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Coach Grumpy
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LukeParkerno1
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Gilchrist is just another media commentator these days and he again played with the bloke…
The whinge is quite hilarious it’s been quite the popcorn and Twitter and Instagram going off is quite funny
The whinge is quite hilarious it’s been quite the popcorn and Twitter and Instagram going off is quite funny
SackLunch
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Did Cummins lie?
If so, what did he say?
In my view he did the ethical thing by largely ignoring the PR side and instead focusing on what he feels, and presumably his teammates feel, is best for the team.
Around the Wicket
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I find it humorous that some are reporting Langer was coach by title only last 6 months and in fact he was pulled aside pre World Cup and told to pull back and he did, didn't even have a speaking role in team meeting.. talk about trying to discredit a bloke.
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Around the Wicket
Norm Smith Medallist
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Is Trevor Bayliss soft?
What I seen at the Sydney Thunder he wasn't shy haven't cracks at his players when getting interviewed.. so odd choice if he is the players preferred option..
What I seen at the Sydney Thunder he wasn't shy haven't cracks at his players when getting interviewed.. so odd choice if he is the players preferred option..
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Except the players who've spent six months backgrounding Malcolm Conn that the coach hurt their feelings, I guess.
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MORRIS: The brutal $41K revenge act that exposed Justin Langer’s biggest flaw
MORRIS: The brutal $41K revenge act that exposed Justin Langer’s biggest flawwww.foxsports.com.au
TL;DR translation: "I didn't like a training drill, the coach has it in for me"
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There's no indication whatsoever that players demand to be treated 'softly'. The main concern seems be things along the line in the Tom Morris story posted above: Langer changing the training session from light fielding drills to taking a handful of players and putting them through a really serious run through....around the same time that Langer found out he didn't make as money from the doco as the players did, which Langer separately admitted was indeed a sore point for him. I don't think players reasonably expect to be treated like heroes after a poor performance. But I imagine most of us have had bosses, teachers or god forbid parents, who can be a day to day proposition in how they treat you and it's no fun. It's a pretty reasonable expectation in a sport like cricket, where the coach is completely different to the coach in AFL or the manager in soccer, for the coach to not suddenly fly off the handle because people in a union collectively baragained and got more money than someone negotiating by themselves....
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I mean, what would they know on this? This is a dispute essentially to do with the dressing room. The Brad Hoggs and Mark Taylors shoudn't know anything because it's not their experience. Their experience is of a great team mate and great player, but Langer's role was not "Great team mate". It was coach. I imagine if one of the newer players went up to Matthew Hayden one day and said "wow Michael Clarke, what a great guy. Nothing but good to me. can't imagine anyone having a problem with him!", Matthew Hayden would likely have a very different opinion based on his experiences. There's a generation divide here because there's a literal generational divide here. Langer is not a team mate to this current generation. He was the coach and selector.
Or the experts on BF.
The hands of stone
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I think some people are over complicating what's happened here .
The players have won the day . They wanted him gone and thats what happened.
6 month extension/contract means you are effectively removed .
The players have won the day . They wanted him gone and thats what happened.
6 month extension/contract means you are effectively removed .
The hands of stone
Norm Smith Medallist
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They knew he would resign
Poor effort at trying to make it look like they werent moving him on
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The way cricket is being run has scary similarities to rugby union circa 03 world up (theres a good podcast on this) and the absolute debacle than ensued in years.
Clearly cricket has the advantage it is largely a national game played at reasonable numbers from social level to the top class, with reasonable success at an international level but f*ck me at senior management/ player level it just still screams jobs for the boys like we're stuck in the late 80's/ 90's.
They can't keep flogging a india (and sri lanka) series, resting on their laurels with the ashes while the scheduling remains a farce, BBL is borderline club level grade and its just a boys club at the top.
The game is still controlled by too few and if you don't align with them then you're turfed.
Langer was exactly the breath of fresh air needed post the sandpaper scandal and at times a pretty mediocre 5-10 years before (outside of the 2015 world cup final).
Genuinely wish him the best and wouldn't begrudge him going over to England to fix up their mess and take them to the top again.
Clearly cricket has the advantage it is largely a national game played at reasonable numbers from social level to the top class, with reasonable success at an international level but f*ck me at senior management/ player level it just still screams jobs for the boys like we're stuck in the late 80's/ 90's.
They can't keep flogging a india (and sri lanka) series, resting on their laurels with the ashes while the scheduling remains a farce, BBL is borderline club level grade and its just a boys club at the top.
The game is still controlled by too few and if you don't align with them then you're turfed.
Langer was exactly the breath of fresh air needed post the sandpaper scandal and at times a pretty mediocre 5-10 years before (outside of the 2015 world cup final).
Genuinely wish him the best and wouldn't begrudge him going over to England to fix up their mess and take them to the top again.
