Co-Captains. WHY?

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[Rhayader]

Given the discussion has moved on to co-CEOs, here's an extract from Google AI:

High-Profile Corporate Examples

• Netflix (2020–Present): Reed Hastings moved to executive chairman, appointing Ted Sarandos and Greg Peters as co-CEOs to share strategic oversight and operational management.
• KKR & Co. (2021–Present): Following decades of co-leadership by founders Henry Kravis and George Roberts, the firm appointed Scott Nuttall and Joseph Bae as co-CEOs.
• Oracle (2014–2019): Safra Catz and Mark Hurd were appointed co-CEOs, with responsibilities split between operations/finance (Catz) and sales/services (Hurd).
• Vontobel (2024–Present): Georg Schubiger (Wealth Management) and Dr. Christel Rendu de Lint (Investments) were appointed co-CEOs to ensure a unified vision across different business units.
• Salesforce (2018–2020): Keith Block was appointed co-CEO alongside Marc Benioff to manage operational growth.
• Intel (2024): David Zinsner and Michelle (MJ) Johnston Holthaus were appointed as interim co-CEOs.

Key Drivers and Structures

• Complementary Strengths: In many cases, one leader focuses on internal operations/finance while the other focuses on external growth/sales.
• Mergers and Acquisitions: This model is often used to merge two companies, allowing leaders from both entities to maintain power and reduce integration friction.
• Family-Run Businesses: Companies like J.M. Smucker have successfully used this model, with Timothy and Richard Smucker acting as co-CEOs to leverage shared trust.

Limitations
While successful in many cases, the model can struggle during crises requiring rapid, singular decision-making. For example, SAP and Unilever both reverted to a single CEO model after experiencing performance issues or needing to accelerate decision-making.

Off topic, but Google AI is wrong just often enough that you have to double check what it says, making it basically worthless…

 

[unitedhawk2]

Off topic, but Google AI is wrong just often enough that you have to double check what it says, making it basically worthless…

Agreed.

The point I was trying to highlight is that the co-CEOs model in the corporate world is not too rare.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Two years ago we had co-captains at my local footy club.

The reason why it's taken me so long to remember is because absolutely nothing changed and the only reason it stopped is because one of them moved to the Gold Coast.

The Hawks will be fine.

The only thing that might change is that those more aligned with Jai's age group will be more comfortable seeking his assurances for personal matters, and likewise those a bit older seeking Sicily's.

 

[mknaven]

I don't see how it could be a bad thing - ppl are only suggesting imaginary problems. I think Newk will complement Sic's leadership style well and keeping Sic as Cap will just ease the load on Newk rather than dumping the whole load on him at once.

 

[Hawked Wings]

I think you'll find not much will change other than Jai taking a few media spots. Sicily will still do the main things and ease Jai into it until he's ready to take over and become captain by himself

 

[mustang]

Difference is at the end Clarko was taking his own advice.

Sam is a modern leader spending time learning and researching the best ways of doing things. Sam pushes outside his personal comfort zone to embrace better ways of doing things.

I need to hear solid arguments about why 2 captains are bad and examples of how it doesn't work. As of now it seems to be the successful model

The thing with Clarko, it looks like he wasn't the brains behind the partnership of Clarko and Fagan, once Fagan left Clarko really didn't do much look at it now, one is still struggling the other is a 2 time premiership coach and could win more, the other hasn't looked a 4 time premiership coach since they parted company, Mitchell and Fagan seem to be cut by the same brush so think the same, still not a fan of the dual captains but.

 

[TheFourPillars]

The thing with Clarko, it looks like he wasn't the brains behind the partnership of Clarko and Fagan, once Fagan left Clarko really didn't do much look at it now, one is still struggling the other is a 2 time premiership coach and could win more, the other hasn't looked a 4 time premiership coach since they parted company.

Mate that's some top rated BS. Clarkson is one of the best coaches that as ever coached. Every coach has an expiry date where the game goes past them and or the message get stale. Make no mistake Clarkson was the master mind around modern structures we used so well to salute

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Mate that's some top rated BS. Clarkson is one of the best coaches that as ever coached. Every coach has an expiry date where the game goes past them and or the message get stale. Make no mistake Clarkson was the master mind around modern strutures we used so well to salute

I think Clarkos issues are less to do with his tactical ability and more to do with his inability to regulate the more excessive elements of his personality.

That's probably why Clarko and Fagan were such a good team.

Fages is brilliant at managing people's emotions and he would have helped "smooth" out some of Clarkos rough edges.

In fact looking at Fages success at Brisbane I'm kinda coming around to the viewpoint that being a successful AFL coach is more about being able to manage people than it is tactical innovation.

Basically keep your playing group happy and focussed and you are half way there already.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I think Clarkos issues are less to do with his tactical ability and more to do with his inability to regulate the more excessive elements of his personality.

That's probably why Clarko and Fagan were such a good team.

Fages is brilliant at managing people's emotions and he would have helped "smooth" out some of Clarkos rough edges.

In fact looking at Fages success at Brisbane I'm kinda coming around to the viewpoint that being a successful AFL coach is more about being able to manage people than it is tactical innovation.

