Collingwood's appalling Grand Final record

[Ed D]

Putting it all into one list makes it sound like the whingiest thing ever ahaha! But all (well most) of it has it's merrits for certain years. Just goes to show that you need a hell of a lot going right to win a premiership, and right now things are lining up. In a few years time the GC/GWS compensations are really going to take their effect so it's a great time to be in premiership mode before that happens.

 

[lgarth80]

Poor administration must count for a bit: listed at 5 and 27

Number 7 - our rivals are better than us - needs more investigation and unpicking.

Collingwood over history was the best team because of their philosophy under McHale, and Kyne of developing a team that could not just go to the well once but multiple times.

McHale took time building, tuning and refining the Machine, and at times it appeared to cost results, but inevitably the team won multiple flags. The building of a premiership team was not the end in itself - the end was building a team that could contest the premiership every year, and be able to win multiples across a few years.

Kyne was not immediately successful as one would have expected after taking over from McHale (after McHale had again turned to youth post-war), but his teams were successful on multiple occasions, against the odds.

What has made other teams better than us has been running into 'dynasty teams'. There is no disgrace or dishonour about losing to high quality teams. In fact it is expected.

What Collingwood has needed to do is to build these teams, even at the expense of the short term.

Sometimes I feel the malaise of the late 60s to early 80s was about winning "that one flag" over building a team for sustained excellence, knowing that the fruit of premiership glory would inevitably be tasted along the way.

I even think in 1990 we didn't understand the value of repeated success. Fair enough given we had not redeveloped this culture, but it was in the Magpies spirit from the outset, and we have to be smart to regain it.

Despite what others may believe, I see the draft process as a means by which teams can either stay reasonably average over time, and occasionally find a complete gun player and be a great team - or can ride the up and down shifts, being either appalling for a season or two, followed by a taking the time to build a premiership list. The first approach is the North/Sydney/no cash approach, where the second appears to be the "pain now flag later" medicine taken on by most teams outside Geelong.

The cyclic nature of the draft means that it is more important to win premierships when you are in your zone, to be forever involved in succession planning, and knowing when to completely rebuild the machine because a re-tooling won't be enough.

I'm thinking from the lessons of the past and the present, Collingwood should build and win a few more flags in this current era. It remains to be seen, as one of our greatest rivals has had to accept some pretty nasty medicine over the past 20 years, but has got good intelligence on deck (mostly from us), is building for the long haul, has equal amounts of class on their list to us in terms of draft picks, and has made steady upward progress.

We must remain on top of the curve to prevent them from getting any success in the near future.

 

[sherb]

The Hopkins thing has always annoyed me as IMO he was an absolute dud but made a major impact in a GF. He was virtually never sighted thereafter.

There was a very good reason for this - he retired from VFL football at the end of Round 1, 1971. From the Blueseum:

In the weeks and months after those Grand Final heroics, Ted found the adulation difficult to cope with. Never very comfortable in the limelight, he sought escape from his fame by camping in the bush during the off-season, and running a water-ski hire business at Lake Eppalock during the summer months. He saddled up for pre-season training again in 1971, but by then had convinced himself that he had achieved all that he possibly could in his VFL career. Therefore, after just one match in the new season – again off the bench, against North Melbourne at Arden Street – he quietly retired from elite level football to take up a new career as Head Ranger at Falls Creek National Park. Some 12 months later however, the lure of the game brought Ted back to the field for Albury in the Ovens and Murray League. He spent two years with the Tigers, then headed home to the Latrobe Valley to finish his football career with the Yallourn Blues.

http://www.blueseum.org/tiki-index.php?page=Ted+Hopkins

 

[lozza63]

What an interesting and insightful thread (thanks to the many who contributed) - couldnt bear to read for quite a while all those bad memories - glad i did, just so much to learn from history.

I think what has galled me about our record (since 1970) has been, apparently, our inability to learn too much from our losses and to do something about them the following/subsequent years.

I recall thinking righto we lost this one we'll win it next time, for sure - and hell it never panned out - i mean at the '90 game it took until the 25 minute mark of the final for us to acknowledeg that we would finally win this bloody thing again! Years of practise at losing does that to you - makes you wary and pessimistic (breeds an expectation of a loss).

But for me back in the day I would reason that a loss would spur the boys to a win the following season - not us though!

But look at all the examples to support my rather flimsy and very naive reasoning!

Richmond beaten in '72 win in '73/'74.

North beaten in '74 win in '75.

North beaten in '76 win in '77. Oh Hawks bob up again '78 after a (little rest ie we just squeezed past them in the '77 2nd semi).

Essendon smashed '83 rebound '84/'85

Carlton beaten '86 win in '87.

Hawks beaten '87 win '88, '89.

Eagles beaten in '91 win '92.

Carlton beaten '93 ok took two years win '95.

West Coast beaten '05 win '06.

Geelong beaten '08 win '09 and repeat '11 (after losing a club great and gaining a rookie coach!)

We need to alter the result following year!

We even had sides such Adelaide (back to back '97/'98), spring to mind - not overly brilliant, and on balance probably pitted against stronger opponents in North and St Kilda somehow got the job done.

Now for a while Geelong were in our boat - perenially found ways to lose especially in the '90s - they have now totally changed that since their '08 shock!

I guess all this raving has not much point except that we need to work harder at what it takes to win - you know learn from the loss. I would think, would hope, that we now have all the tools to review what was a dramatic loss. Sure against a tremendously prepared and worthy opponent - but really prior to round 24 we were toasting our most successful season since the war! Did we just believe a little to much that the 2010 recipe - we need to find the answers and fast - do we believe we will find the right ingredients?

I am over MM now, love what he did for us - yet there is always need to shake things up and Bucks will do his utmost for sure - hell he can really look at Chris Scott as a perfect example.

We have much to learn from Geelong, Hawthorn and Carlton are closing, fledgling clubs building from scratch - we just cant afford to miss the tram this year - the time is now.

I dont think we were really able to learn from previous losses in those years '70-'81 when by all probability we threw away 2/3 flags - we need to learn from the loss and make the necessary corrections - cant make excuses for 2011, move on with the hurt and help that turn 2012 into a memorable year!

I am really not over last year yet as you can see by all this drivel - sorry guys! It is just another ache to carry along with '70, '77, '79, '80, '81, '02, '03 & '11. Oh well i'm lucky i wasnt 10 years older and feel the 60s pain (gee feel for you guys with the pain of another 3 losses) = 11 losses for those born pre '54/5!