Climate Change Arguing

[SBD Gonzalez]

Did I say it was just the movie?

The movie, the scare campaign and the masses of government money directed his way.

Your post implied that. Thanks for the clarification.

How does one make millions of dollars from a scare campaign?

And if Al Gore’s received millions of dollars in govt grants and kept them all for himself he should be in prison.

But I suspect he didn’t do that.

Where are you getting all this from, BTW?

 

[Crankitup]

So lets add up all the money spent on the environment and climate change and compare that to all the money spent on weapons and keeping brown people out.

I am willing to bet any amount you care to mention that the environment will lose badly. Like by a factor of 100.

I'll take that bet if you're still willing. My proposed terms are as follows. We will compare worldwide spending on climate change and worldwide spending on defense (aka military expenditure) and if the spending on defense is less than 10 times as much, I win. Agree to these terms and I'll pick an amount.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

View attachment 756825


Oh the irony. You’ve ignored questions I’ve posed you in this thread and until now I’ve not even mentioned it.

Oh, is that so? I'm very sorry to hear that. I've endeavored to address all of your points thus far in this thread regardless of how gratuitous I've found them. If I've missed one or you're not entirely satisfied with my answer, please feel free to requote it next time and I'll be happy to take another look

The fact is I answer you usually within a few hours of your posts to me. You respond sometimes days later.

Well again, I'm very sorry for having things in my life like hobbies and a job which preclude me from having a spare 15 minutes on a whim to spend typing out these responses. Please don't feel pressured to sacrifice time with your loved ones or let your professional ambitions slide just to ensure I have a response in front of me whenever I open this website, I'm quite sympathetic to others in my position.

It hasn’t been days since you requested those other things

Well, if I take days to reply, and it's been at least two replies since I asked for something then...

and I fully intend to address this and the other points

Yeah, sure. When you walk the walk I'll be a believer.

but the sticking point at the moment is the dishonest way you are dealing with me. You have misrepresented my position and lied about what I have and haven’t said at least three times in this thread so far. If you aren’t going to deal honestly I’m not going to waste any more time on you at all. I suspect this is what you wanted all along. Don't twist my words or misrepresent what I've said or GAGF.

Nah, I'm gonna keep replying to you in exactly the manner I have been doing all thread and if you don't like it then these are your options:
a) Stop replying;
b) report my posts;
c) put me on ignore;
d) admit you're a little low on scientific evidence and walk away from the table (ie. the high road).

Another misrepresentation. BTW it’s a bit rich to come across as someone prepared to refute what you see as denialist concepts if you refuse to read them.

I've read 3 out of 3 of the actual research papers you've posted in this thread and I'd dearly love to read an articulate research paper by the esteemed Professor Tim Ball on ozone depletion, I'm actually just waiting for you to post it. Like all the other stuff you "fully intend" to post.

Given this is going around in circles, how about you take a leaf out of my book and just not reply to this post until you have all of your shit together, like all of those scientific reports you were going to refute? Then maybe we won't get bogged down in the personal crap and we can actually debate the science that you're so sure of? Just a suggestion

 

[Crankitup]

Nah, I'm gonna keep replying to you in exactly the manner I have been doing all thread.

Since you've confirmed you intend to keep on misrepresenting me and twisting my words, we're done. As I said, I suspect it's what you wanted all along. If you change your mind I'll be happy to pick up where we left off. If anyone else reading this wants to repose your questions to me I'll be happy to deal with them.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Since you've confirmed you intend to keep on misrepresenting me and twisting my words, we're done. As I said, I suspect it's what you wanted all along. If you change your mind I'll be happy to pick up where we left off. If anyone else reading this wants to repose your questions to me I'll happy to deal with them.

Please feel free to pick up where we left off at anytime by posting those responses that you fully intended to get around to. The floor is yours. You can start to walk the walk that you've been talking up whenever you please hombre. I'm not letting you get out of this so cheaply.

 

[JackOutback]

Since you've confirmed you intend to keep on misrepresenting me and twisting my words, we're done. As I said, I suspect it's what you wanted all along. If you change your mind I'll be happy to pick up where we left off. If anyone else reading this wants to repose your questions to me I'll be happy to deal with them.

That’s a shame, I was following the back and forth. He asked some very precise questions that you never answered (I won’t go so far as to say avoided).

 

[Crankitup]

Please feel free to pick up where we left off at anytime by posting those responses that you fully intended to get around to. The floor is yours. You can start to walk the walk that you've been talking up whenever you please hombre. I'm not letting you get out of this so cheaply.

All you have to do is say that from now on you won't misrepresent what I've said or my position again and we're back on board. Too proud?

 

[Crankitup]

That’s a shame, I was following the back and forth. He asked some very precise questions that you never answered (I won’t go so far as to say avoided).

It's funny how you never noticed the very precise questions I asked him which he never answered. I won't say avoided.

