Coach Grumpy

[Big Bryza]

It will be interesting how much access the players give now to Fox and C7 after these ex legends who are major part of the broadcast are laying into them.

If the players like being paid then they'll be doing what they're told.

 

[Big Bryza]

Btw where is SK Warne.

He hasn't said anything yet.

Someone send a search party out for warnie normally he comments on these things within 24 hours.

Give him a few days, he's currently watching his movie on repeat.

 

[Plugger35]

Far out want to get rid of the selectors as well Luke?

How about the captain just picks the side ??? just gets to pick his mates ??

FFS you need coaches at the top level.....Look at this recent ashes series....Green first couple of tests playing to open with his pad because he is afraid to get lbw loses where his off stump is.... Punter picks up on it goes back to the coaches green gets more side on ..the runs start to come

Last test our slip cordon basically on top of each other....did cummins pick that up when he was bowling??? no its the coaches role to see and rectify

Tactics analysing opposition strength and weakness that's what the coaches do as well...

It doesn't say much for Langer and the other coaches that it took a commentator in Ponting to correct Green's batting technique

 

[StingBitten]

I can only speculate like everyone else - a good mate of mine has been the head chef at the WACA for years and in terms of culture he stated that the players absolutely loved and respected him.

He was incredibly hard though and demanded the absolute best from his players in every facet of their lives. For example, under Langer every single player cleaned up after themselves, including washing their own dishes and a range of other things you wouldn't normally see from elite sportsmen. The players were friendly and on first name terms with even the lowliest cleaner.

Effectively, humility and suspending the ego was a massive mantra of Langer. After Langer left and Voges stepped in there was a huge shift and the players dropped all that behaviour - probably not because Voges was a bad bloke but he either didn't prioritise it or his players didn't see it as necessary under a younger coach.

This doesn't feed into any technical knowledge but I think the fact the culture was so driven and positive it speaks volumes about Langer's character. Although WA didn't win a sheffield shield under him he certainly got the absolute best out of players with limited ability... hence so many BBL and one-day cups.

 

[Collars]

 

[Collars]

I can only speculate like everyone else - a good mate of mine has been the head chef at the WACA for years and in terms of culture he stated that the players absolutely loved and respected him.

He was incredibly hard though and demanded the absolute best from his players in every facet of their lives. For example, under Langer every single player cleaned up after themselves, including washing their own dishes and a range of other things you wouldn't normally see from elite sportsmen. The players were friendly and on first name terms with even the lowliest cleaner.

Effectively, humility and suspending the ego was a massive mantra of Langer. After Langer left and Voges stepped in there was a huge shift and the players dropped all that behaviour - probably not because Voges was a bad bloke but he either didn't prioritise it or his players didn't see it as necessary under a younger coach.

This doesn't feed into any technical knowledge but I think the fact the culture was so driven and positive it speaks volumes about Langer's character. Although WA didn't win a sheffield shield under him he certainly got the absolute best out of players with limited ability... hence so many BBL and one-day cups.

Langer's standards were too high for the current bunch of entitled players. How dare he enforce some discipline on our priveleged players!

Inmates are running the asylum.

 

[Blue1980]

Problem is these ex players have basically all being teammates of Langer…they ain’t going to say he’s bad or anything! Just waiting for who is the next WA player to defend Langer…

Cummins will be fine the team will be. We’ll be better going forward anyway.

I saw there was even an editorial in the WA daily paper about langer going, this really feeds into the WA persecution complex obviously.

 

[Blue1980]

and this is thing the public perception atm is that the captain knifed the coach along with the senior playing group to get one of there mates in Bayliss coaching them......and it will only intensify the pressure on Cummins if Bayliss gets picked and if that's the case it could be that the position of Cummins holding the captaincy might become untenable

As much as I do not agree with Langer getting the flick we do have to move forward.....and I hoping a Gillespie gets the nod or a punter...but they might not want to do it due to the selfishness of this current senior group

If bayliss gets the nod there will be a huge divide in Australian cricket and like it or not Cummins imagine will forever be tarnished if not already

If we are doing well on field all will be fine.

Also didn’t same thing happen with Bob Simpson to Geoff Marsh in 1996?

 

[Tyberious Funk]

It takes a bit for Steve Waugh to have a dig, generally stays neutral and rarely gets involved in the public slanging matches. The fact is Justin Langer has done nothing to lose his job but giving the players a gob full on occasions which they probably deserved it.

You can argue that CA treated him badly, and you can make the case that he should have been retained... but claiming that he did NOTHING to lose his job is revisionist history. His coaching style has been subject to criticism for awhile now, and he got formal feedback that he needed to dial down his intensity and improve his player-management skills. Giving Nathan Ellis a bake for wearing a wrist-watch while substitute fielding, or banning Marnus Labuschange from eating toasted sandwiches come off as petty and stupid. But there's been several reports of end-of-series reviews where Langer's coaching style was given substantive criticism... not just from the players but everyone involved with the squads. His current predicament is a almost a certainly a result of his changes being too little, too late, or a bit of both.

 

[Blue1980]

Pathetic work from CA.

Clear as day that the senior members of the playing group (the NSW boys) weren't fans of Langer.

Yeah, he was probably a hard arse but he was exactly what the Aussie team needed when he took over. Sometimes you need to be told what you don't like to hear.

So, what happens next? The aussie side just go back to the old ways, with the players running the show again?

Really disappointing time to be a supporter of Australian cricket.

I think not so much a hard ass, more moody and unpredictable, not really the traits you want in a coach, especially if you spend so much time with them in cricket.

My take is that he was the right choice possibly at the time, but now no longer is for where this current side is at.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I saw there was even an editorial in the WA daily paper about langer going, this really feeds into the WA persecution complex obviously.

Not really - 3 former NSW test captains hold the same view.

