News Co-Captains: Walker and Sloane

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Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Do we not develop leadership among our young players? Do our younger players hang back? Are they not encouraged to stand up as leaders? Are our players not encouraged to make bold, adventurous and forward looking choices? In 2010 we had Goody as captain and appointed a similar leadership group: Brad Symes, Scott Stevens, Nathan van Berlo, Ben Rutten, Michael Doughty, Brett Burton and Tyson Edwards. Our choices this year have a similarly conservative vibe.
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That is probably the most Neil Craig leadership group ever. Did he release a highlights DVD?
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
When the players previously voted in Brad Symes was that all good? No right and wrong?

Or is the group our players selected an indication of their mindset - defer to older players, don't rock the boat, wait your turn. Are there not many players 21-25 years of age who are ready to step up and take the club with them? Stamp their influence on the team, club and competition.

Do we not develop leadership among our young players? Do our younger players hang back? Are they not encouraged to stand up as leaders? Are our players not encouraged to make bold, adventurous and forward looking choices? In 2010 we had Goody as captain and appointed a similar leadership group: Brad Symes, Scott Stevens, Nathan van Berlo, Ben Rutten, Michael Doughty, Brett Burton and Tyson Edwards. Our choices this year have a similarly conservative vibe.

Talia as an example - surely after his injury plagued 2018 and now his injury plagued preseason - would be an ideal candidate to NOT be in the leadership group. Needs to devote absolutely 100% of his energy into his own fitness and extending his own career. Skip sessions as required. Basically stick to his own individual training program rather than be front and centre leading others.

I wonder if there is some sort of financial bonus for players (s)elected into these positions?
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The only question that matters is: does the leadership group have any meaningful impact on performance?

I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever. Aside from the captain, the rest of the group is purely 'for show'. Meaningless.

We can look at examples of players putting their hand up to play when they aren't right. Walker. Sloane. Jacobs. Are they getting picked because they are the captain and leaders? Or are they getting picked in those instances purely because they are good players and we need them?

Does Talia getting named in the leadership group mean he won't focus on his recovery? I think that's a laughable suggestion for a professional athlete.

Does being in the leadership group mean you have a golden ticket? No, as evidenced by Thommo and VB making the leadership group then not playing.

Do young players need to be selected in the leadership group to develop themselves as leaders? Do we not have any young leaders? Well no, firstly we have Matt Crouch in the group as a young leader. And secondly you don't need to be in the group to show leadership.
 

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Scorpus said:
The only question that matters is: does the leadership group have any meaningful impact on performance?

I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever. Aside from the captain, the rest of the group is purely 'for show'. Meaningless.

We can look at examples of players putting their hand up to play when they aren't right. Walker. Sloane. Jacobs. Are they getting picked because they are the captain and leaders? Or are they getting picked in those instances purely because they are good players and we need them?

Does Talia getting named in the leadership group mean he won't focus on his recovery? I think that's a laughable suggestion for a professional athlete.

Does being in the leadership group mean you have a golden ticket? No, as evidenced by Thommo and VB making the leadership group then not playing.

Do young players need to be selected in the leadership group to develop themselves as leaders? Do we not have any young leaders? Well no, firstly we have Matt Crouch in the group as a young leader. And secondly you don't need to be in the group to show leadership.
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Well then your argument is that there is no need for there to be a leadership group at all, rather than the players made the right call on who they want to lead them
 
Think there’s a bit of purposefully looking for negatives here. Pyke would encourage younger player to be leaders, even if it’s not in an official capacity. A guy like Doedee I imagine they’d be grooming as a potential leader of the club, but he’s played like 20 games and needs to worry about himself first, Milera would be similar. That doesn’t mean that when they’re on the field they don’t lead. I heard Doods and Davis doing plenty at the trial last weekend. Laird by his own admission isn’t a vocal guy and doesn’t sound massively interested in that sort of role.

Matt is a good guy to have in there to develop. 24 when the season starts, he’s developed himself as a player over nearly 100 games and now he’s ready to take on an expanded role within the team.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Well then your argument is that there is no need for there to be a leadership group at all, rather than the players made the right call on who they want to lead them
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Well the two issues are different.

The leadership group is meaningless.

In situations where there is a leadership group, the players voted on their choice of leaders which makes their decision the right call given only the playing group is impacted by the decision.

So the conclusion is the players made the right call on who to select as leaders, but really there doesn't need to be a leadership group at all.
 
Anyone know who was in and how experienced our leadership group was in '97 and '98? I know it was a different era but still interested none-the-less. Had a quick search but can't seem to find anything.

