Collingwood 2010/11: Good team or just a good system?

[wednesdaywarrior]

I've noticed a few (mostly anti-Collingwood) types starting to suggest that our success in 2010 and near success in 2011 was primarily based on the press. Consequently, now that the press is looking to be either less effective or obsolete, our dominance will soon disappear along with it. Do people think that our team still has the ability to win another flag in the near future with different strategy or were we just a one hit wonder with a tactic that surprised the comp?

 

[Ed D]

According to the general non Pies supporter, Collingwood last year had no stars in it's side. Suddenly there are some All Australians, high Brownlow medallist finishes and the general non Pies supporter is complaining that we can't possibly fit all these good players into our side without cheating.

Firstly, who cares about what the opposition supporters think. Secondly, 2011 was more to do with a bad run going into the finals, rather than the tactics used. Thirdly, strategies always need to be adjusted even as the season is going to stay ahead of teams and to prevent them from picking you apart.

No doubt Buckley will tweak and bring in new plays to our game plan, but it's not useless and there was only 1 team that beat us the entire season in 2011.

 

[stui magpie]

We have some very good players and we had a system that they all bought into and knew their role.

There's an old adage that is generally true, "A champion team will beat a team of champions".

That's not to undersell the abilities of the individuals that make up the team, but it's the collective output that is greater than the sum of the individuals. But that is no different to every good team. If they rely on champions they get beat come finals time.

Finally, I really don't give a fat rats clacker what supporters of other teams say about Collingwood, as long as they hate and fear us.

 

[mattys123]

I'm obviously bias, but I firmly believe that we had the standout best 25 -28 (best 22 is an outdated term IMO) over the past 2 seasons, it's just that circumstances stopped us from showing our true potential, especially in 2011 but also in 2010 IMO.

Nathan Brown and Brent MaCaffer basically being unavailable for the 2011 season ensured we never got that best 25-28 on the field, and in the end we still pushed the second best squad for 3 quarters with a broken down, struggling out of form 22.

We could go 25-0 next season, I don't think we will due to changes in the gameplan that may take time to come together, but we could because I still do not doubt we have the most talented best 25-28 of anyone in the AFL.

Think about it, when our so called best 25-28 are lined up next to anyone, especially now that Ling and Ottens have retired for Geelong, we are simply better then anyone else.

I'll back this statement up against any best 28 any other team can put up, but if I was to rank the best 28 (or possibly best 28) players at our club in 2012 we would clearly be better then anyone else, certainly so when it comes to any apparent positional weaknesses.

If we even have a 2% better run with injuries, form and suspensions late in 2012, we will win the flag, or at least be god damn near impossible to beat on that last Saturday in September, of that I am confident.

GO PIES.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

a team maturing, not just luck, we are A GOOD TEAM

...but Dawes is slow

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

The near perfect blend of talent (A1 recruiting - strong list) & game plan (coaching), coupled with the players ability to stick to the game plan consistently (even when struggling on the scoreboard - Adelaide & Essendon games for example). They ran out of steam in 2011 (with too many forced changes 2nd half of season & no real momentum going into September).
Did the intensity level drop off 2011 compared to 2010? It looked as though it did, but that may have just been the opposition going thru or over the press, hence the ball was not trapped in Collingwoods forward 50 as long.
Buckley will tweak the game plan for 2012 (like every other coach will do), only time will tell who gets it right.

 

[Beary17]

Having understood footy since the early 90's it's far and away the best squad we've had in my time, doesn't ensure success but I'm more confident with this group then any others in the last decade or so.

 

[ipswichpies]

If the 2nd half of last season had gone as smooth as the 1st half we would be cup winners again no doubt of this in IMO,Geelong controlled their destiny
brilliantly if we had their run we would be kings now and no self doubt about the club.

If we have a better run with injuries and momentum going into finals in 2012
we will be hard to stop,we saw with all the anti Pie hysteria in the first half of last season just what the other clubs and fans thought about us,they were terrified we were going to overun them and they were right we were.

We should remember the media and opposing fans delight when we some of the players went to Arizona and how they could not contain their glee when N Brown hurt himself again his extra size would have been handy against Hawkins.

So in closing I don,t fear the club going backwards,a little bit of luck and better judgement we can certainly be there again and I am backing the club to get it right,and then we can stick it up the rest of them like they did to us,us and them let,s not forget that.

Go the Pies

 

[ipswichpies]

I've noticed a few (mostly anti-Collingwood) types starting to suggest that our success in 2010 and near success in 2011 was primarily based on the press. Consequently, now that the press is looking to be either less effective or obsolete, our dominance will soon disappear along with it. Do people think that our team still has the ability to win another flag in the near future with different strategy or were we just a one hit wonder with a tactic that surprised the comp?

Mate they were terrorfied we were going to win that is what most of the bleating was about,it was extactly the opposite to what they claimed ie our players were not good enough to win again when in reality we proved in the first half of the season we were the team to beat.

We had a bad run of injuries and some stupid suspensions plus 101 other distractions throughout the season and we still came to within 30 minutes
of winning it we run out of legs and that,s it.

This is not revisionism this is the truth and deep down they know this but they won,t admit that,I am really looking forward to next season if they think the Hawks have got something to prove wait until they see us next year.

 

[MarkT2]

If it is all about the game plan and system and the press is dead then why did only 1 team beat us last year? The answer is they were a better side than us. We were better than every other side. Geelong have last a few important players. We've lost Leon Davis.

