Coach Under Most Pressure

[nick_savo]

I rekon Dean Laidly is under the most pressure of all those coaches.
Pagen is just expected to finish last again so there is no pressure there.
Thompson would be the other one but i have a little feeling the cats might bounce back a bit this year and just sneak into the 8 and if not the will just miss out finishing 9th.

 

[Jeebus]

So this was just another excuse to have a shot at the Tigers/Wallace.

Wallace has a 5 year contract(3 years remaining), Clarkson just signed a 2 year deal & from memory Matthews and most of the others(Sheedy, Thompson, Laidley, Pagan) are in the last year of contracts.

Unless the Tigers/Hawks finished bottom with 2 wins I could not see a reason why Wallace/Clarkson would really be under pressure. Sure the boards would want to know why but the clubs are not going to cut either coach in the middle of rebuilding their lists, otherwise the Hawks would have done so last year when Clarkson was up for renewal.

Malcolm blight was sacked when he was 'rebuilding' too.

Mathews job is much safer than Clarkson or Wallace.
You are a true idiot for placing him in the poll.

 

[finrod]

I rekon Dean Laidly is under the most pressure of all those coaches.
Pagen is just expected to finish last again so there is no pressure there.
Thompson would be the other one but i have a little feeling the cats might bounce back a bit this year and just sneak into the 8 and if not the will just miss out finishing 9th.

Wouldn't be surprised...

 

[Jimthegreat]

That is a bit harsh on Denis IMO. True, the statistics don't lie, and he's had a shocking win-loss record at Carlton, but just look at what he's had to work with. IIRC he arrived at the club just when the AFL stung you with all those draft penalties, etc, and he had to basically build a team by trading for a lot of hacks. In that regard to do what he did in 2003 or 2004 and win 10 games for the season was a marvellous effort.

I think Denis's problem is that he came from such a successful stint at the Kangaroos that people just assumed that he'd achieve the same thing at Carlton. I wonder if it was an untried coach who took over when Pagan did with the same list and achieved the same win/loss ratio whether or not the same number of knives would be trying to find their way into his back.

Not hard at all. He's been one of the poorest to coach this club. Even in the draft penalty years we still got Simmo, Fisher, Walker and Stevens. That would've been a winner for most clubs. We have 4 AA's in our team (Fev, Whitnall, Lappin & Kouta, who's near the end admittedly), including the Coleman Medalist as well as a player who's played 2 GF's for the Pies (Scotland), another who would've played in a Premiership in 2004 (Stevens), As well as Walker, Simmo, Murphy, Houlihan, Thornton (must have ok to go to such lengths to keep him), Waite, Fisher, French (who I admit is more solid than great but certainly pretty reasonable) as well as up and coming players such as Blackwell, Bentick, Betts and O'hailpain (he come on late in the season admittedly). While it's not a premiership standard team by any means, if you can't get more than 7 wins in 2 years out of that lot you are really struggling.

Then there's the 15 x 90 point defeats during his tenure, including quite a few record 100+ defeats, a ratio of less than 1 in 4 games of 10 goal+ defeats, a 23% winning record (21 wins from 88 matches, and that becomes 16% if you take away the 10 wins of 2004.....11 from 66). Not to mention back to back spoons. That's an indictment given the above players on the list. The list excuse is bullsh1t, a myth. No man management skills, completely lost on a game plan, lost 2 different groups of players (pre-post 2004). He's been a disaster for our club. What he did in the 90's is irrelevant to us now. Sadly as time has passed him right by.

When your in a situation where the Board doesn't want you, the players can't stand you and ex-players are willing to dip into their own pockets to get rid of you I think it tells you something. We're 7 wins worse off than 2004 but currently we have alot better list. I don't think an untried coach wouldn't have to had worked too hard to beat that, and they would've come alot cheaper. At worst they couldn't have done worse.

The link below sums it up. And Cory's not the only ex-players to make such comments.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14172


So, no, I'm not being harsh. What do you think? Do you think they are playing to their potential with the lack of effort, will and committment displayed out there? Doesn't seem so to me.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Wallace, Clarkson should be in this poll waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of leigh mathews.

Mathews is one of the best coaches ever.
Wallace and Clarkson have achieved nothing. Considering Wallace has been coaching for many years it shows your bias not to place him in the poll because you know he might win and it would embarrass you and your pathetic little club.

Wallace was terrific with what he had at the Bulldogs. Finalists most years, PF twice, and is certainly improving the Tigers. That'll take a little time but they certainly have some respect. He ability to think outside the square is terrific.