Or 2005? 2006? 2009? 2012?
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
When the players previously voted in Brad Symes was that all good? No right and wrong?
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You might look at that in hindsight as "wrong", although I wonder what the players of the time would say. I just think that while supporters are of course entitled to express opinions about who we think "should" be in the leadership group, we're not in a position to argue, from the outside, that our opinion is "right".

It's different from having an opinion about selection policy. You can make a case, based on facts, evidence and footy logic, for the selection/omission of a given player. I don't think it's anywhere near as easy to make a case for who you think the players themselves should choose as their leadership group.

Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Or is the group our players selected an indication of their mindset - defer to older players, don't rock the boat, wait your turn. Are there not many players 21-25 years of age who are ready to step up and take the club with them? Stamp their influence on the team, club and competition.
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Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Do we not develop leadership among our young players? Do our younger players hang back? Are they not encouraged to stand up as leaders?
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I think you are projecting / assuming the most negative possibility.

We could probably all make a list of young players who we consider to be candidates for the leadership group - starting with Doedee - but that doesn't mean that they are ready now, or indeed that their teammates consider them ready for that role right now.

Doedee (for example) is almost certainly (perceived as, by his teammates and coaches) a young leader at the club. That doesn't mean he needs to be in the leadership group right now.

Douglas is the one that a lot of people have commented on - hmmm, he shouldn't be seen as a lock for the 22 this year, but now he's in the leadership group, he's more likely to be selected, therefore he shouldn't be in the leadership group... Nah. The players see him as a leader, he can perform at least some of the duties of the leadership group without being selected, it's not all about on-field leadership, and he can lead/mentor young players in the SANFL.

Maybe some might be cynical about the club's selection policy re Douglas, but I don't think his position in the leadership group is relevant to that.
 
Scorpus said:
Well the two issues are different.

The leadership group is meaningless.

In situations where there is a leadership group, the players voted on their choice of leaders which makes their decision the right call given only the playing group is impacted by the decision.

So the conclusion is the players made the right call on who to select as leaders, but really there doesn't need to be a leadership group at all.
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Pretty much this. Except - a leadership group is relevant when it comes to disciplining their teammates for breaches of team rules, poor off-field behaviour etc.

So hopefully our leadership group will be entirely irrelevant this year!
 
ChilliP said:
Leadership group != "these are our most important players" group.
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No it doesn't, but it is always concerning when someone who is at the cliff edge gets more responsibility. Now, it could be just the case that they still want Dougy to influence the group despite being consigned to the SANFL, but I doubt the idea comes from that angle.
 

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Golumless said:
No it doesn't, but it is always concerning when someone who is at the cliff edge gets more responsibility. Now, it could be just the case that they still want Dougy to influence the group despite being consigned to the SANFL, but I doubt the idea comes from that angle.
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I don't think it comes from any "angle" other than "we respect him and we want him as one of our official leaders".

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
 
maxlilly said:
Seven people in the leadership group appears too many for me.
I would like to see maybe four or five.
It almost looks like every (senior) player wins a prize.
Or like every kid gets a medal these days
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We had four last year
 
Tomorrows leaders learn from todays leaders - i have no concerns with our leadership group being predominantly older & more experienced. I dont see that in any way as an implication that our younger generation lack leadership potential. We're fortunate to have strong mentors in all areas of the ground. Not a fan of the 7 man group though.
 
jumboprince said:
Missed the boat a bit there, Jerka and Douggie could have missed.

In saying that, might be a player voted sort of thing, probably via facebook ( who has the most followers...) god I hate Millennials, always late with their rent and now this
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Dougie’s there to provide a reason for selection if his form heads south. Lock him in for 22 plus finals, he won’t be playing SANFL.
 
hey shorty said:
The players picked the leadership group
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The players cast their vote but do the players then do the count? You’d be very naive to believe that a coaching group wouldn’t manipulate the results if they were fixed on a certain outcome. What if a player like Matty Jaensch got all the votes from the young crew? Do you reckon he’d have made the leadership group?
 
Scorpus said:
Haven't Thommo and Van Berlo been part of our leadership groups in the twilight of their careers only to play very few games?
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Pretty sure VB was. When he was idiotically recalled for the Gold Coast game he made a special effort to mention that he and Talia were the 2 leaders down back. Can’t recall if Thommo was in the leadership group for his gold watch year. Dougie’s body is not yet cooked to the point Thommo’s was and his role is much more peripheral, so even if we carry him through 2019, it won’t be as damaging to our performance.
 
Gee that broken record is on pretty loud again.
 
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