Opinion Coaching Theory

[Knightmare]

Gaining knowledge in your own game often grows from knowledge in the games of others.

With the NBA my no.2 sport and as the keen researcher I am, I've been doing some research into the great coaches and how they found success beyond simply the playing personnel they had at their disposal.

The two most interesting and there are two lines of thought are those of the greatest ever in Phil Jackson and then the greatest still active coach in Greg Popovich.

Greg Popovich is the Mick Malthouse of NBA coaches. Best known for his intimidating responses to media questions (worth youtubing) but from a pure coaching standpoint he like Malthouse is someone who develops his own coaches as well as any with a number of them then going on to senior coaching jobs.

Phil Jackson on the other hand was a coach who went about it differently and hired assistant coaches with significant coaching experience who he could learn off to in turn improve his coaching. He even learnt his famous offensive scheme "the triangle offense" off assistant Tex Winter and made it into his own trademark.

Now the application to Collingwood's circumstance. We've seen the Popovich/Malthouse method which under previous leadership worked a treat.

Under Nathan though I can't help but lean towards the Phil Jackson route. He's a young coach. As a person having read his book he's someone who is keen to learn and keen to succeed. With those goals in mind logically instead of surrounding himself with young players just out of the game his view towards assistant coaches in my view needs to be to add the most experienced coaches available to him to help him achieve his goals.

With the relatively quick turnover of AFL coaches and how there are so few true veteran coaches it does make if difficult to add genuine coaching experience. Rodney Eade was our veteran coach but now that he's director of football while he's still there and available to help it does leave our coaching team younger than we should be with Nathan as head coach. By AFL standards Scott Burns, Ben Hart, Robert Harvey, Matthew Lappin while all young are not without experience. These guys have been in the coaching ranks for a number of years now and it's not like they retired last year but when I'm talking experience, I'm talking 10+ years of coaching experience. Gary Ayres would be an example of someone with this type of experience. Mark Williams if he could be had from Richmond. These are guys Nathan can learn from and would enhance his coaching education and help him fulfill his coaching potential the most.

My views with most things are that you observe the behaviours of those who are the best in their given field and you integrate those behaviours that fit your personality and situation into your own game. I have no doubt Nathan already does this and going by his recent comments about needing the build up the relational and communication side to his team between players and coaches he's on the right track towards eliminating one of the perceived weaknesses we've seen since he began his tenure as head coach. He's also now got a new kicking coach in which I also really like and I hope as a result the playing group now only improve their set shot goalkicking accuracy but also add further penetration to their kicks and accuracy over distance as Nathan had better than just about anyone. My suggestions may or may not be one of the next things he looks towards in the future as he seems more than content with his current coaching group with seemingly strong relationships with all his assistants but if he can find his Tex Winter who he can learn something new from that will prove gamechanging for him and the team.

 

[Bard]

I'm honestly not sure if you're trying to make a statement about how the club is going about it, or if you're just making general observations about the two sports. Personally though I'd hope we'd be jumping at any experienced ex-AFL coaches to help improve Buckley, because as long as he's willing to learn from others that's the absolute best way for him to improve himself.

 

[Knightmare]

I'm honestly not sure if you're trying to make a statement about how the club is going about it, or if you're just making general observations about the two sports. Personally though I'd hope we'd be jumping at any experienced ex-AFL coaches to help improve Buckley, because as long as he's willing to learn from others that's the absolute best way for him to improve himself.

My point rather than directly recommending something is more to provoke thought.

I'm not going to make any outlandish statement that "Nathan needs an assistant coaching panel of over 65s if he wants any success as senior coach". But none the less having veteran coaches around him is something I feel he would benefit from and it's something in looking at how other successful coaches have done it is the system that going by what I know of Nathan would best work for him.

 

[Bay Pie]

Not to sure about MM's ability to develop coaches KM.

Watters and Neeld were both sacked very early days, Laidley was also sacked after a reasonable run and NM has underperformed under Brad Scott per most reports, so jury is out on him.