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The hands of stone
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Agree, it's strange why CA did not simply announce JL's contract was not being renewed past June, surely CA were not concerned Langer may then claim unfair dismissal..?
I've sat on many hiring and firing committee's over the years, while it's perfectly normal to offer a new employee 6 months trial for both parties to ascertain suitability for a longer term commitment/contract, it's just nonsensical at the other end for any employer to offer a 6 month extension pending dismissal - it's frankly a ludicrous proposal, unless you're expecting the employee to respond 'GAGF, see ya later'..?
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Plugger35
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Pretty sure CA knew Langer would reject their offer of a short term extension which allowed them to effectively sack Langer without actually sacking him which would've looked bad after he had just won a T20 World Cup and an Ashes series 4-0. It still looks bad but not as bad as if they actually sacked him.
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A well balanced article by Gideon Haigh I thought.
Behind a paywall so here it it.
Pardon first a personal reminiscence. On 12 November 2012, my good friend Ed Cowan made a maiden Test hundred at the Gabba. That night I celebrated with him and his family.
As we walked into the restaurant, we saw Justin Langer, then Australia’s batting coach, sitting at another table. He gave a warm and friendly wave. By the time we were finished, an evening I’ll always remember, Langer had departed, but we learned that he had quietly paid the bill.
As a journalist, correctly always the outsider, I can scarcely claim to “know” Langer in any meaningful sense.
But I know enough of him from other sources to understand that the action was characteristic. Whatever his coaching acumen and match day temperament, Langer is a master of the nicety, the decent gesture, the caring thought.
Sometimes these become public: when Tim Paine was languishing in Hobart in November, cast aside by Cricket Australia, it was Langer who detoured to offer his comradeship. If sometimes to a fault, Langer is a loyal man, with firmly-held values, intent at all events on doing the right thing.
There was always a chance his tenure as coach would end abruptly. Four years, three formats, Covid, instability at Jolimont, continuity among the players, a new captain, a supine board: these were the preconditions of a mandate for change.
It’s an exaggeration – and a borrowing from football – that Langer “lost the dressing room”. A few were discontented. A few others struggled more than they should have. But it’s mainly that the dressing room was four years older than when Langer was contracted, less dependent, more confident, ready to be differently challenged. You should never wait for failure to change; by that point it can be too late. It also stands to reason that players will have views on the subject – informed views, too, if unavoidably narrow.
Good as the last six months have been, too, the on-field results from Langer’s term deserve no better than a B.
Fifteen Test wins and seven defeats is enhanced by six wins under lights, Australia more or less owning the pink-ball patent.
Australia played too few Tests away in that time, seven (two wins, three defeats), to improve meaningfully their poor overseas record.
In 47 one-day internationals (25 wins, 22 defeats) and 53 T20 internationals (26 wins, 25 defeats), meanwhile, we were at best a mid-table performer.
But considering from where Australia started, stinking from the head, Langer deserves considerable credit. He inherited a badly demoralised team without its two best batters, under an emergency captain who quickly needed replacing in two of the three formats.
Especially early, Langer cloaked players by his own reputation. As a coach who had the confidence of the cricket community, he won patience for a team in flux.
When they won, they also won well, at least unobjectionably and at times even graciously. The one serious disciplinary infraction of the last four years, which cost Paine the captaincy, predated Langer.
Four years ago, some observers had convinced themselves that Australia could win only by behaving like a pack of pricks. The evidence of Langer’s tenure as coach is otherwise. For their enhanced standing, then, Australia’s players may owe Langer more than they are prepared to acknowledge.
The main knock on Langer is that struggled to find the right distance from which to operate – he was either too close, or too far away – and that after four years he should have found that medium.
There’s some foundation to this, and also to the impression he was unhealthily in thrall to his baggy green brotherhood. One suspects that he rather lacked disinterested counsel.
At CA, Langer reported to a friend, high-performance manager Ben Oliver, who reported to someone with limited cricket experience, chief executive Nick Hockley, who reports to a board barely able to govern itself. His closest confidante was probably team manager Gavin Dovey, who may not have been the counterweight he needed.
In that sense, the system has really failed everyone, Langer and players alike. It’s scary to think how Cricket Australia would face a real crisis, given its propensity for turning problems into outright fiascos.
Even Pat Cummins has lost some of his gilt. He looked at the very least compromised, and at worst disingenuous. Generally speaking, when you say you have “huge respect” for a guy and that you “love working” with him, implicit in that is that you want them to continue, yet on the actual question his prevarications were worseningly awkward.
It was common to say last week that the silence otherwise among players was telling. Maybe the silence since has been just as telling. Could not one player have said a word in praise of Langer as he headed off into two weeks’ isolation after seven months on the road? It looks churlish and ungrateful, certainly compared to the grace of Langer’s letter of resignation.
Ricky Ponting has called the whole affair “embarrassing”; it might even be worse. Humiliating is the word that comes to mind. How did a good man end up being treated so heedlessly? If this is how CA treats people in the public gaze, it makes you wonder how it treats people in private. I can vouch for Langer treating them better.