We were a good team with a good system. Geelong were a better team last year but IMO will slip slightly in 2012. Makes for a tight 2012 at the top of the ladder with possibly Hawthorn and then Carlton & WCE. History says there will be a surprise improver as well.

We have a good enough list and a tight enough game plan and discipline. It will be good enough if we have luck and it won't if we don't.

 

[Hva sher a]

My feeling is that 2010 was about the system but 2011 was more about the team. We seemed to win on bouts of individual/team brilliance (eg last qtr Adelaide, Hawthorn prelim) rather than systematically dismantling sides as per 2010.

This actually gives me more encouragement as we managed to reach and almost win the GF through sheer heart and brilliance. Apart from injuries this has made me even more confident about next year and my only fear is Hawthorn

 

[handy point]

We're a very good team still yet to peak.

Honestly, a premiership comes a fair bit down to injuries and how you manage them.

 

[Karate Feel]

Makes me laugh when i here people claim that it's just Collingwoods system is the reason why we have dominated the last 2 years not giving any credit to the players we have assembled over the years.Here is a list of players.Included national draft pick and other mentions of note.

Didak- #3 (all Aust 2006,2010)
Ball- #2 (All aust 2005)
Reid-#8 (All Aust 2011)
N.Brown- #10
Tarrant- #8 (All aust 2003)
Pendlebury- #5 (All Aust 2010/2011,Norm Smith 2010)
Thomas- #2 (All Aust 2011)
Sidebottom- #11
Cloke- F/S (All Aust 2011)
L.Brown- #5
Swan- Brownlow medallist 2011
L.Davis- 2 time All Aust 2009,2011

Team of 'tryers' or team packed with talent?
This is the most talented Pies side i can remember.

 

[Knightmare]

The list is packed with quality. Young quality still developing and a strong core group who will keep us competitive for a long time.

Our coaching group has taken a step back and probably is my primarily concern with Malthouse now gone then Neeld and Watters both moving onto senior coaching jobs it's a completely new and much less experienced coaching group.

I'm not convinced we will win the premership next year. But I'm confident that we will be thereabouts over the next probably 2,3 maybe 4 years and with good form and a good run of injuries coming into September we might just win another premiership with this group.

 

[ipswichpies]

The list is packed with quality. Young quality still developing and a strong core group who will keep us competitive for a long time.

Our coaching group has taken a step back and probably is my primarily concern with Malthouse now gone then Neeld and Watters both moving onto senior coaching jobs it's a completely new and much less experienced coaching group.

I'm not convinced we will win the premership next year. But I'm confident that we will be thereabouts over the next probably 2,3 maybe 4 years and with good form and a good run of injuries coming into September we might just win another premiership with this group.

I am not sure our coaching next year will be worse than last season I will admit it may not be as good as 2010 but neither was last season,s effort if we are honest,half the coaching panel had their mind on other things.

I think and hope our coaches are all on the same page and committed to the future for various reasons I was not sure about last year and this is why I think the coaching may be be a bit more positive than last season but not as good as 2010.

With the personel on the field and coming through we should be a chance for a few yrs yet.

 

[HeavyPop]

Tactics don't win you premierships. Our tactics probably got us better finishes in 2007 and 2008 than maybe we deserved, but you need quality to win a competition at a professional level.

I actually thought 2011 would be the year where we would finally win the flag, not 2010.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Playing personnel is 100 times more important than game plan.

If you have the right list you can build a game plan designed to capitalise on their abilities.

If you have the wrong list there is no game plan that can save you.

 

[Ed D]

Tactics don't win you premierships. Our tactics probably got us better finishes in 2007 and 2008 than maybe we deserved, but you need quality to win a competition at a professional level.

I actually thought 2011 would be the year where we would finally win the flag, not 2010.

I don't know about that. Quite a few teams with lesser players have won the premiership. There are a lot of different factors that go into winning a premiership, players in form with good fitness helps, having a good spread of players, the right structures, a bit of luck, and also tactics help.

I get where you're going, grand finals are a lot more one on one and desperation football than regular games, but tactics still play their part, and more importantly team mates playing together and knowing what each other is going to do is very important which all comes down to playing a certain way together.

 

[theyear2012]

I think 2011 is a season we had to have sure it hurt when we lost the final
but i think its like the monkey is off the back ,and we have nothing to prove again.

at our best no one can beat us im sure every supporter know`s that ,so its up to Collingwood prove there the best .

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

I like these fighting words. I've watched the Pies since '77 and I actually reckon this is the best group I've seen. But I think we still need to work out & develop the 'other 8' players - the 23-30. I'm excited about the potential in some of these guys but its still only potential. As well as our niggles to best 22 this year I thought injuries to the likes of Thomas and Sinclair reduced the quality and balance in the VFL. It's great to have a young 'smokey' come through to the seniors a'la Blair in 2010, Cristensen (for the Cats) in 2011 - gives an added spark to the side and catches the opposition out. Hoping for some of those young boys to step up this year.

 

[Lockyer24]

I think we are an incredibly even team.

We have a good 10 or so players who are B+ or above.

The Press wasn't even used massively in 2011 yet we beat all teams except one. Unfortunately, it was one of the teams we designed the press to beat. (St Kilda it worked a treat on as they flooded themselves to death. Geelong on the other hand ceased setting up from the back by hand, and started kicking long and adapting. C Scott is obviously a decent tactitian)