardog]

Nah ksardog. Not sure re Harry, but love Blair and the way he goes at the ball, refuses to acknowledge he's way shorter than anyone else on the field, just goes for it.

So i guess u r not frustrated with blair not capable of one grabbing anything, holding on to the ball far too long when he does finally get hold of it. If u want him just for his tackling lets recruit a rugby league player.

I would be getting shaw to play his role next year, can tackle, mark and has genuine skills unlike blair. He has gotten frustrated playing down back surrounded by spuds like maxwell and goldsack and always being dragged back to the last line of defence. Will get a new lease of life with a new role, and can become far more damaging and can see him kicking 20 plus goals a year if left in that role

 

[NT.Thunder]

Mods, can't we just open a sticky called "Shit Threads" to keep all these ridiculous ideas in. Something like our own bay 13!

Let's take a deep breath during the off season and reload. We were never a chance IMO these finals, the media made us something we never were. Our best is up there but we saw very little of it his year. Far too inconsistent, game plan not right and the transition from Malthouse to Buckley still makes us look stupid!

 

[Dylz48]

LMAO clean out??? trade sidey and brown gotta love overreactions at the end of the year. I think looking at Geelong last year is a good exercise as they were in a similar position last year and really only made obvious list changes whilst bringing in quality.

They didn't do anything crazy like trade Mackie and Stokes who had down years last year but have been fantastic in 2013.


Geelong 2012
In
Josh Caddy (traded)
Jesse Stringer (rookie elevation)
Jared Rivers (free agency)
Hamish McIntosh (traded)
Jackson Thurlow (National Draft)
Bradley Hartman (National Draft)

Out
Matthew Scarlett (retired)
David Wojcinski (retired)
Simon Hogan (retired)
Shannon Byrnes (free agency)
Orren Stephenson (delisted)
Tom Gillies (delisted)

 

[mason99]

Sadly I would let Brown go as well. Was ok under Malthouse, in a good back six that got across and covered(mainly Maxwell) for each other. Now with Maxwell struggling also, and the back six forced to play one on one, he holds , scrags and gives away frees. Get the best key position on offer. If its a forward, Reid goes back for Brown, if its a back then a straight swap for Brown.

 

[Yonchi]

just wondering out loud if Maxwell could be used as a tagger.

He seems to have lost a bit of his impact in the backline but is certainly disciplined enough to stick to a one on one task and would be a strong body to have around the ball. Also it wouldn't be terrible if he was dragged into the back 50.

It's not like Macaffer has set the world on fire and has a lock on the tagging role

 

[blaze036]

The Goldsack kick-ins down the middle made me cringe, there is a reason why no teams risk it unless forced to. Does Ramsay take kick-ins for the VFL side?

Yes with yagmoor

has a nice long boot on him, has a really skinny frame so Ramsay is probably more a 2015 prospect

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Think we need to rationalize some of the players people want traded out.....Sidebottom = No Way!!
Think the player one on ones are this week, so we could see some movement in regards to our list by the weeks end.
I think the outcomes for Jolly, Krakouer, Didak and Russell will be interesting this week. Hudson will retire, and the decision time for Thomas is approaching as to whether he's staying or going. I also get the feeling Buck's is just about over Shaw's discipline and brain snaps during games, so there could be some news there.
People want N Brown traded, can see pro and cons for that, if we can get say a Jessie White from Sydney to enable Reid to go back to defence, then that could instigate a trade for Brown.

 

[speedytiger]

just wondering out loud if Maxwell could be used as a tagger.

He seems to have lost a bit of his impact in the backline but is certainly disciplined enough to stick to a one on one task and would be a strong body to have around the ball. Also it wouldn't be terrible if he was dragged into the back 50.

It's not like Macaffer has set the world on fire and has a lock on the tagging role

I remember him tagging Thompson from Adelaide in a final i think and did quite well

 

[4#Didak#4]

I think there will probably be plenty of natural list turnover with a few older guys that may get a tap on the shoulder. However, if we are going to go further we need to look at improving our footskills, so for mine anyone who cannot hit a target by foot - and there is quite a few - should be regarded as trade bait. We really need to get this aspect of our list up to scratch and anyone we bring in needs to have excellent footskills.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

I think there will probably be plenty of natural list turnover with a few older guys that may get a tap on the shoulder. However, if we are going to go further we need to look at improving our footskills, so for mine anyone who cannot hit a target by foot - and there is quite a few - should be regarded as trade bait. We really need to get this aspect of our list up to scratch and anyone we bring in needs to have excellent footskills.

I tend to agree but it is not that easy. Some players have iffy disposal but add other things. Tooves and marley are two. No way would I trade them. However we have far too many players with bad disposal. You have to have balance on your list.

 

[DaVe86]

So i guess u r not frustrated with blair not capable of one grabbing anything, holding on to the ball far too long when he does finally get hold of it. If u want him just for his tackling lets recruit a rugby league player.

I would be getting shaw to play his role next year, can tackle, mark and has genuine skills unlike blair. He has gotten frustrated playing down back surrounded by spuds like maxwell and goldsack and always being dragged back to the last line of defence. Will get a new lease of life with a new role, and can become far more damaging and can see him kicking 20 plus goals a year if left in that role

I think Blair tackled his guts out.

The problem is Blair cannot be our number 1 small forward. He needs Elliott and Fasolo up there as well. Elliott was obviously playing injured and Fasolo needs a big pre-season.

