List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[Apex36]

It looks nice on paper but I reckon that's a long shot. Think you have over valued Witts and doubt Brisbane will want Frost. Also putting two picks in the 20s together to get a top 10 seems far fetched.

The Bulldogs traded pick 11 for two picks in the 20's only 12 months ago.

 

[RupetFan]

Youre overanalyising my posts and the words I used. Not for the first time.

Martin was treated like a God by some supporters where in the fact he was a good ordinary cult hero. A modern day Rupert Betheras. Popular but not nearly as good (be that raw talent or old fashioned commitment) as some made him out to be.

He was a great VFL player but never translated it to AFL. I get what you're saying.

 

[Apex36]

Youre overanalyising my posts and the words I used. Not for the first time.

I'm not overanalysing anything, you said he didn't make it because he was no good, when he made the choice not to continue. If he was no good the club wouldn't have offered him a contract extension. It's as simple as that.

Martin was treated like a God by some supporters where in the fact he was a good ordinary cult hero. A modern day Rupert Betheras. Popular but not nearly as good (be that raw talent or old fashioned commitment) as some made him out to be.

Pretty much irrelevant to the initial conversation. We'll never know how good he could have been because he chose to pull up stumps early, not because he lacked talent.

 

[orion21]

The Bulldogs traded pick 11 for two picks in the 20's only 12 months ago.

yeah it was pick 11 for Carltons picks 20 and 21 which was very strange.....hope we could pull off something similar to get a late 1st round pick which will help for next year...

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Spoke to a relative of WHE, and they said he's 100% coming home - but wouldn't totally confirm if it was to Collingwood, said he's got 4-5 offers on the table at present.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm not overanalysing anything, you said he didn't make it because he was no good, when he made the choice not to continue. If he was no good the club wouldn't have offered him a contract extension. It's as simple as that.

Pretty much irrelevant to the initial conversation. We'll never know how good he could have been because he chose to pull up stumps early, not because he lacked talent.

All I meant to say was this halibut was good enough for Jehovah.

You must have an interesting life taking one word out of somebodys hastily typed sentence and making an entire irrelevent diversion out of it.

He knocked back what you call a contract extension (another year on the rookie list at 70k or whatever) for more money being a plumber and playing local footy with his mates. Took the short term view. Either wasnt good enough or not prepared to try to be good enough. Same thing.

 

[Smoky]

All of this talk of WHE... what would we have to give up for him?

 

[Kappa]

Martin had talent, he's just the type of guy who would rather dominant lower level sport and have a beer afterwards than be in the elite system... and considering the shitty rookie wages and what's expected of a modern AFL player I can't blame him that much.

 

[soreplums]

According to the north board we are after boomer hope it ain't the case

Might have come from a rumour I started a few days ago

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Martin had talent, he's just the type of guy who would rather dominant lower level sport and have a beer afterwards than be in the elite system... and considering the shitty rookie wages and what's expected of a modern AFL player I can't blame him that much.

Thats why its called a rookie list and thats why players are only allowed to spend a few years on it. Get promoted (and paid better) or get out. He chose the latter and good on him.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Thats why its called a rookie list and thats why players are only allowed to spend a few years on it. Get promoted (and paid better) or get out. He chose the latter and good on him.

Exactly but that has nothing to do with his talent level though.

 

[Aishole]

Martin had talent, he's just the type of guy who would rather dominant lower level sport and have a beer afterwards than be in the elite system... and considering the shitty rookie wages and what's expected of a modern AFL player I can't blame him that much.

You wouldn't take just under 100k to play AFL for a living ? Id take that in a heart beat

 

[jmac70]

The Bulldogs traded pick 11 for two picks in the 20's only 12 months ago.

That surprises me but will take your word on it. Would still seem a fairly rare occurrence though.

 

[Apex36]

You wouldn't take just under 100k to play AFL for a living ? Id take that in a heart beat

He could make the same money as a plumber, + a big chunk of cash playing amateur footy while not having to train and maintain himself to an elite standard.

At the end of the day he didn't have the desire to play at the top level. It's a shame, because he had the talent to make a career of it.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Exactly but that has nothing to do with his talent level though.

I said he wasnt any good. Sick of trying to itemise every word I used and giving it a definition but being good at football is more than raw talent.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

 

[TradeDraft]

Why?

