Combined Vent threads.

[Barry_Badrinath]

Since you seem to think you know all the details of everyones contracts - what are we paying Hampson? We gave up a 2nd rounder for him, while White was apparently not worth any comp pick - so what kind on contract did he offer him? Are we getting value from that, or at least better value than White offered? And what exactly did Hampson do prior to us giving him that contract to deserve it?

Nope, but that doesn't mean we should overpay White too.

And from what I've heard it was about $250,000 for Hampson.

 

[astro_toby]

You cant revisit things in Hindsight. Shultz wanted to be traded the year before he did, and at that stage hadn't done much for us, and by his own recollection, needed a new head start and a better application to his footy. As for White, he was offered a better contract per year, for more years. Its simple as that.

Yes you can - you totally can. In hindsight you have the privilege of dealing with facts to back up the decision as opposed to "potential" - LOL Facts are the only thing that realy matters - both in reality and in hindsight

Its this meek defence of mistakes that makes me ****ing sick to the stomach with this club and its supporters. The facts are clear as ****ing day we have let some quality guys walk out for free while trading and recruiting a series of players who never really suggested they could do better - all in the belief that Quantity beats quality

 

[astro_toby]

Nope, but that doesn't mean we should overpay White too.

And from what I've heard it was about $250,000 for Maric.

What about Hampson ?

 

[astro_toby]

Nope, but that doesn't mean we should overpay White too.

And from what I've heard it was about $250,000 for Maric.

But clearly - White is not overpaid based on his output last year and this.....

I just don't understand the philosophy of having a guy that long and waiting for him to hit his obvious peak to let him walk out the door...... for nothing. I mean, if we traded him and got a decent pick or player for him - all good. But to let him walk, then trade a 2nd rounder and over pay most likely for a bloke who has never shown glimpses of being near his peak - its just dumb management

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Couldn't agree more Astro . Coaching staff have absolutely cooked this year on so many levels . It was evident that the rot had set in in the trade period. Jesus Christ they are idiot and still are . Who died and made out best small defender in Morris a forward . Who died and made our best small forward draft pick in 5 years Madonna a 5 foot 6 Backman ? Wtf

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

What about Hampson ?

Sorry, I meant to type Hampson.

 

[kozi]

One of the positives we have is Dusty, for all the contract shit he's been consistently our best this year and he actually looks like he gives more of a damn than a few of our guys.

 

[theflea]

Yes you can - you totally can. In hindsight you have the privilege of dealing with facts to back up the decision as opposed to "potential" - LOL Facts are the only thing that realy matters - both in reality and in hindsight

Its this meek defence of mistakes that makes me ******* sick to the stomach with this club and its supporters. The facts are clear as ******* day we have let some quality guys walk out for free while trading and recruiting a series of players who never really suggested they could do better - all in the belief that Quantity beats quality

Sorry mate disagree. When I say you cant revisit it I mean you cant reinvent what happened. White was offered a contract, but was given a better one. I understand that some would have preferred some didn't stay so he could but that is a different argument, as we still would only have offered what we thought was warranted. Shultz was playing poorly which was why he was traded. It took him a few years to get better anyway, after that. But as I said he needed the kick in the arse too.

 

[astro_toby]

One of the positives we have is Dusty, for all the contract shit he's been consistently our best this year and he actually looks like he gives more of a damn than a few of our guys.

I love what Martin can do on the field - but i personally would have preferred he left and we traded him for Tyson or something like that. No doubt the boy can play but that performance he put on last year with his contract is culture ****ING destroying

 

[kozi]

I love what Martin can do on the field - but i personally would have preferred he left and we traded him for Tyson or something like that. No doubt the boy can play but that performance he put on last year with his contract is culture ******* destroying

I get what you're saying but look at the crap heap we have infront of us now, that is forgotten about in the face of the massive issues we have. I was pissed off at Dusty too but you gotta remember it was is dickhead manager Carr pulling the strings. He always wanted to stay.

