Collingwood continuing errors.

[61magpie]

Ladies and Gents - I frequent the forums irregularly and will be the first to admit my knowledge of the game is not up there with the best but I do have some questions to ask re our current game plan?

1 - why do we continue to not mark up - in general around the ground but in particular in the back line - usually this is where small forwards carve us up - how can so many men from the opposition be loose?

2 - ruck effort - I understand our guys are still learning and performance is visibly improving week on week but unlike others we don't tap often enough to advantage? It is one thing to get to the ball first but no good if it isn't going to our guys - similarly teams like Hawthorn appear to always have that man one pace outside the contest who invariably gets the loose ball???

3 - of late we seem to have gone back to the old failure of playing wide and close to the boundary - how many turnovers did we have last week because of bad kicking and being so close to the boundary it goes out on the full???

I am really pleased with the team in general as I feel they are playing above expectations for this year - however when we play there it is a disappointment to be going backwards and especially when arguably some of the drop in performance appears to be basic mistakes?

For your thoughts and comments of course.

cheers

rossvickicampbell

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Bad kicking in the corridor would be even worse than out on the boundary.

Bad kicking is bad kicking. Boundary or corridor won't change that.

 

[Wooljay]

1. Poor transition. We don't capitalise on our time in forward half and get burnt on the transition.

2. Good point, our stoppage setup is a bit weak seemingly. Young midfield imo. Crisp, De Goey, Adams being our main clearance kids makes it hard.

3. Not sure we are that much, we just get stuck wide playing out of defense - which last week was 75% of the match seemingly. We at decent corridor footy when we can but teams protect the shit outta the corridor. We definitely aren't Malthouse level boundary huggers.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Opened this thread fully expecting a rant at the club, coach, boot studder etc. Not someone on BF saying they don't know something and asking in well written English for suggestions.

I think the loose man thing is due to our press tactic. All our players press up to pressure the ball carrier or anyone they think the ball carrier could get the ball to. This means they tend to clump up in one part of the field. If despite this pressure, the opposition manage to get a couple of quick ball movements forward, they get past our press and then our guys are chasing tail. Its a calculated risk that often (usually?) works, but looks awful when it doesn't.

That combined with that tactic making us vulnerable if we turnover the ball. As we go forward, all the backs leave their men and roll up to make it hard for the opposition to get the ball out of our 50. But if the kick before it goes into the 50 is crap and the opposition intercepts, suddenly all our defenders are going the wrong way and have to reacquire their opponents. Good teams cuy to pieces with that gap.

 

[PepperFace]

Good thread. Some basics of football are not being adhered to. Also.....we have been getting smashed out of the middle of late. We need to learn how to nullify the opposition while big witttys continues to develop his craft

 

[jmac70]

Too many words in this thread.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Too many words in this thread.

Here, just look at this instead then:

 

[jmac70]

Here, just look at this instead then:

Love a bit of Spot action.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Here, just look at this instead then:

 

[Somebody]

........................I think the loose man thing is due to our press tactic. All our players press up to pressure the ball carrier or anyone they think the ball carrier could get the ball to. This means they tend to clump up in one part of the field. If despite this pressure, the opposition manage to get a couple of quick ball movements forward, they get past our press and then our guys are chasing tail. Its a calculated risk that often (usually?) works, but looks awful when it doesn't.

That combined with that tactic making us vulnerable if we turnover the ball. As we go forward, all the backs leave their men and roll up to make it hard for the opposition to get the ball out of our 50. But if the kick before it goes into the 50 is crap and the opposition intercepts, suddenly all our defenders are going the wrong way and have to reacquire their opponents. Good teams cuy to pieces with that gap.

Yes it does seem to happen quite a lot but at the end of the day, the scores against have been low so defensively we've been doing well.
Against WC, they have just as tight a defensive zone or more so, yet when we broke out the back of them they seemed to still have our forwards all manned up and under pressure, no idea how they manage that it's almost like magic (not leon davis although he'd come in handy).

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

1 - why do we continue to not mark up - in general around the ground but in particular in the back line - usually this is where small forwards carve us up - how can so many men from the opposition be loose?

Ask Baltimore Jack he reckons he knows. Apparently defenders don't have to worry about a man anymore. Giving your man 15 metres of space is the new black.

 

[Markfs]

I find that when I kick the ball and it fails to reach the target, it is because of a lack of skills or concentration. I genuinely want to succeed but I fail because of either of those factors. Coaching might help either factor, but not in the short term. There are some things that a coach would never be able to help me with because I lack talent. These general processes are common to most humans in life. While I have known people who choose to deliberately fail in a task, most people try to succeed. Some people try harder than others. That's another common theme. Coaches can assist people to try harder, personality types remains a key part of the deal. I hope this has been of assistance..