Guy McKenna has a very young list and from all reports he gave Bucks little developmental time.

It's a tough comparison you've made as basketball is a 5 man game and most teams may use only 8 players each game. Phil Jackson was undoubtedly a gun coach but during his time with the Bulls and Lakers he had 40% ( Jordan/Pippen & Bryant/O'Neal ) of his main players as hall of famers, even greatest of all-timers. When you have that much top end talent, you have been set for success with a few tweaks here and there.

I think Rocket may turn out to be a very good appointment for Bucks' development.

 

[Quicky]

I think more broadly you just go for the best bloke for the job. Old, young or whatever. Experienced coaches do have attractive qualities that could be useful however. Experience is important. I am working in an industry that has just been through a massive round of retrenchments. The first to leave were the experienced ones closer to retirement. You do see a distinct difference when you lose all that intellectual property.

Buckley could certainly benefit from more experience around him. I don't think that necessarily requires a wholesale change in the coaching staff. But you would think bringing in someone like Ayres would be a natural target. I wouldn't mind seeing Balme back at the Pies either, even if not in a coaching role.

 

[forwardflanker]

Martin Flanigan wrote a good article about Sir Alex Ferguson in todays Age. The most interest piece was this quote about SAF's dressing room authority: "Power he says is something people throw around for ego purposes. Control is the fine art of getting your own way". I think MM's coaching followed the SAF formula very closely and he is a true authoritarian in the way he goes about it. From the outside it seems Buckley's philosophy is a lot less authoritarian and wants the direction to be something that the players and coaches are all in symphony with. Its probably simpler to implement the MM philosophy but I think there are some pretty compelling arguments that the more inclusive style that Buckley's trying to use can produce pretty extraordinary results if done properly. I also think that whilst it's difficult and time consuming to build the team culture that Buckley wants, its something that will be equally difficult to tear down when they do get there.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/what-made-alex-ferguson-great-20140207-326xs.html

 

[Bard]

I wouldn't say it's simpler to implement the SAF/MM philosophy, however it solely relies on the person at the top. That person has to be 100% capable, and if they are, it can be very effective. Otherwise the structure will topple and fall, starting with the top, Neeld seems to be a good example as it sounded like he had a similar approach.

 

[HappyRed]

I really don't get the feel that MM is the kinda guy who loves to hand on information, he seems more like a hardass who wants to keep his knowledge to himself in order to protect his job, especially in this current generation where new coaches are starting to take they shot at Seniority.

 

[Mental Magpie]

We've got eade.

 

[Quicky]

We've got eade.

Is this enough?

 

[mike123]

Gaining knowledge in your own game often grows from knowledge in the games of others.
My views with most things are that you observe the behaviours of those who are the best in their given field and you integrate those behaviours that fit your personality and situation into your own game. I have no doubt Nathan already does this and going by his recent comments about needing the build up the relational and communication side to his team between players and coaches he's on the right track towards eliminating one of the perceived weaknesses we've seen since he began his tenure as head coach. He's also now got a new kicking coach in which I also really like and I hope as a result the playing group now only improve their set shot goalkicking accuracy but also add further penetration to their kicks and accuracy over distance as Nathan had better than just about anyone. My suggestions may or may not be one of the next things he looks towards in the future as he seems more than content with his current coaching group with seemingly strong relationships with all his assistants but if he can find his Tex Winter who he can learn something new from that will prove gamechanging for him and the team.

I hope our kicking skills can replicate Hawthorns.

 

[Mental Magpie]

Is this enough?

You can never have enough, or even too much experience Quicky.

 

[Big Bryza]

Mick Malthouse can go eat a bag of dicks as far as I'm concerned.

 

[HappyRed]

Mick Malthouse can go eat a bag of dicks as far as I'm concerned.

You have brought a smile to my lips.. Your a saint.

 

[the distributer]

Gaining knowledge in your own game often grows from knowledge in the games of others.

With the NBA my no.2 sport and as the keen researcher I am, I've been doing some research into the great coaches and how they found success beyond simply the playing personnel they had at their disposal.