 

[QuietB]

I'll take that bet if you're still willing. My proposed terms are as follows. We will compare worldwide spending on climate change and worldwide spending on defense (aka military expenditure) and if the spending on defense is less than 10 times as much, I win. Agree to these terms and I'll pick an amount.

USA EPA budget - circa $8b
USA defence budget - circa $600b

That is a factor of 1-75

That is not really fair - let’s consider those pesky greenies the Germans.

German climate related spending - €2.3b
German defence budget - €47.3b

Hmm, better, 1-20

Australian government environment budget - $900m
Australian defence budget - $34.5b

My calculator unfortunately does not have enough zeros

Do you want me to do Russia? Saudi Arabia? Israel?

 

[HairyO]

Your post implied that. Thanks for the clarification.

How does one make millions of dollars from a scare campaign?

And if Al Gore’s received millions of dollars in govt grants and kept them all for himself he should be in prison.

But I suspect he didn’t do that.

Where are you getting all this from, BTW?

Look at his investment companies and look at how much tax money they receive.

Its really quite simple. He has profited enormously.

 

[Crankitup]

USA EPA budget - circa $8b
USA defence budget - circa $600b

That is a factor of 1-75

That is not really fair - let’s consider those pesky greenies the Germans.

German climate related spending - €2.3b
German defence budget - €47.3b

Hmm, better, 1-20

Australian government environment budget - $900m
Australian defence budget - $34.5b

My calculator unfortunately does not have enough zeros

Do you want me to do Russia? Saudi Arabia? Israel?

I repeat - my proposed terms are as follows. We will compare worldwide spending on climate change and worldwide spending on defense (aka military expenditure) and if the spending on defense is less than 10 times as much (remember you said 100), I win. Agree to these terms and I'll pick an amount.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Look at his investment companies and look at how much tax money they receive.

Its really quite simple. He has profited enormously.

Sure. If it really is that simple, please just point me to his companies' annual financial statements so I know you're not just making schit up.

Sorry, what is "tax money"?

 

[Les Malone]

This about sums up the climate loons, even crazy eyes AOC looks a bit worried.

 

[kranky al]

Posted without comment....

 

[Crankitup]

QuietB I notice you've visited Bigfooty since I posted this #685. Chickening out? If so, let me know and I'll just post the info that shows that (if you had the gonads) you would have lost the bet you proposed.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

So the Reserve Bank of Australia joins the long list of those who have been completely hoodwinked by Greta Thunberg:

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...posing-increasing-risk-to-financial-stability

Reading the article, I see ASIC and APRA have fallen under her evil influence too.

Is there no limit to her awesome powers?

(Or is it they who have puppeteered her? Someone please clarify. The thing about conspiracy theories is that they all show a conveniently endless malleability.)

Makes me laugh, seeing the ever-more tangled knots the swivel-eyes have to tie themselves up in, to convince themselves that global warming is all a greenie haox.

Seriously folks, when in just the space of the few recent weeks, raving Greenie lunatic institutions like the RBA, like APRA, ASIC, the head of the Australian Defence Forces, fund managers representing half all of money under management worldwide, and global insurance giants (whose very existence depends on their ability to calculate future risk) are all coming out and saying we need to be concerned about climate change, it's probably time to find a new conspiracy theory. This one is stuffed.

 

[QuietB]

QuietB I notice you've visited Bigfooty since I posted this #685. Chickening out? If so, let me know and I'll just post the info that shows that (if you had the gonads) you would have lost the bet you proposed.

Sure - I’m chickening our. Post it

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

QuietB I notice you've visited Bigfooty since I posted this #685. Chickening out? If so, let me know and I'll just post the info that shows that (if you had the gonads) you would have lost the bet you proposed.

Speaking of, are you any closer to getting that information you fully intended to post or are your knickers still twisted?

 

[Kwality]

So the Reserve Bank of Australia joins the long list of those who have been completely hoodwinked by Greta Thunberg:

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...posing-increasing-risk-to-financial-stability

Reading the article, I see ASIC and APRA have fallen under her evil influence too.

Is there no limit to her awesome powers?

(Or is it they who have puppeteered her? Someone please clarify. The thing about conspiracy theories is that they all show a conveniently endless malleability.)

Makes me laugh, seeing the ever-more tangled knots the swivel-eyes have to tie themselves up in, to convince themselves that global warming is all a greenie haox.

Seriously folks, when in just the space of the few recent weeks, raving Greenie lunatic institutions like the RBA, like APRA, ASIC, the head of the Australian Defence Forces, fund managers representing half all of money under management worldwide, and global insurance giants (whose very existence depends on their ability to calculate future risk) are all coming out and saying we need to be concerned about climate change, it's probably time to find a new conspiracy theory. This one is stuffed.

& many of us buy climate change but arent comfortable with the politics around it, e.g a bloke from Tassie & a caravan of mates wanting to drive into town & tell other people how to live. In fairness to Bob, see his recent independent stance on a wind farm, he made sure the caravaners stayed in caravan parks unlike another group pf activists.