 

[winty]

Not hard at all. He's been one of the poorest to coach this club. Even in the draft penalty years we still got Simmo, Fisher, Walker and Stevens. That would've been a winner for most clubs. We have 4 AA's in our team (Fev, Whitnall, Lappin & Kouta, who's near the end admittedly), including the Coleman Medalist as well as a player who's played 2 GF's for the Pies (Scotland), another who would've played in a Premiership in 2004 (Stevens), As well as Walker, Simmo, Murphy, Houlihan, Thornton (must have ok to go to such lengths to keep him), Waite, Fisher, French (who I admit is more solid than great but certainly pretty reasonable) as well as up and coming players such as Blackwell, Bentick, Betts and O'hailpain (he come on late in the season admittedly). While it's not a premiership standard team by any means, if you can't get more than 7 wins in 2 years out of that lot you are really struggling.

Then there's the 15 x 90 point defeats during his tenure, including quite a few record 100+ defeats, a ratio of less than 1 in 4 games of 10 goal+ defeats, a 23% winning record (21 wins from 88 matches, and that becomes 16% if you take away the 10 wins of 2004.....11 from 66). Not to mention back to back spoons. That's an indictment given the above players on the list. The list excuse is bullsh1t, a myth. No man management skills, completely lost on a game plan, lost 2 different groups of players (pre-post 2004). He's been a disaster for our club. What he did in the 90's is irrelevant to us now. Sadly as time has passed him right by.

When your in a situation where the Board doesn't want you, the players can't stand you and ex-players are willing to dip into their own pockets to get rid of you I think it tells you something. We're 7 wins worse off than 2004 but currently we have alot better list. I don't think an untried coach wouldn't have to had worked too hard to beat that, and they would've come alot cheaper. At worst they couldn't have done worse.

The link below sums it up. And Cory's not the only ex-players to make such comments.

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14172


So, no, I'm not being harsh. What do you think? Do you think they are playing to their potential with the lack of effort, will and committment displayed out there? Doesn't seem so to me.

I was making an observation from the outside looking in, but after reading that, I'm gonna make a 180 and agree with you. The sooner he's out the better.

 

[Jimthegreat]

I was making an observation from the outside looking in, but after reading that, I'm gonna make a 180 and agree with you. The sooner he's out the better.

That's fair enough. It's difficult. We look at 15 clubs from the outside looking in. Other than our own club it's sometimes hard to know the situation of others.

Cheers

 

[9th Placed Finish]

Malcolm blight was sacked when he was 'rebuilding' too.

Mathews job is much safer than Clarkson or Wallace.
You are a true idiot for placing him in the poll.

So you think that coaches like Matthews should never be held accountable for a teams poor performances. Mattews is a great coach no question but what makes him any safer than any other coach in the league. Yes I am aware he won 3 straight flags and went to 4 successive GF's but 3 years later the Lions are a shadow of the team that was so dominant. As I have said repeatedly I am not saying the coaches would get sacked just asking which of them would be under the most pressure considering that 5 of them are entering the final year of their deals. Matthews in all likelihood will be given another 3 years but to say he would not have pressure on him to show improvement on the last 2 years is stupid. The game is about results and if Matthews did not get them then regardless how great the man is under some pressure this year.

 

[Jeebus]

So you think that coaches like Matthews should never be held accountable for a teams poor performances. Mattews is a great coach no question but what makes him any safer than any other coach in the league. Yes I am aware he won 3 straight flags and went to 4 successive GF's but 3 years later the Lions are a shadow of the team that was so dominant. As I have said repeatedly I am not saying the coaches would get sacked just asking which of them would be under the most pressure considering that 5 of them are entering the final year of their deals. Matthews in all likelihood will be given another 3 years but to say he would not have pressure on him to show improvement on the last 2 years is stupid. The game is about results and if Matthews did not get them then regardless how great the man is under some pressure this year.

Clarkson and Wallace are under more pressure than Mathews this year.


As I said.
Very bad choice to put Mathews in there. Why don't you start a poll asking who is under more pressure, mathews or wallace

 

[9th Placed Finish]

Clarkson and Wallace are under more pressure than Mathews this year.


As I said.
Very bad choice to put Mathews in there. Why don't you start a poll asking who is under more pressure, mathews or wallace

Would be a better poll than Judd vs Jesus, clown.

 

[DynamoUltra]

Matthews is under pressure not only because of the on-field failings of his club in 2006, but the perceived lack of support from the players and the off-field troubles. If this continues, why would they keep him?

Here are my rankings for the most under pressure coaches;
1. Pagan - All but gone
2. Laidley - As above
3. Thompson - A poor season and he is gone
4. Sheedy - Will probably retire anyway
5. Daniher - Melbourne will be embracing mediocrity if they keep him and they don't make at least a prelim
6. Matthews - Off-field and on-field troubles need to be rectified
7. Malthouse - In a mini rebuild. Gutsy move to trade Tarrant, meaning they could miss on finals in 2007, but in 2008/9 should be relatively strong contenders.
8. Connolly - Who knows what success is to the Fremantle board?