 

[Blue1980]

What a sh*t show this has turned into. All because of incredibly poor management of the situation by Cricket Australia. Expect the noise to continue if we cannot get on the winning list on the sub continent. Its hard to believe that this could have been handled any worse.

What’s a pass mark for our 3 tours coming up there? I think it’s the following:

Pakistan - drawn series would be a pass
Sri Lanka - need to win to be a pass
India - at least a test win and be competitive in general (at least like 2017) to be a pass

 

[Richard Cranium]

I'm genuinely surprised that more than just nuffies from Perf (and Matt Hayden) are upset about this. Langer was coach for four years. That's an incredibly long time in sport. The players had obviously grown tired of him and it wasn't until after changes had been made to his role that the side(s) started having success anyway.

What am I missing here?

 

[Blue1980]

Not really - 3 former NSW test captains hold the same view.

It’s not just WA, former players/mates as well.

I think Clarke and Taylor more critical of CA’s handling than anything.

 

[Sttew]

Problem is these ex players have basically all being teammates of Langer…they ain’t going to say he’s bad or anything! Just waiting for who is the next WA player to defend Langer…

Cummins will be fine the team will be. We’ll be better going forward anyway.

Not so sure. Because of CA's ineptitude, Pat Cummins has effectively been hung out to dry. If there was a serious issue with Langer in 2021 why wasn't it dealt with back then. Its put Cummins in a no win situation. He comes out looking he's knifed Langer.

That aside, what is Cummins' agenda, though? He hasn't explained why he refused to endorse Langer.

 

[Blue1980]

I'm genuinely surprised that more than just nuffies from Perf (and Matt Hayden) are upset about this. Langer was coach for four years. That's an incredibly long time in sport. The players had obviously grown tired of him and it wasn't until after changes had been made to his role that the side(s) started having success anyway.

What am I missing here?

I’m with you, I struggle to see how winning the ashes really factors that far into keeping langer. We did it twice under Lehmann as well, who is now thought of as a dud coach (negligent yes and allowing a culture which got us to where we ended up in South Africa in 2018 but results weren’t overly different under him than langer).

I put it down to all the ex players/mates in the media who can’t think impartially when it comes to Langer. I’m sure he’s a top guy, but seems in a pressure cooker environment of being Australian coach he has got rather moody and unpredictable which hasn’t made an ideal working environment. If anything he cares too much.

 

[Sttew]

I'm genuinely surprised that more than just nuffies from Perf (and Matt Hayden) are upset about this. Langer was coach for four years. That's an incredibly long time in sport. The players had obviously grown tired of him and it wasn't until after changes had been made to his role that the side(s) started having success anyway.

What am I missing here?

May 2018, so not quite 4 years.

What you are missing here is that England sacked its coach because they performed poorly. Langer coached an Australian team that effectively just won two championships - the T20 and Ashes, and CA has 'sacked' him. It's just a very shabby look. As Hayden said (I think it was who said this), the next coach will need to be looking over his shoulder because if the players don't like him or what he does, then he will be history

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Not so sure. Because of CA's ineptitude, Pat Cummins has effectively been hung out to dry. If there was a serious issue with Langer in 2021 why wasn't it dealt with back then. Its put Cummins in a no win situation. He comes out looking he's knifed Langer.

That aside, what is Cummins' agenda, though? He hasn't explained why he refused to endorse Langer.

He didn’t have to it’s not his job to be lovey dovey with the coach. His statements were fine, CA can deal with it.

I agree he should have been booted after that shocking Indian series.

 

[kozi]

Pat needs another big attention diverting scandal to happen stat

 

[Jamurp]

Warnie been reading this thread? Again with the 'woke' stuff.

 

[JackOutback]

I saw there was even an editorial in the WA daily paper about langer going, this really feeds into the WA persecution complex obviously.

Trying to narrow this down to just bitter WA fans is reductive, Gideon Haigh and Robert Craddock both had articles yesterday highly critical of the decision, Mark Taylor barely played with Langer, according to one news eastern states based site's (unscientific) poll, more than 90 per cent are backing Langer and not CA. If CA made the right call, they absolutely have not been able to communicate that to just about anyone. Also, that's a big 'if'.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

It’s not just WA, former players/mates as well.

I think Clarke and Taylor more critical of CA’s handling than anything.

That's what most WA are pissed off with as well.

If they'd sacked him - then so be it - shit decision - but at least they would have made one.

Where they landed was incredibly disrespectful

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I can't imagine Clarke and Langer being besties - two very different individuals.

Euqlly Taylor wouldn't have played a lot of cricket with him. Waugh and ponting yes

They still won’t say a bad word. And the laugh at Mitch Johnson doing it after him being a main reason why Arthur was punted

 

[Tugga27]

I'm genuinely surprised that more than just nuffies from Perf (and Matt Hayden) are upset about this. Langer was coach for four years. That's an incredibly long time in sport. The players had obviously grown tired of him and it wasn't until after changes had been made to his role that the side(s) started having success anyway.

What am I missing here?

What you're missing Richard, is that most people, like myself, are not upset that he's been replaced, it's the way it was handled.

CA have come out of this looking like dicks.

 

[Costanza_]

It's being framed as "Langer is an old-school, tough-as-nails, but fair" coach and the "whinging, zoomer, cry baby players" can't handle a bit of tough love.

Maybe that's the case.

But maybe there is more going on that is being reported. The same narrative might originally have been written about something like the Crows 'Collective Minds' camp until the details started to come out.

Maybe Langer belted someone. Maybe Langer spits and curses and generally makes players feel like shit. Maybe he took a grog-bog in someone's kit bag.

I feel like there is alot going unsaid. Hopefully we learn more, but until otherwise I'm not going to hang either Langer or Cummins.