Combined Soccer vs AFL threads - please post here

[Casey]

was watching a documentary on soccer on SBS tonight and it annoyed me that they were claiming that Soccer was one of the worlds oldest game after they traced it back to a game that resembles Rugby... Anyway thats not relevant to the point of this thread.
It got me thinking, If AFL were to go international do you think it would be a success and do you think that this will ever happen. I'd be interested to see how it went but honestly hope it never happens though i think it will have to one day. Thoughts?

 

[G.O.B]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

AFL football has taken the best part of 2 decades to barely make inroads into NSW and QLD and you're starting to talk "global".
Will not make any imprint on our closest neighbours within my lifetime let alone Europe, The Americas or Africa.
In a word, NO.

Edit: Why were you annoyed that this doco made the claim that soccer is one of the world's oldest sports? Are you disputing this fact or is there another reason.

 

[pjcrows]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

The only way the AFL would go global is if the entire world's civilisation got wiped out by a freak natural disaster, but Australia was somehow unchanged. Slowly, as Australians migrate to other parts of the world and the whole world becomes full of Australians, the game would go global.

 

[Crosby87]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

I don't understand why people care so much about it going global. I enjoy watching the AFL in winter, and I wouldn't want all this Australia vs. whoever else garbage in summer, or whatever, when it's cricket season, where I'm cheering for Australia in a different sport, anyways.

 

[DynamoUltra]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

And if it goes global, the chances of Australia having the best league in the world is very small as the money is overseas, and the players will go over there. Why would we want our only little heaven to be shared?

 

[Casey]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

Edit: Why were you annoyed that this doco made the claim that soccer is one of the world's oldest sports? Are you disputing this fact or is there another reason.

I'm disputing the fact because the documentary was saying that it was traced back to a sport that more closely resemble AFL and Rugby then soccer. The guy in the re-enactment was carrying the ball with his hands.

 

[kimirocks]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

NEVER, Never, never. The closest that we should ever come to global is Tasmania, and thats nothing to chear about either, the only good things in Tassie are chocolate and beer

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

hahaha

 

[bucksisbest]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

No , nor would you want it go to global.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

And if it goes global, the chances of Australia having the best league in the world is very small as the money is overseas, and the players will go over there. Why would we want our only little heaven to be shared?

Relax mate...

There's more chance of tiddlywinks going global...

 

[- PC -]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

It will have its pockets but any major inroads will always be by expats .

 

[Kangaroopit]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

As an Englishman who loves the sport, I have answers to a number of comments so far.

Firstly. it annoys me when ignorant Brits assume soccer to be the original code of football. It's difficult to say exactly, one way or the other. You can claim that Association Football has existed since the Eton Rules were codified in about 1815, but nothing really approaching the current sport of soccer was written down until the 1850s, with the first interscholastic game being played in 1863, and quintessential soccer components such as crossbars and goal keepers didn't exist until the 1880s/90s. Meanwhile Aussie Rules (or even Victorian Rules) hasn't changed as much since it was codified in the 1850s. Gaelic Rules predates Victorian Rules, but it has had substantial changes over the past 150 years, including the ball changing from oval to round.

In terms of "If Aussie Rules were to go international, would it be a success?" that pretty much answers itself. For Aussie Rules to go international, it would need to be a success. I would dearly love for Aussie Rules to go international. Almost nothing could make me happier. I want to cheer on my local Aussie Rules team from the stadium. I want to go to England vs Australia games where England has a chance of returning the favour and beating the Aussies at a sport that they invented. If such a game happens in my lifetime, I don't care how far I have to fly, nor how old I am, but I'll be there. As an optimist who has tried a fair bit to make Aussie Rules go international, I hope that it will, but I can only see that coming slowly. Progress is being made, teams are being created faster than they are disappearing, and this ought to continue for quite a while. Aussie Rules's long-term success depends on the investment it is given by the AFL, and by people who really want to see it succeed internationally. If current trends continue, it will eventually have a decent international following, but it will take decades before many internationals can even follow the sport without difficulty, then a few more before they get into playing the sport mainstream, and then even more before they can become the Italy to the AFLs 5 Nations. We can but try, and it will be worth it.