 

[astro_toby]

Sorry mate disagree. When I say you cant revisit it I mean you cant reinvent what happened. White was offered a contract, but was given a better one. I understand that some would have preferred some didn't stay so he could but that is a different argument, as we still would only have offered what we thought was warranted. Shultz was playing poorly which was why he was traded. It took him a few years to get better anyway, after that. But as I said he needed the kick in the arse too.

I do know what you mean, but facts will always be facts - and accountability needs to be had. The hardest thing is drafting and recruiting players is getting quality on your list. If you then end up with a list with a distinct lack of quality, then also have quite a few obvious quality players end up at other clubs and we get practically nothing in return, and we STILL have unsatisfactory results and fail in hitting out goals - then the facts say we got it wrong and our ability to manage our assists if flawed and needs reviewing. Like it or not, the fact is nearly 25 % of our list now is recycled players from other clubs and the genuine rate of those blocked being quality is probably less than 20%

See below - the * players are the guys that genuinely offer quality, the # blokes are blokes who i think are a TBA . You have to remember, the club sold this season as building on last year - going backwards was not an option - missing finals was a total fail.

In -
1. Stephenson
2. Houli *
3. Grigg
4. Maric *
5. Knights
6. Edwards
7. Hampson
8. Lloyd
9. Morris
10. Gordon
11. Banfield
12. Chaplin #
13. Morris #
14. Thomas

That list represents over 1 quarter of all our listed players - its a really poor result, in hindsight, fact and reality.

 

[Konrad2709]

Who died and made our best small forward draft pick in 5 years Madonna a 5 foot 6 Backman ? Wtf

But all of our young guys need blooding in the back to make them better players /DH-Logic

One of the positives we have is Dusty, for all the contract shit he's been consistently our best this year and he actually looks like he gives more of a damn than a few of our guys.

Sadly, the pessimist inside me things he'll keep improving and doing his best to drive up his price. I don't see Dusty bleeding Yellow & Black like Jack or some of the other players.

 

[astro_toby]

I get what you're saying but look at the crap heap we have infront of us now, that is forgotten about in the face of the massive issues we have. I was pissed off at Dusty too but you gotta remember it was is dickhead manager Carr pulling the strings. He always wanted to stay.

Don;t get me wrong,i don';t sit there and watch him play and wish him gone - it was just a bad look and, unfortunately, when seasons like this happen - everything that happened over the past 12 months gets the going over with the fine tooth comb to find where and how the cracks occurred and developed so quickly. Something stinks and the players definitely don;'t have that togetherness they had 12 months ago.

They are bad mouthing the coach publicly - they are privately questions the strength and hardness of the coach and captain. Why has this happened? Was it a few personnel leaving like McGuane, Nahas & White who may have had a bigger impact on the morale than we anticipated? Was it the lack of strength shown by the club dealing with Martins, contract & Connor issues as well as Kings bikie stuff? We really can't even blame injuries as they have not been a huge factor, especially from a club that apparently had dealt with its depth problem by recruiting all the above said players - So where has this fractured club problem come from? Its not even June yet and the year is already a total disaster and a lost cause - this IS a worst case scenario and their is absolutely NO EXCUSE of "bad luck" or "Injuries" - The wheels have juste come right off!

 

[theflea]

We won the rd 2 v the blues. Just saying.

 

[astro_toby]

But all of our young guys need blooding in the back to make them better players /DH-Logic

Sadly, the pessimist inside me things he'll keep improving and doing his best to drive up his price. I don't see Dusty bleeding Yellow & Black like Jack or some of the other players.

sadly, i agree with the latter. It might be wrong - but he has that all over him. Its concerning he still seems to be closest with Connors than anyone else associated with the club - and their is no doubt Connors hates the club and feels like they wronged him. bird of a feather...