Then I think Blair will go back to playing that nuggety role where he sneaks under the radar.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I tend to agree but it is not that easy. Some players have iffy disposal but add other things. Tooves and marley are two. No way would I trade them. However we have far too many players with bad disposal. You have to have balance on your list.

Its that balance we need to restore. Its not something that happens overnight either, it will take years. But if you take the approach of putting a premium on kicking skills when drafting & trading, the tide will eventually turn. Hawthorn is proof of this.

You can accept some players having poor disposal as they do bring other things. Like Harry O'Brien, could not hit a barn wall kicking inside 50, but his two way running is just about the best at the club.

However, when everyone is doing great things except for kicking we simply will not compete with the best as all that effort of contested ball, clearances, hard running etc is simply wasted when you turn the ball over by foot.

The reason we have these types on our list is twofold: years of being unable to access top talent as we have finished too high (victim of our own success). Years of MM not placing a premium on kicking skills - its not high on his list of attributes needed.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

There is an article into today's AGE newspaper titled 'Pies years from title now: Shaw' in which Tony Shaw suggests a clean out of up to 10 players, possibly including Shaw and even Ball, to change the culture of the club. He also says Buckley was out-coached by Hinkley.

 

[MyManLynch]

There is an article into today's AGE newspaper titled 'Pies years from title now: Shaw' in which Tony Shaw suggests a clean out of up to 10 players, possibly including Shaw and even Ball, to change the culture of the club. He also says Buckley was out-coached by Hinkley.

Tony Shaw was out-coached by his budgie.
I don't see it as a clean out...rather the older boys retiring or moved on (a natural part of the game that would have happened regardless of finishing position).
It is a shame that Maxy has 198 games.....I think if he managed to pull 200 this year, he may have decided to call it quits.
Bucks does have some tough decisions on Jolly, Didak, Krak & Maxy.
No way Ball be going anywhere. I believe Shaw will stay & move back up the ground (not sure if H wants to keep going??).
We have to wait & see on Daisy.....seasons over Daisy...what's the score?? The longer this drags the more likely he is off.
If he was 100% staying he should come out now & say that....just dotting the i's etc.

 

[jabbers]

or what it is worth here is my evaluation of our list:


Keep:

Scott Pendlebury

Luke Ball

Clinton Young

Jarrod Witts

Dayne Beams

Jamie Elliott

Ben Reid

Steele Sidebottom

Lachlan Keeffe

Josh Thomas

Ben Kennedy

Ben Sinclair

Tim Broomhead

Jackson Ramsay

Travis Cloke

Alan Toovey

Brodie Grundy

Dane Swan

Kyle Martin

Paul Seedsman

Sam Dwyer

Adam Oxley

Jack Frost

Marley Williams

Caolan Mooney

Ben Richmond



Open To Trade



Brent Macaffer

Alex Fasolo

Heritier O'Brien

Jarryd Blair

Dale Thomas

Nathan Brown

Heath Shaw



Seek Trade

Tyson Goldsack

Delist/Retire/Trade



Jordan Russell

Alan Didak

Andrew Krakouer

Martin Clarke

Darren Jolly

Ben Hudson

Jackson Paine

Corey Gault

Peter Yagmoor

Michael Hartley



Undecided



Nick Maxwell

Quinten Lynch

 

[loki04]

I think Blair tackled his guts out.

The problem is Blair cannot be our number 1 small forward. He needs Elliott and Fasolo up there as well. Elliott was obviously playing injured and Fasolo needs a big pre-season.

Then I think Blair will go back to playing that nuggety role where he sneaks under the radar.

A lot of Blairs tackles don't stick, he is physically too small and I'm not just talking in terms of height he has a very narrow frame.

He lacks pace for his size, he lacks polish for his size he is an old fashioned trier and really should be a depth player has his good games but generally against quality opponents is shown up.

 

[GETSOMENUTS]

True. MM has said before they sat Blair down in a meeting and said where do you see yourself fitting in and which player in the league do you think you can be like for us. I cant recall the player he compared himself to, MM pointed out David Rodan. Blair has been a good trier but we should seriously bee looking at upgrading his position in the team. He can be "depth".

 

[the distributer]

I'd offer up Sidders and Brown for pick 1, need to give quality to get quality, those players i think we can cover.

Sidders IMO will never take the next step, he just doesn't have the physical attributes of the truely elite midfielders and he lacks strengh and kicking penetration (his overall kicking is overrated IMO), lacks pace as well, quality player but as i said, if we want pick one we need to give up quality.

Brown, solid defender-good player, i just feel we can cover him.

If we could get pick 1 we get Boyd, Boyd apparently is a superstar KF, Reid then goes back into defense.

 

[jabbers]

I'd offer up Sidders and Brown for pick 1, need to give quality to get quality, those players i think we can cover.

Sidders IMO will never take the next step, he just doesn't have the physical attributes of the truely elite midfielders and he lacks strengh and kicking penetration (his overall kicking is overrated IMO), lacks pace as well, quality player but as i said, if we want pick one we need to give up quality.

Brown, solid defender-good player, i just feel we can cover him.

If we could get pick 1 we get Boyd, Boyd apparently is a superstar KF, Reid then goes back into defense.

Problem is that deal wouldn't be enough to get close to securing Boyd.

 

[DaVe86]

I don't think Buckley was out-coached by Hinkley. We dominated most statistical categories.

It was disposal that let us down...and fitness.

Port is a good side. When I was doing the preview i realised that this was not going to be an easy assignment because their midfield is quite deep and underrated backline.

They just used the ball better.