The two most interesting and there are two lines of thought are those of the greatest ever in Phil Jackson and then the greatest still active coach in Greg Popovich.

Greg Popovich is the Mick Malthouse of NBA coaches. Best known for his intimidating responses to media questions (worth youtubing) but from a pure coaching standpoint he like Malthouse is someone who develops his own coaches as well as any with a number of them then going on to senior coaching jobs.

Phil Jackson on the other hand was a coach who went about it differently and hired assistant coaches with significant coaching experience who he could learn off to in turn improve his coaching. He even learnt his famous offensive scheme "the triangle offense" off assistant Tex Winter and made it into his own trademark.

Now the application to Collingwood's circumstance. We've seen the Popovich/Malthouse method which under previous leadership worked a treat.

Under Nathan though I can't help but lean towards the Phil Jackson route. He's a young coach. As a person having read his book he's someone who is keen to learn and keen to succeed. With those goals in mind logically instead of surrounding himself with young players just out of the game his view towards assistant coaches in my view needs to be to add the most experienced coaches available to him to help him achieve his goals.

With the relatively quick turnover of AFL coaches and how there are so few true veteran coaches it does make if difficult to add genuine coaching experience. Rodney Eade was our veteran coach but now that he's director of football while he's still there and available to help it does leave our coaching team younger than we should be with Nathan as head coach. By AFL standards Scott Burns, Ben Hart, Robert Harvey, Matthew Lappin while all young are not without experience. These guys have been in the coaching ranks for a number of years now and it's not like they retired last year but when I'm talking experience, I'm talking 10+ years of coaching experience. Gary Ayres would be an example of someone with this type of experience. Mark Williams if he could be had from Richmond. These are guys Nathan can learn from and would enhance his coaching education and help him fulfill his coaching potential the most.

My views with most things are that you observe the behaviours of those who are the best in their given field and you integrate those behaviours that fit your personality and situation into your own game. I have no doubt Nathan already does this and going by his recent comments about needing the build up the relational and communication side to his team between players and coaches he's on the right track towards eliminating one of the perceived weaknesses we've seen since he began his tenure as head coach. He's also now got a new kicking coach in which I also really like and I hope as a result the playing group now only improve their set shot goalkicking accuracy but also add further penetration to their kicks and accuracy over distance as Nathan had better than just about anyone. My suggestions may or may not be one of the next things he looks towards in the future as he seems more than content with his current coaching group with seemingly strong relationships with all his assistants but if he can find his Tex Winter who he can learn something new from that will prove gamechanging for him and the team.

You need the tools to successfully devise a game plan, thing is everyone has different tools though, the trick is developing a game plan that suits your list, there no future in coping what the reigning premiers did IMO.

 

[the distributer]

I think more broadly you just go for the best bloke for the job. Old, young or whatever. Experienced coaches do have attractive qualities that could be useful however. Experience is important. I am working in an industry that has just been through a massive round of retrenchments. The first to leave were the experienced ones closer to retirement. You do see a distinct difference when you lose all that intellectual property.

Buckley could certainly benefit from more experience around him. I don't think that necessarily requires a wholesale change in the coaching staff. But you would think bringing in someone like Ayres would be a natural target. I wouldn't mind seeing Balme back at the Pies either, even if not in a coaching role.

I don't know how many legitimate AFL game plans are out there ATM, but mate, all those plans come a distant second to chemistry, chemistry makes game plans, a great game plan without it is worthless, but an inferior can still succeed with it.

Give me a guy who can gel a group ahead of a master tactician.

 

[the distributer]

How about the GC game, we had a top 4 spot on the line, Bucks decides not to tag the only player they had that could hurt us, he refused point blank to change that tactic, it cost us the game, what was his excuse? Arghhh we won by 14 goals last time lol, great coaching there, give the man an extension.

Maybe I was wrong calling for Ablett to be tagged prior to the game, maybe everyone was.