 

[Nostradumbass]

We won the Myki cup against GWS.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

What about the effect a player like Hampson has on club morale ? If I was big O's wife I'd be sitting in the stands wondering why a multi millionaire has cost her husband and his 4 kids over 20 k in match payments this year. The bloke is a cancer on the club and Blaire Hartley f$$$$$ked up

 

[Bazzar]

Matt White did not deserve a $300-350,000 a year 3 year deal and he was certainly not loyal.

Richo said last week on 3AW that he would have taken a 2 year deal even if it was slightly under his current in terms of $'s He said the club handled it badly.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Richo said last week on 3AW that he would have taken a 2 year deal even if it was slightly under his current in terms of $'s He said the club handled it badly.

That's not what RT and Doctor Mike said

 

[Bazzar]

That's not what RT and Doctor Mike said

I trust Richo.

 

[astro_toby]

Sorry mate disagree. When I say you cant revisit it I mean you cant reinvent what happened. White was offered a contract, but was given a better one. I understand that some would have preferred some didn't stay so he could but that is a different argument, as we still would only have offered what we thought was warranted. Shultz was playing poorly which was why he was traded. It took him a few years to get better anyway, after that. But as I said he needed the kick in the arse too.

Just to end on - it seems like you have a good grasp of the club and the internal stuff and the past etc etc etc

You just need to have 1 look at how those players handled the Hafey game and today. By far those 2 games where HUGE moments in finding out what kind of pride & respect these players have in their coaches, teammates, club and its history. You will be hard pressed to find 2 games that were more damning in those areas, than those 2 games

Shits not right bro - and until those questions have answers, we will always be Richmond, the self imploding laughing stock. It's still the same cultural issues we have had for 25 years. TYes off field we have improved lightyears - but this is meant to be about football, and when it comes to that - we are still space monkeys.

 

[astro_toby]

I trust Richo.

I heard the same thing last year when he signed too from lots of reliable sources ( admittedly not people who work for the club, but people who over a long period of time just always seem right about these things )

In Richo, we trust

 

[theflea]

I do know what you mean, but facts will always be facts - and accountability needs to be had. The hardest thing is drafting and recruiting players is getting quality on your list. If you then end up with a list with a distinct lack of quality, then also have quite a few obvious quality players end up at other clubs and we get practically nothing in return, and we STILL have unsatisfactory results and fail in hitting out goals - then the facts say we got it wrong and our ability to manage our assists if flawed and needs reviewing. Like it or not, the fact is nearly 25 % of our list now is recycled players from other clubs and the genuine rate of those blocked being quality is probably less than 20%

See below - the * players are the guys that genuinely offer quality, the # blokes are blokes who i think are a TBA . You have to remember, the club sold this season as building on last year - going backwards was not an option - missing finals was a total fail.

In -
1. Stephenson
2. Houli *
3. Grigg
4. Maric *
5. Knights
6. Edwards
7. Hampson
8. Lloyd
9. Morris
10. Gordon
11. Banfield
12. Chaplin #
13. Morris #
14. Thomas

That list represents over 1 quarter of all our listed players - its a really poor result, in hindsight, fact and reality.

Yeah quality is a different argument that what we were talking about tho. I like the idea we had, just went too far with it. The early types were ok, just the last few I didn't want, hell I didn't want Hampson either but I did want his 'type'. Either way, some will let go at seasons end.

 

[astro_toby]

That's not what RT and Doctor Mike said

sorry but who is RT and Doctor Mike??

 

[astro_toby]

Yeah quality is a different argument that what we were talking about tho. I like the idea we had, just went too far with it. The early types were ok, just the last few I didn't want, hell I didn't want Hampson either but I did want his 'type'. Either way, some will let go at seasons end.

Yeah, i like the idea of a threesome too, but the reality is its impossible to not go to far with it and really piss of the misses.

Recycled and mature age players is just that, a nice idea - but rarely results in a happy ending.