I do, however, think that Aussie Rules needs to go global. When the sport is only kept by one country, it is vulnerable. If Australia do well in the soccer World Cup, then it will distract young players and spectators towards soccer. If the trend continued, then it could only be a few generations before Aussie Rules became a minority sport. It takes a global following for a code to become secure. The more international, the better, as shown be Rugby Union and Soccer. Also, the fact that a sport can be played internationally is attractive in itself. It gives 6-year-olds the dream of scoring the winning goal, after the siren, for their country, above and beyond doing it for their team.

Australia would definitely have the best league in the world for a long time after the sport went global. The AFL would be established and prestigious. Australia would have little more problem with big names leaving the AFL for the BARFL than English soccer fans do with Spanish and Italian leagues.

And, finally, tiddlywinks has already gone global.

Long live the dream.

 

[zero]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

no it wont, and there is no requirement for it to do so. any more than there is requiment for gaelic, NFL or ice hockey to go global.

ice hockey is a great example, as canada and australia share many similarities.

there is no requirement for ice hockey to be anything more than a north american and minor north european sport. the game will thrive in its own market, and there it need only stay.

there is one thing that will keep soccer down, i believe. that being that the best aussie players wont play in australia. ever. even if australia because soccer mad overnight, and the amount of money in the sport multiplied by 10, or 20, then the best of the best are STILL going to be playing in europe.

what i DO think is necessary, is the AFL needs to dominate our own market. i think it is very important for the AFL to remain the most popular sport in aus, with all the best youngsters. i want the quality of the game to get better with its popularity. and to garuantee the quality and existing makeup of the comp, we need to continue to grow into the northern markets.

i would hate to see a large restructure like soccer or basketball has had to kill off a bunch of clubs.

 

[James23]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

if it became global, all our gun players would leave.. unless there was a global salary cap brought in - but i dont think that is possible

 

[bullish23]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

What the AFL's aim should be is for the grand final to become a global event like the superbowl. However if it thinks it is going to become a global sport then it needs to get a sense of reality as its never going to happen.

The world cup dwarfs all, so lets just sit back and enjoy the ride for the next month. No need for comparisons as many love both games.

 

[AndrewOH]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

While i dont think we will ever have enough global intrest to see Australia v another country with the other county a chance to win i think the next logical step is to expand into Asia since you dont need a large % of the population to make a profit like you would in NZ. If a team managed to pick up a quality player for Asia i think that would a be in for that market

 

[The Pies Are In Front]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

ARRRRRRRRRGH No Peg!

 

[cckid]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

It will have its pockets but any major inroads will always be by expats .

There sir I would argue. Why expats may be the driving force to get some thing up and running it is the locals that will need to embrace the sport and continue to drive the growth and expansion. Typically after 2-3 years expats return to Australia leaving a void tht needs to be filled by locals. Expats are currently key to the passing of knowledge about the game, but it is the locals that are taking over club and doing the administration and coaching after a few years of playing. I myself have started two different clubs in the past 6 years.

The question is no longer "will we go global" it really should be "how many nations will embrace the sport?"

Globalization is not something to be feared. The arguement most consistantly thrown up is that all our players will leave home for big money overseas. Reality check time, the sport is not likely to get so big as to see salaries compete with the AFL. To the best of my knowledge there is not one league overseas that actually pays players any amount. Player of the Game might get his drinks paid for for the night but thats it. What you will find is kids from overseas trying to make it to the AFL. That is not necessarily a bad thing. If there is better talent out there then the game should get better.