Behind a paywall so here it it.
Langer’s decency transcends his demise
Pardon first a personal reminiscence. On 12 November 2012, my good friend Ed Cowan made a maiden Test hundred at the Gabba. That night I celebrated with him and his family.
As we walked into the restaurant, we saw Justin Langer, then Australia’s batting coach, sitting at another table. He gave a warm and friendly wave. By the time we were finished, an evening I’ll always remember, Langer had departed, but we learned that he had quietly paid the bill.
As a journalist, correctly always the outsider, I can scarcely claim to “know” Langer in any meaningful sense.
But I know enough of him from other sources to understand that the action was characteristic. Whatever his coaching acumen and match day temperament, Langer is a master of the nicety, the decent gesture, the caring thought.
Sometimes these become public: when Tim Paine was languishing in Hobart in November, cast aside by Cricket Australia, it was Langer who detoured to offer his comradeship. If sometimes to a fault, Langer is a loyal man, with firmly-held values, intent at all events on doing the right thing.
There was always a chance his tenure as coach would end abruptly. Four years, three formats, Covid, instability at Jolimont, continuity among the players, a new captain, a supine board: these were the preconditions of a mandate for change.
It’s an exaggeration – and a borrowing from football – that Langer “lost the dressing room”. A few were discontented. A few others struggled more than they should have. But it’s mainly that the dressing room was four years older than when Langer was contracted, less dependent, more confident, ready to be differently challenged. You should never wait for failure to change; by that point it can be too late. It also stands to reason that players will have views on the subject – informed views, too, if unavoidably narrow.
Good as the last six months have been, too, the on-field results from Langer’s term deserve no better than a B.
Fifteen Test wins and seven defeats is enhanced by six wins under lights, Australia more or less owning the pink-ball patent.
Australia played too few Tests away in that time, seven (two wins, three defeats), to improve meaningfully their poor overseas record.
In 47 one-day internationals (25 wins, 22 defeats) and 53 T20 internationals (26 wins, 25 defeats), meanwhile, we were at best a mid-table performer.
But considering from where Australia started, stinking from the head, Langer deserves considerable credit. He inherited a badly demoralised team without its two best batters, under an emergency captain who quickly needed replacing in two of the three formats.
Especially early, Langer cloaked players by his own reputation. As a coach who had the confidence of the cricket community, he won patience for a team in flux.
When they won, they also won well, at least unobjectionably and at times even graciously. The one serious disciplinary infraction of the last four years, which cost Paine the captaincy, predated Langer.
Four years ago, some observers had convinced themselves that Australia could win only by behaving like a pack of pricks. The evidence of Langer’s tenure as coach is otherwise. For their enhanced standing, then, Australia’s players may owe Langer more than they are prepared to acknowledge.
The main knock on Langer is that struggled to find the right distance from which to operate – he was either too close, or too far away – and that after four years he should have found that medium.
There’s some foundation to this, and also to the impression he was unhealthily in thrall to his baggy green brotherhood. One suspects that he rather lacked disinterested counsel.
At CA, Langer reported to a friend, high-performance manager Ben Oliver, who reported to someone with limited cricket experience, chief executive Nick Hockley, who reports to a board barely able to govern itself. His closest confidante was probably team manager Gavin Dovey, who may not have been the counterweight he needed.
In that sense, the system has really failed everyone, Langer and players alike. It’s scary to think how Cricket Australia would face a real crisis, given its propensity for turning problems into outright fiascos.
Even Pat Cummins has lost some of his gilt. He looked at the very least compromised, and at worst disingenuous. Generally speaking, when you say you have “huge respect” for a guy and that you “love working” with him, implicit in that is that you want them to continue, yet on the actual question his prevarications were worseningly awkward.
It was common to say last week that the silence otherwise among players was telling. Maybe the silence since has been just as telling. Could not one player have said a word in praise of Langer as he headed off into two weeks’ isolation after seven months on the road? It looks churlish and ungrateful, certainly compared to the grace of Langer’s letter of resignation.
Ricky Ponting has called the whole affair “embarrassing”; it might even be worse. Humiliating is the word that comes to mind. How did a good man end up being treated so heedlessly? If this is how CA treats people in the public gaze, it makes you wonder how it treats people in private. I can vouch for Langer treating them better.
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Whether the "inmates" need a coach is a different question entirely. The players aren't exactly schoolkids.
SKW doesn't seem to think much of coaches.
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Players did the same thing to Bob Simpson 26 years ago, and other coaches since. Simpson admittedly had been around 10 years but we’d just taken over as test number 1 about a year earlier. Though he never had the Chappells and other former greats inside (I assume partly has he was seen as an establishment figure to the WSC guys).
It’s just that Langer has many more mates in former players in the media and was part of our greatest ever team that people see this differently.