As for Greta Thunberg can you tell me who is funding this circus & how transparent are those behind the recent change in PR policy to rebadge under The Climate Emergency?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

& many of us buy climate change but arent comfortable with the politics around it, e.g a bloke from Tassie & a caravan of mates wanting to drive into town & tell other people how to live. In fairness to Bob, see his recent independent stance on a wind farm, he made sure the caravaners stayed in caravan parks unlike another group pf activists.

As for Greta Thunberg can you tell me who is funding this circus & how transparent are those behind the recent change in PR policy to rebadge under The Climate Emergency?

Well it's time to get over your discomfort.

Who's funding Thunberg? Haven't we been through this?

(a) I don't care, it makes no difference to her message, which is all she's interested in.

(b) I doubt a phenomenon like her needs a whole heap of "funding". Whether the media want to praise her or slam her, they can't get enough of her. They are beating a path to her door. What's to fund? I don't think you really understand how celebrity and fame work.

Anyway, all irrelevant. The world is going to hell in a handcart, someone is telling us the plain truth (if you don't like hearing it from Greta, there are plenty of old white males saying the same thing - not all old white males are reactionaries. Some of them are qualified scientists) - and people like you want to say 'HANG ON A MINUTE!! WHO'S FUNDING THIS??"

WHO CARES?

 

[Kwality]

Who's funding Thunberg? Haven't we been through this?

(a) I don't care, it makes no difference to her message, which is all she's interested in.

If, IF you feel comfortable, fine. I'm not, dont like being treated like a follower the likes of Folau.

I'm very critical of a big section of climate change brethren that believe & cant accept their attitude is doing harm to the message.

Yes, I question the messages fed to us, the attempts by anyone trying to shame rather than inform - one time Tim Flannery did not add up as an expert, it rained, not that he was wrong he simply ran off at the mouth.

Sadly for you SBD you are very unlikely to be a part of the solution.

 

[Crankitup]

Sure - I’m chickening our. Post it

Worldwide military spending rose to $1822 billion for 2018. This was an increase of 2.6% from 2017.

Worldwide spending on climate change for 2018 was projected to land somewhere between $510 billion to $530 billion. If we assume the midpoint ($520 billion) that represents more than 28.5% of defense spending.

Factoring it out, worldwide military spending is close to 3.5 times as much as is spent on climate change.

https://www.sipri.org/media/press-release/2019/world-military-expenditure-grows-18-trillion-2018

https://climatepolicyinitiative.org...obal-Climate-Finance-An-Updated-View-2018.pdf

Further reading for shits and giggles - https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/follow-the-climate-change-money

 

[QuietB]

Worldwide military spending rose to $1822 billion for 2018. This was an increase of 2.6% from 2017.

Worldwide spending on climate change for 2018 was projected to land somewhere between $510 billion to $530 billion. If we assume the midpoint ($520 billion) that represents more than 28.5% of defense spending.

Factoring it out, worldwide military spending is close to 3.5 times as much as is spent on climate change.

https://www.sipri.org/media/press-release/2019/world-military-expenditure-grows-18-trillion-2018

https://climatepolicyinitiative.org...obal-Climate-Finance-An-Updated-View-2018.pdf

Further reading for s**ts and giggles - https://www.heritage.org/environment/commentary/follow-the-climate-change-money

So any investment in solar or wind energy is considered “climate change spending”

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If, IF you feel comfortable, fine. I'm not, dont like being treated like a follower the likes of Folau.

I'm very critical of a big section of climate change brethren that believe & cant accept their attitude is doing harm to the message.

Yes, I question the messages fed to us, the attempts by anyone trying to shame rather than inform - one time Tim Flannery did not add up as an expert, it rained, not that he was wrong he simply ran off at the mouth.

Sadly for you SBD you are very unlikely to be a part of the solution.

Jeez, just get out there and do something.

 

[Crankitup]

So any investment in solar or wind energy is considered “climate change spending”

Actually the word solar doesn't appear anywhere in the entirety of the document. As far as wind goes, this was the only mention

...the investment related to the deployment of a wind farm is counted, but not the finance related to researching and developing the technology, the manufacturing of the wind farm equipment or the revenue support provided to the wind farm owners. After the project is constructed, finance related to securing better financing terms (refinancing) or the acquisition of the asset by new owners is similarly not counted.

Seems pretty strict criteria to me.

Wind and solar probably both just fall under the umbrella of renewables, which wouldn't just be wind and solar. That term is used 9 times in the 15 page document. It's one of a multitude of climate change spending categories.

For someone who has argued so consistently in the past for renewables as the panacea, this just smells of sour grapes that your estimate of defense spending outstripping climate change spending by a factor of 100 was so far off base. Look on the bright side, at least you didn't lose any money on it. You chickened out at just the right time.

BTW this isn't some right wing group, this is the very leftist Cimate Policy Initiative, seen as the authority in this arena. They want spending on climate change to increase to $5 trillion. That would be very close to 2.75 times what the world currently spends on defense FFS.