Combined Vent threads.

[theflea]

What about the effect a player like Hampson has on club morale ? If I was big O's wife I'd be sitting in the stands wondering why a multi millionaire has cost her husband and his 4 kids over 20 k in match payments this year. The bloke is a cancer on the club and Blaire Hartley f$$$$$ked up

What????? He had to be convince to play again on an AFL wage instead of actually working for a living............What a load of bull.

 

[TigerImposter]

Clearly this season has been a disgrace, but i think the thing that has made it the worst is - we are COMPLETELY back to being the laughing stock again. Not just for the way we got ahead of ourselves and perform weekly well under our own vocalised expectations - but we are just doing dumb, weak shit.

The list is quite damning really

1) Jake King warned about bikies - Jake King then has lunch right near channel 7's offices with the head of a bikie gang - club does't react and shrugs it off

2) Dustin Martins general contract negotiations - club fails to control it before it become a farce

3) Dustin Martin moves in with "sleeping pills" Connors- 12 months after he is told he is banned from hanging out with him period - club shrugs it off and doesn't react.

4) Club totally squibs it when a chance to honour a passed away great - ala when Jack Dyer died and again now with Hafey

5) Hardwick attempts to change the game plan to something the team that just won the flag just did ( i.e once again we react and copy, than create our one wheel ).

6) Hardwick proclaims Vickery the future of our forward line over Riewolt...Vickery then spends several weeks playing in reserves due to poor form, teamwork and attitude.

7) Hit the recycled/mature age recruit bag with total utter insanity by recruiting Hampson, Banfield, Lloyd, Gordon, Edwards, Chaplin, Stephenson, Pettard, Thomas, Knights over a 2 year period... then let a unique to our list, loyal, tiger at heart stalwart like White walk as we can't offer him the contract he clearly deserved

8 ) Riewoldt publicly critical of the game plan. Club over-reacts, then try's to play it as light hearted.

9) Riewoldt then loses his shit when the camera's come for him and goes off like a running man hiding between cars and catching a train home - even though he drove to training

10) Captain comes out and proclaims the players think he is sot

11) The Coach comes out and proclaims the players this he is soft

12) a matter of only days later, the clubs backs up those honest very public feedbacks with a total piss poor performance against a hated arch rival

That list of totally ridiculous & embarrassing unprofessional chain of events is why supporters have laughed at us for decades. We implode. We have no idea how to handle any success, poorly copy other clubs cultures & always end up where we began - nowhere.

Is it just me or is the above totally nuts???? it was 12 months ago we had a young squad competing like a top 4 team with a club culture and attitude to back it up??? How the hell does this always happen??

After tonight I'm waving the white flag for Benny
Poor taskmasters=no discipline =rabble

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

sorry but who is RT and Doctor Mike??

They are the Carlton mods

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

After tonight I'm waving the white flag for Benny
Poor taskmasters=no discipline =rabble

I want Peggy to run a broom through the coaching staff

 

[theflea]

Just to end on - it seems like you have a good grasp of the club and the internal stuff and the past etc etc etc

You just need to have 1 look at how those players handled the Hafey game and today. By far those 2 games where HUGE moments in finding out what kind of pride & respect these players have in their coaches, teammates, club and its history. You will be hard pressed to find 2 games that were more damning in those areas, than those 2 games

Shits not right bro - and until those questions have answers, we will always be Richmond, the self imploding laughing stock. It's still the same cultural issues we have had for 25 years. TYes off field we have improved lightyears - but this is meant to be about football, and when it comes to that - we are still space monkeys.

I don't really know about the internal stuff much, just bits and pieces as a fan for a long time. The milestone games are imo hit and miss, as plenty don't win for the right reasons. But it did show how much we need inside mids, as we cant win the ball at the moment. What we did well last year was win it on the inside and run with it on the outside and we are a mile off that this year. Is it coaching/players/intent etc, etc who knows exactly. Probably a combo of all of it. I was always of the view we need 2 more drafts to get the list right, so lets take stock now, figure out who is to stay or go and then play them. Look to secure better coaches, Voss/Knights etc and assess fitness staff as well.

 

[Nostradumbass]

sorry but who is RT and Doctor Mike??

Some random people on the internet.

 

[TigerImposter]

Sorry i don't believe your number and facts. If White was getting offered $1million over 3 years, we would have most likely got a compensation pick for him.

My belief is we had offered him the same $100k 1 year contract for several years and we only marginally upped it when he was 26 and coming off winning our most improved player award.

His speed and fitness was pivotal for us in many occasions last year, and we clearly miss it this time round. If the club needed convincing of how important it was, we only need to look at the Carlton final last year when he was out. The other issue is we didn't really try to replace him with a new like minded player - if anything we also let another "speed" player walk for nothing in Nahas ( which i don't necessarily disagree with ).