 

[Mental Magpie]

How about the GC game, we had a top 4 spot on the line, Bucks decides not to tag the only player they had that could hurt us, he refused point blank to change that tactic, it cost us the game, what was his excuse? Arghhh we won by 14 goals last time lol, great coaching there, give the man an extension.

Maybe I was wrong calling for Ablett to be tagged prior to the game, maybe everyone was.

Check Ablett's stats against us when mm was coaching. If I remember correctly, he's always done really well against us. If we kicked straight, we had it in the bag. We didn't go there to play. We just expected to win. We had many losses like that with mm at the helm.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Coaching can be like a game of paper-rock-scissors. There's no panacea for success. For every Ross Lyon there's a Ken Hinkley. For every Mick Malthouse (experienced coach recruited to Collingwood to deliver a Premiership ... eventually) there's a Chris Scott who delivers one in his first season.

Every coach and every type of coach is going to have their strengths and weaknesses.

An experienced coach is going to have some idea of what works and what doesn't. That can be a positive, because it allows them to be consistent. That can be a negative because it also means that they're less likely to be creative.

An experienced coach will communicate differently with their players to the way a young coach can. An experienced coach will more likely have the gravitas to discipline a player, and that player accepting it. But a younger coach will be likely to be better connected to the playing group because he's got a better idea about what makes them tick.

 

[76woodenspooners]

How about the GC game, we had a top 4 spot on the line, Bucks decides not to tag the only player they had that could hurt us, he refused point blank to change that tactic, it cost us the game, what was his excuse? Arghhh we won by 14 goals last time lol, great coaching there, give the man an extension.

Indeed it was great coaching... he admitted in the press conference afterwards that he stuffed up.

He learns.

We move on.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Gary Ayres would be an example of someone with this type of experience. Mark Williams if he could be had from Richmond. These are guys Nathan can learn from and would enhance his coaching education and help him fulfill his coaching potential the most.

Not every experienced coach is cut out to be a teacher and mentor and wise counsel (as we all know).

No point Buckley having an experienced campaigner who will simply be a constant source of "back in my day ..." lectures. Or to be insecure about their age and being more worried about the state of their own ego than Buckley's.

Good support doesn't necessarily have to come from the ranks of successful coaches, or even AFL coaches. They just need to be somebody who can give them confidence the right guidance. It's not dissimilar to the parent-grandparent dynamic.

 

[speedytiger]

That's where Neil Balme is so good. No ego, no backstabbing just every effort to try and help the team.

 

[Maggie5]

Watching ABC this morning and heard Roy Masters say that he believes that, "a coach gets too much criticism when they lose and too much credit when they win".

I thought how true that comment was. IMO it is players that win games more often than not.

Sure a good coach can develop players to a standard, fitness, have a good game plan but it is the players on the ground that must perform.

I am pretty hopeful this year as I believe that we have gained more than we have lost, we will have our "A" mids all back and fit, an improved forward line and most of our defenders will be back.

 

[Quicky]

I don't know how many legitimate AFL game plans are out there ATM, but mate, all those plans come a distant second to chemistry, chemistry makes game plans, a great game plan without it is worthless, but an inferior can still succeed with it.

Give me a guy who can gel a group ahead of a master tactician.

Is this the reason you don't rate Buckley?

You see him too much as an academic and tactician rather than a bloke that can inspire and bring together a group of players?

 

[Mental Magpie]

I don't know how many legitimate AFL game plans are out there ATM, but mate, all those plans come a distant second to chemistry, chemistry makes game plans, a great game plan without it is worthless, but an inferior can still succeed with it.

Give me a guy who can gel a group ahead of a master tactician.

Chemistry as you put it, can only be achieved when the whole group is aligned, and pulling their own weight. Team first ethos allows chemistry to develop. Ownership and responsibility. All for one, and one for all. When you have favourites, it erodes the fabric of team first ethos. Creates in fighting, jealousy, and resentment. Also gives the favourites the green light to do as they please. Thus creating even more disharmony and resentment.