Basically keep your playing group happy and focussed and you are half way there already.

Umm then u dont know Mitchell well. Let me try and describe what he has been doing. He drives them hard to an approach a hard task master and he isn't afraid to dish it out when they are not doing what he expects. He also enables them to drive themselves. He is proponent of high achievers and self driven individuals.

The environment is quite intimidating to young players you would imagine. They embrace it or they get left behind and their dream ends. He is brutal. He is the power that drives this club through recruitment and trades hence the big push to get Merrett just highly driven individual who would have added to the hawthorn utopia. There are different methods to getting to be a good football team. Mitchell has his own methods and the results are self evident

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

The thing with Clarko, it looks like he wasn't the brains behind the partnership of Clarko and Fagan, once Fagan left Clarko really didn't do much look at it now, one is still struggling the other is a 2 time premiership coach and could win more, the other hasn't looked a 4 time premiership coach since they parted company, Mitchell and Fagan seem to be cut by the same brush so think the same, still not a fan of the dual captains but.

Think Fagan has a tad better list to work with than Clarko.

 

[peetoo]

Clarkson joined hawthorn at the end of 2004. Fagan joined hawthorn as coaching director 2008. He worked pretty quick if he was the brains behind 2008 flag

Truth probably is that they were a good combo as both have said many times

 

[H00t]

Umm then u dont know Mitchell well. Let me try and describe what he has been doing. He drives them hard to an approach a hard task master and he isn't afraid to dish it out when they are not doing what he expects. He also enables them to drive themselves. He is proponent of high achievers and self driven individuals.

The environment is quite intimidating to young players you would imagine. They embrace it or they get left behind and their dream ends. He is brutal. He is the power that drives this club through recruitment and trades hence the big push to get Merrett just highly driven individual who would have added to the hawthorn utopia. There are different methods to getting to be a good football team. Mitchell has his own methods and the results are self evident

Having high standards and creating a positive environment aren’t separate things that can’t co-exist.

Brisbane have got both. Clarko seemed to have lost it 2020 or so when the players looked so much less enthusiastic out there.

It’s also something Mitchell has had to learn from his early playing days. A happy player will be much more motivated to train harder.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Having high standards and creating a positive environment aren’t separate things that can’t co-exist.

Brisbane have got both. Clarko seemed to have lost it 2020 or so when the players looked so much less enthusiastic out there.

It’s also something Mitchell has had to learn from his early playing days. A happy player will be much more motivated to train harder.

I am not saying that its not a happy place. But i will maintain it can be intimidating coming in to this high output environment. It can inspire the right person but also be a negative to others

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Having high standards and creating a positive environment aren’t separate things that can’t co-exist.

Brisbane have got both. Clarko seemed to have lost it 2020 or so when the players looked so much less enthusiastic out there.

It’s also something Mitchell has had to learn from his early playing days. A happy player will be much more motivated to train harder.

It's an age old adage but it is still true, once a coach loses a playing group their days are numbered.

Of course Fages has benefited from having a very talented list to work with but I've always been struck by how much his players seem to have genuine affection for him.

I can't see that being a bad thing.

 

[Randy Campbell]

Come what may you'll find us striving.

Is the reason why.

We must continue to be unrelenting in our search for constant and continued improvement.

Having one captain might of worked in the past, but does that mean, that we can't do it better?

 

[kazzooka]

The thing with Clarko, it looks like he wasn't the brains behind the partnership of Clarko and Fagan, once Fagan left Clarko really didn't do much look at it now, one is still struggling the other is a 2 time premiership coach and could win more, the other hasn't looked a 4 time premiership coach since they parted company, Mitchell and Fagan seem to be cut by the same brush so think the same, still not a fan of the dual captains but.

Clarkson brought success to Port before us. He was the guy behind our 4 premierships and was the one to develop those around him.

HE was an innovator, and even during the decline when the shortcut rebuild failed to deliver (a few factors beyond his control there) in his last few years from 2017 - 2021 , we still rarely got thrashed, could always pull off a win against a top 4 side even when struggling, and would always do the job and beat the truly crap sides.

At North Melbourne he's a year out of the game, then has the time off and comes in with a list he didn't build and no momentum and didn't have the list that he had in 2005 at Hawthorn to rebuild from nor the opportunity to draft like we did in 2004.

I think Fagan is a great coach, I loved him as a player when he was our high performance manager at Ormond. But he HAS NOT won a legitimate AFL Premiership as coach, Clarkson won 4, including against a Robinson, Dank and Thompson "supplemented" Geelong and a Cola enhanced Sydney who had 3 of their top 5 players poached from us with unfair salary cap advantages.

Until he wins a flag at a club playing by the same rules as the other 14 teams it's meaningless.

 

[killerspud]

The thing with Clarko, it looks like he wasn't the brains behind the partnership of Clarko and Fagan, once Fagan left Clarko really didn't do much look at it now, one is still struggling the other is a 2 time premiership coach and could win more, the other hasn't looked a 4 time premiership coach since they parted company, Mitchell and Fagan seem to be cut by the same brush so think the same, still not a fan of the dual captains but.