 

[BEEG]

 

[THATSGOLD]

I thought Buckley failed to come up with a second game plan when Cloke went off v The West Coast. Playing the boundaries. Our current game style suits Cloke as a forward. If we don't change it will get smacked by the dogs.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

1 - because our defensive game plan focuses on pressuring the ball carrier. It relies on players leaving their man to get 2-3 around the ball, with the expectation that another defender will rotate onto your man. 90% of the time we have down that really well and been able to shut down teams... Probably is, the times we are off (even if its just one player being slow on a rotation) it leaves our backline very exposed.
The question is - do we persist with a gameplan that looks like it should be very good going forward, or do we try to go back to a traditional man-man defence?

2 - ruck - exactly because they are still young. Witts in particularly has been improving at getting the HO to one of our mids but this is an area that takes a lot of time. The teams that have outplayed us in the ruck have pretty experienced rucks... And remember even NicNat took a lot of time to get his hitouts into the right spots, rather than just thumping them forward.

3 - probably a combination of our pressing gameplan (generally results in the opposition having more guys behind the ball, so we dont have an open forward line) and resulting defensive pressure from the opposition, and our foot skills still needing improvement (making the corridor risky against teams that can damage us on a turnover)

Overall i agree with your assessment but think it generally comes down to the quality of opposition that wr have come against recently and a young group still developing... But not sure how much of a consolation that will be if we dont turn it around soon.

 

[Markfs]

you've heard of Clarko's cluster? You've heard of the Weagles Web?..... what is the name of our zone?????????? Buckley's barricade? Frosty's chill zone? Absolute nothing! No wonder our game plan sucks. Isnt it time for Buckley to tell the world the name of his zone so that we can take another step to winning a premiership?

 

[Bucksboys]

Take your medicine

 

[cleomenes]

The nature of football these days is that congestion allows the less talented sides (us) to compete with those with more ability on the field. All teams are using the congested defence, and all are vulnerable to quick breaks. From scores against, we are defending better than most. Probably as a result, we are not as well set up to attack. Our inability to use some of our players in chains of passes across the field or to kick into the middle, because they can't pass accurately is a huge problem for attacking moves. Three of our regular defenders cannot be relied upon to pass the ball. Of these, only Frost is improving. The other two are there because they almost always beat their man. Maynard and Scharenberg should improve this, but Marsh will not.
Tactically we are right up there. We are short on skills at present, but they are improving. The rucks are better weekly.
When (if) the AFL addresses the congestion of the game, we will have a whole new set of tactics to create. Hopefully, the increasing skills of our list will come at just the right time.

 

[dansa]

Ladies and Gents - I frequent the forums irregularly and will be the first to admit my knowledge of the game is not up there with the best but I do have some questions to ask re our current game plan?

1 - why do we continue to not mark up - in general around the ground but in particular in the back line - usually this is where small forwards carve us up - how can so many men from the opposition be loose?

Man-up defense is too difficult in todays footy
-Ball movement so quick and accurate makes defending one-on-one very difficult.
-With constant rotations and the fact that almost every player is now a midfielder it is almost impossible to know at an point who your direct opponent is.
-Even defenders now run forward when we have possession, if there is a quick turnover players don't have time to find their opponent.

Team defense or Zonal defense is the best way to set up a defensive structure instantly.

Fill space, Create pressure and be responsible for the closest opponent rather than your original direct opponent.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Ladies and Gents - I frequent the forums irregularly and will be the first to admit my knowledge of the game is not up there with the best but I do have some questions to ask re our current game plan?

1 - why do we continue to not mark up - in general around the ground but in particular in the back line - usually this is where small forwards carve us up - how can so many men from the opposition be loose?

2 - ruck effort - I understand our guys are still learning and performance is visibly improving week on week but unlike others we don't tap often enough to advantage? It is one thing to get to the ball first but no good if it isn't going to our guys - similarly teams like Hawthorn appear to always have that man one pace outside the contest who invariably gets the loose ball???

3 - of late we seem to have gone back to the old failure of playing wide and close to the boundary - how many turnovers did we have last week because of bad kicking and being so close to the boundary it goes out on the full???

I am really pleased with the team in general as I feel they are playing above expectations for this year - however when we play there it is a disappointment to be going backwards and especially when arguably some of the drop in performance appears to be basic mistakes?

For your thoughts and comments of course.

cheers

rossvickicampbell

Don't have enough to time deal with in depth but I think most of these grievances can be attributed to the fact that we have played the top 3 sides in the comp the last 4 weeks. As for the Port game we gave them a head start and were disadvantaged by the weather conditions. I wouldn't be too worried tbh. Rather than focussing on the 8, our aim for the rest of the season should be to scratch up wins against a few teams in a similar position to us on the ladder starting with Footscray tomorrow.