Well there is no one else linked to Mayne and I took the Comment as NO team is allowed to make a Offical Offer to any player.

Also talk is we get both

Think people just want to find anything possible that we not getting what some call Old Duds

 

[jmac70]

I said he wasnt any good. Sick of trying to itemise every word I used and giving it a definition but being good at football is more than raw talent.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

Who you calling big nose?

 

[datwhitey]

I said he wasnt any good. Sick of trying to itemise every word I used and giving it a definition but being good at football is more than raw talent.

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

Of course you are referring to ALL manufacturers of dairy products (aren't you)?

 

[DaVe86]

That surprises me but will take your word on it. Would still seem a fairly rare occurrence though.

They did, which is why it is impossible to get a first rounder out of the dogs this year as part of the Cloke deal. (Eg Cloke + pick 25 for pick 18)

The dogs will face a similar issue that we are which is selecting 2 first rounders over a 4 year period. So they wont back themselves into a corner.

 

[Old Spice]

Martin never got a chance to play in the midfield like Jong has though. We brought him in a couple of times and played him as a forward pocket instead of the inside mid that he was. We have done the same thing to Broomhead & even Kennedy. If you want to develop them as forwards then playing them solely in the midfield in the VFL makes no sense & will not help them develop. You want a player to be a small forward for you in the seniors then they should be playing that role in the VFL so they know exactly what their role is. Our club threw players to the wolves that way.

I'm a supporter of players playing in their preferred position where possible, however most young players are best served by performing wherever they're put to help the team. They do themselves a favour by being multi-dimensional. Wills is a player who is 100% imv a midfielder and I think a good one. It's a 'risk' for him because he's not easy to shuffle elsewhere if senior midfielders around him demand a game.

Martin may have suffered in that way and I'm scratching my head to remember if he got much of a shot there and blew it. Kennedy sounds to me like he thought he deserved a spot but all I saw him serve up was panic kicking when he got a show in the team. I think he was best in the middle but he had to perform okay elsewhere or just be patient. Broomhead has done nothing at all imo to warrant an armchair ride to anywhere.

 

[jmac70]

They did, which is why it is impossible to get a first rounder out of the dogs this year as part of the Cloke deal. (Eg Cloke + pick 25 for pick 18)

The dogs will face a similar issue that we are which is selecting 2 first rounders over a 4 year period. So they wont back themselves into a corner.

Wouldn't we be better off keeping 25 and getting a player or pick for Cloke?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That surprises me but will take your word on it. Would still seem a fairly rare occurrence though.

Trading picks for picks? Happens all the time

In 2013 Collingwood traded 11 31 and 49 to the Eagles to get back 6 and 44. Basically gave away a third rounder and got to move up six spots at the pointy end, with a fourth round switch as icing.

 

[DaVe86]

By trading out the likes of Witts, Frost and Williams. Cloke is gone and Brown is 50/50.

Specific moves would be Witts for one of GC's picks in the 20-30 range. Frost and 25 for 20 if Brisbane are keen.

Package those two together and its worth a top 10 pick to the right suitor.

I think teams are going to be reluctant to trade a first round pick theae days given the requirement to select 2 first rounders over a 4 year period.

With future picks able to be traded, i think its a reasonable idea to bank first round picks so you can pull off a Treloar type deal if the right player comes along.

I think your scenario makes sense, i just think it is going to be very difficult finding a side willing to make the deal...unless someone like GWS or Gold Coast need points for academy players. Im not sure of their points scenario this year, but as i understand they are both good for draft picks. Maybe Gold Coast will be willing to give a few up for the right deal given theu have so many first rounders.

 

[Dynamics]

You wouldn't take just under 100k to play AFL for a living ? Id take that in a heart beat

I wouldn't.

I'd pay good money to be able to train and play with our VFL team, but I wouldn't give up my day job for it.

It would impact and potentially undo all the work I've done building my current career. Which I've already had to rebuild due to other factors. It's not easy, I know that much. And I had some luck thrown into the bargain.

No chance I'd risk my livelihood for a career with such limited prospects.

But I'll still DREAM of playing for the Pies.

 

[DaVe86]

Wouldn't we be better off keeping 25 and getting a player or pick for Cloke?

Not if we want to try and get back into the first round (gives us flexibility to trade next year's first rounder if necessary). If we dont get another first rounder, we are almost committed to taking next years and 2018 picks to the draft