That's flat out wrong - Fages wasn't the brains of the Hawthorn operation - he was important in that he was the Bulwark, the guy who would challenge Clarko's ideas, in this regard he was essential because he wasn't a yes man and put brakes on Clarko but to say he was controlling things is crap - Clarko won 4 flags at Hawthorn, he was the best coach from 2005-2015 no doubt about it. He moved the game along and was innovative but then the game moved past him.

Fagan is a wonderful human (one of the nicest people I've met in footy) BUT he inherited a fantastic list with champions on every line a couple on top three draft picks in McLuggage and Rayner, an incredible spine with Harris Andrews and Daniher amazing recruits like Cameron and Neale and finally kissed on the pecker with the father son's Ashcroft brothers. He's a great people person and built a strong group of players and coaches but I've seen nothing to say he's the brains behind the on field operation there and he hasn't changed the game like Clarkson did - its amazing you pot Clarko then say how great Fagan is and that Mitchell is the same but then you don't like the dual captains thing that they both did that clarko didn't - not sure what its all about really just some words

 

[tommyk72]

That's flat out wrong - Fages wasn't the brains of the Hawthorn operation - he was important in that he was the Bulwark, the guy who would challenge Clarko's ideas, in this regard he was essential because he wasn't a yes man and put brakes on Clarko but to say he was controlling things is crap - Clarko won 4 flags at Hawthorn, he was the best coach from 2005-2015 no doubt about it. He moved the game along and was innovative but then the game moved past him.

Fagan is a wonderful human (one of the nicest people I've met in footy) BUT he inherited a fantastic list with champions on every line a couple on top three draft picks in McLuggage and Rayner, an incredible spine with Harris Andrews and Daniher amazing recruits like Cameron and Neale and finally kissed on the pecker with the father son's Ashcroft brothers. He's a great people person and built a strong group of players and coaches but I've seen nothing to say he's the brains behind the on field operation there and he hasn't changed the game like Clarkson did - its amazing you pot Clarko then say how great Fagan is and that Mitchell is the same but then you don't like the dual captains thing that they both did that clarko didn't - not sure what its all about really just some words

Not according to the AFL...

But I agree with everything else you've written.

 

[peetoo]

That's flat out wrong - Fages wasn't the brains of the Hawthorn operation - he was important in that he was the Bulwark, the guy who would challenge Clarko's ideas, in this regard he was essential because he wasn't a yes man and put brakes on Clarko but to say he was controlling things is crap - Clarko won 4 flags at Hawthorn, he was the best coach from 2005-2015 no doubt about it. He moved the game along and was innovative but then the game moved past him.

Fagan is a wonderful human (one of the nicest people I've met in footy) BUT he inherited a fantastic list with champions on every line a couple on top three draft picks in McLuggage and Rayner, an incredible spine with Harris Andrews and Daniher amazing recruits like Cameron and Neale and finally kissed on the pecker with the father son's Ashcroft brothers. He's a great people person and built a strong group of players and coaches but I've seen nothing to say he's the brains behind the on field operation there and he hasn't changed the game like Clarkson did - its amazing you pot Clarko then say how great Fagan is and that Mitchell is the same but then you don't like the dual captains thing that they both did that clarko didn't - not sure what its all about really just some words

Clarko employing gages as a foil for his own personality shows huge self awareness

Quite apart from onfield the rebuild of the club structure was a huge part of Clarkos achievements he wasn’t the only one doing this but he was a key part of it
He even was heavily involved in the grooming of Mitch to take over. Even though that ended up a bit clumsily


The big surprise is he doesn’t seem to have done similar at north. Maybe they haven’t let him

 

[SpanishBrowne]

great. now we're a co-captain behind the lions. season done.
guess there's always next year...

 

[burger09]

great. now we're a co-captain behind the lions. season done.
guess there's always next year...

 

[NicG]

Only obstinate dinosaurs could think this is a bad decision (and I was one, until I thought about it logically). Unlike cricket, where the captain is responsible for in-game strategy, an AFL captain is largely ceremonial.

Historically, it's also meant being the conduit between the (non-professional) players and the coach/administration. In the professional realm, there is already a multi-player committee - ie the leadership group - to fulfill those duties.

Nowadays, the real drain on an AFL captain's time is their media commitments and public appearances ... and that's only increasing with each season. Doesn't it make sense to divide that burden between two players?

 

[Yardie]

Only obstinate dinosaurs could think this is a bad decision (and I was one, until I thought about it logically). Unlike cricket, where the captain is responsible for in-game strategy, an AFL captain is largely ceremonial.

Historically, it's also meant being the conduit between the (non-professional) players and the coach/administration. In the professional realm, there is already a multi-player committee - ie the leadership group - to fulfill those duties.

Nowadays, the real drain on an AFL captain's time is their media commitments and public appearances ... and that's only increasing with each season. Doesn't it make sense to divide that burden between two players?

Or you could divide the burden between the leadership group that they have already done in years past. Doesn't that also make sense?

 

[Blackhawk42]