I just fail to understand the value in recruiting "depth" like edwards, Thomas, Hampson, etc etc etc if it comes at the cost of players who were already providing similar quality depth, or even better - like losing White, Nahas & McGuane. as much as McGuane was a wild card, he provided a more competitive and hungry depth player than edwards. We let 2 genuine competitors walk out for nothing in favour of keeping new players that had not proved to love our club like both those boys did. With King out we are totally lacking in truly competitive players - and all those recycled blokes are playing in the seconds and not providing any real alternative to what we already had. The depth is actually worse - it is totally undeniable.

I think both boys left as they didn't think they would get the opportunities they deserved with us, we didn't sell the fact they would well enough. - cos the fact is, both those boys would be getting as much opportunity this season as they are getting currently. I think we prioritised their contracts incorrectly and we got too focused on the Martin & Conca signing

Depth players=Death players for the coach

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

What????? He had to be convince to play again on an AFL wage instead of actually working for a living............What a load of bull.

Football clubs are football clubs and they are all about culture and sticking up for and respecting the blokes that put their head over the ball on a weekly basis , yes he is earning more than your average electrician but that didn't mean you don't want to earn more that's what life is about especially when you have 4 kids. That's what you train your guys out for at 31 years of age . Team success and coin. You can not tell me any different Flea. Time you anaylised the mental side of the game to see how bad the coaching and recruiting staff have cooked this mate

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Some random people on the internet.

It's ok , guys we have this we will get it back on track . Hardwick had this under control , it's only round 4 and the team will learn the new game plan and come good .

 

[theflea]

Yeah, i like the idea of a threesome too, but the reality is its impossible to not go to far with it and really piss of the misses.

Recycled and mature age players is just that, a nice idea - but rarely results in a happy ending.

The recycled idea is fine, depending on what, you have to compliment them with. It was only supposed to sustain us while the draftees, come on and over take them. Unfortunately that hasn't happened.

 

[Bazzar]

What dissapointed me was reading an article on the players who stand up when the going gets tough. CH Data has put it together based on ranking points over 120 minutes where the margin is 12 points or less and no surprise Cotch is in the top of the crop and naturally our number one... But they also included the worst, Eagles J Kennedy, Lindsy Thomas, Crows Josh Jenkins AND Jack Reiwoldt who's performances drop upto 20% when the games are on the line.

But lolz, Cloke is ranked 369th of the 383 measured.

 

[docko911]

The club seem to handle a lot of things badly....

Like this bloke has a great idea to copy Hawthorn's game plan "yeah baby premierships here we come"

Bloke brings in shit kicks like Grigg, Petterd, Chaplin and Thomas.


Matty White's hamstring may well have cost us the EF. He was a lot more valuable last year than people remember.

He left for security and I don't blame him 3 years instead of 1 and more money... seems a no brainer. We didn't get compensation because we had used free agency in the past, doesn't make sense because Port got compo then got White later...

Hampson 280k if you believe reports.

Regardless aren't Chaplin and Grigg on like 350-400k. Bit ridiculous for two players just above VFL level.

My biggest disappointment this year is that even after 7 losses our coach still has 17 of the players who played in round 1 in the team. This also doesn't include Maric and Jackson who were injured, and Vlastuin, Newman and Astbury who are injured.

Effectively we don't have Ty Vickery and Ricky Petterd in the team from round 1 but both of these players would have been dropped for the injured players anyways.

That is just ridiculous...

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

The recycled idea is fine, depending on what, you have to compliment them with. It was only supposed to sustain us while the draftees, come on and over take them. Unfortunately that hasn't happened.

How can they come on when they aren't played ? How is Thomas getting a full game over Foley . Same player and one attacks , the coaching staff are a sh$t truck

 

[TigerImposter]

You cant revisit things in Hindsight. Shultz wanted to be traded the year before he did, and at that stage hadn't done much for us, and by his own recollection, needed a new head start and a better application to his footy. As for White, he was offered a better contract per year, for more years. Its simple as that.

Stop hitting your head on a brick wall buddy we messed up. The club was too scared to tap Newman and King on the shoulders and they've given us zip for their dollar. Then add all the Bob Jane retreads we've messed up professionally with list management. We never ever do proper rebuilds we seem to keep dead wood on for too long and encourage more of it to tag along

 

[theflea]

Football clubs are football clubs and they are all about culture and sticking up for and respecting the blokes that put their head over the ball on a weekly basis , yes he is earning more than your average electrician but that didn't mean you don't want to earn more that's what life is about especially when you have 4 kids. That's what you train your guys out for at 31 years of age . Team success and coin. You can not tell me any different Flea. Time you anaylised the mental side of the game to see how bad the coaching and recruiting staff have cooked this mate

No you said he had taken cash out of his mouth literally. That is a load of bollocks, regardless of the mental side of things. You cant say he was convinced to play on for 1 more year, but will get the shits because he wants to earn a little more? I still say thats crap.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

The club seem to handle a lot of things badly....