It just disappoints me that there is such a negative attitude towards people from around the world embracing a game that Australians created. I would have thought a sense of pride would have been more the right repsonse, dare i dream some encouragement to those that are learning a game that is completely foreign to them.

Next time i'mm in Australia i'll bring my ice skates and teach you all how to play hockey the right way.;D

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

never will it become a global game but if we made a summer league in europe the usa ect, then im sure it would grow if done properly because it would have no competition with other sports, but it would cost a fortune.

 

[VikingSven]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

A couple of things:

Australian Football was codified 5 years before Association Football (Soccer). Source: World Footy News. AFL is the name of the professional league in Australia; just one of the many leagues (amateur and professional) around the world. Call Australian Football "AFL" is equivalent to calling Soccer or Football "FA" (no pun intended). Source: World Footy Map

It remains the number 1 sport in Australia (the market is conquered and anymore money spent in NSW and QLD will only maintain ground made there after the NRL-Superleague era). It would take a massive long-term investment and a generation to make further inroads into these relatively small markets - money that would go a long, long way further in places like the massively populated Asian and African continents. Source: The Sweeney Sports report - The Sweeney Sports report

The sport of Australian Football is already global, with some 30,000+ players outside of Australia. Source: World Footy Census 2004

A summer league in Europe and North America is a good idea. In fact most countries play in the summer as off-season gridiron, ice-hockey, rugby & soccer players, playing fields and good weather are readily available.

The AFL needs to wake up and invest more in the grass roots development of the sport. With over AUD$800 million in media rights in the next few years, now has the money to do this and do it properly; and with government support in places like South Africa and China. While global investment from the AFL remains $600K annually, in-roads into new markets will be extremely slow; often relying on the hard work of part-time volunteers and "come-and-go" ex-pats. One would expect more from the "keeper of the code" and the "global authority".

We have a great game that sells itself. Why keep it to ourselves?

 

[0497]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

One hinderance that tends to be forgotten by football(generic) imperialists is that sport is a cultural phenomenon. People tend to invest heavily into a football code and for them to change completely is problematic.

A major reason why soccer never took off in Australia, the US, and NZ was the fact by the time organised soccer arrived, the other football codes had already been established. In other countries however, this was not the case. Organised spectator never really developed for many countries until the turn of the 20th century - several decades after the UK, Aus, NZ and US (can be attributed to the industrial revolution but it's a long story).

Replacement of one sport over another will require overturning leagues that have existed for generations and their financial and emotional ties to the people.

Soccer may grow in Australia but won't replace the professional codes. Same for RU over RL and the AFL in non-AFL areas (domestic and global).

 

[MrAaron]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

AFL will be playing home & Away games overseas more and more int eh future but there will never be a club located outside of Australia. No chance in hell.

 

[Ragnarok14]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

First off, didn't aussie rules and soccer come from the same place? along with rugby, league and gridiron?

Second, I dont know if you could count the 30,000 people playing it around the world as global as their not professional players in professional leagues.

Third, one major thing hampering aussie rules going global is the facility requirements which not many countries have (except those that have cricket as a main sport).

Fourth, I don't think it going international would lead to the best players leaving, look at league, a lot of players could earn more in england rather than playing here. Of course if it really did become completely global the sheer amount of money in it would be huge.

Fifth, for people comparing the need for aussie rules to go global with the NFL's, take a closer look. The NFL has already started trying to develop a league in europe and now china. These people aren't idoits, they know the world is getting smaller and that they need to do something to keep the value of their sport up. (actually thinking about it, the way they have NFL europe set up with fringe players from the major clubs being asigned to the league to get game time but can still be called up would work pretty well for the AFL maybe).

 

[Sir_Adrian84]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

no and hopefully not
as people have said many sports exist primarily in one country

 

[Verbeek]

Re: Soccer Vrs AFL - Will we go global???

No , nor would you want it go to global.

It's like that time I released my own single which didnt even crack the Top 100... Good, I didnt want it to!