Like this bloke has a great idea to copy Hawthorn's game plan "yeah baby premierships here we come"

Bloke brings in shit kicks like Grigg, Petterd, Chaplin and Thomas.


Matty White's hamstring may well have cost us the EF. He was a lot more valuable last year than people remember.

He left for security and I don't blame him 3 years instead of 1 and more money... seems a no brainer. We didn't get compensation because we had used free agency in the past, doesn't make sense because Port got compo then got White later...

Hampson 280k if you believe reports.

Regardless aren't Chaplin and Grigg on like 350-400k. Bit ridiculous for two players just above VFL level.

My biggest disappointment this year is that even after 7 losses our coach still has 17 of the players who played in round 1 in the team. This also doesn't include Maric and Jackson who were injured, and Vlastuin, Newman and Astbury who are injured.

Effectively we don't have Ty Vickery and Ricky Petterd in the team from round 1 but both of these players would have been dropped for the injured players anyways.

That is just ridiculous...

The numb nut is sitting in the box still looking for answers. Haven't seen him on the phone once this year except for the Carlton game

 

[docko911]

What dissapointed me was reading an article on the players who stand up when the going gets tough. CH Data has put it together based on ranking points over 120 minutes where the margin is 12 points or less and no surprise Cotch is in the top of the crop and naturally our number one... But they also included the worst, Eagles J Kennedy, Lindsy Thomas, Crows Josh Jenkins AND Jack Reiwoldt who's performances drop upto 20% when the games are on the line.

But lolz, Cloke is ranked 369th of the 383 measured.

How many close games do you see dominated by a forward... If Jack was going well game wouldn't be under 12 points. I have seen Jack kick some crucial goals at stages, I don't think he drops off just the defence gets tighter. I agree with Cotch though can lift when the game is on the line, rarely does it any other time.

 

[theflea]

The club seem to handle a lot of things badly....

Like this bloke has a great idea to copy Hawthorn's game plan "yeah baby premierships here we come"

Bloke brings in shit kicks like Grigg, Petterd, Chaplin and Thomas.


Matty White's hamstring may well have cost us the EF. He was a lot more valuable last year than people remember.

He left for security and I don't blame him 3 years instead of 1 and more money... seems a no brainer. We didn't get compensation because we had used free agency in the past, doesn't make sense because Port got compo then got White later...

Hampson 280k if you believe reports.

Regardless aren't Chaplin and Grigg on like 350-400k. Bit ridiculous for two players just above VFL level.

My biggest disappointment this year is that even after 7 losses our coach still has 17 of the players who played in round 1 in the team. This also doesn't include Maric and Jackson who were injured, and Vlastuin, Newman and Astbury who are injured.

Effectively we don't have Ty Vickery and Ricky Petterd in the team from round 1 but both of these players would have been dropped for the injured players anyways.

That is just ridiculous...

Compo for FA is based on every year not what you did previous years. Contract amount is basically the way it works.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

No you said he had taken cash out of his mouth literally. That is a load of bollocks, regardless of the mental side of things. You cant say he was convinced to play on for 1 more year, but will get the shits because he wants to earn a little more? I still say thats crap.

Players contracts at Big O 's level are largely calculated because of match payments Flea , for the 8 out if 9 games Hampson has kept Big 0 out of the side based on potential and not actually earning his spot Big O has been fiddled about 3k per game . Imagine what his mates around the club think of that? The same thing happens at poorly run grass roots clubs when the club drafts the next big thing and he doesn't perform yet he's on 700 a game . Just give it up mate your talking nonsense .

 

[Bazzar]

You just need to have 1 look at how those players handled the Hafey game

And remember we lost the Jack Dyer tribute game, Melbourne were pathetic and lost the Stynes tribute game and the Doggies were no better losing the Ted Whiten tribute game.

 

[astro_toby]

I don't really know about the internal stuff much, just bits and pieces as a fan for a long time. The milestone games are imo hit and miss, as plenty don't win for the right reasons. But it did show how much we need inside mids, as we cant win the ball at the moment. What we did well last year was win it on the inside and run with it on the outside and we are a mile off that this year. Is it coaching/players/intent etc, etc who knows exactly. Probably a combo of all of it. I was always of the view we need 2 more drafts to get the list right, so lets take stock now, figure out who is to stay or go and then play them. Look to secure better coaches, Voss/Knights etc and assess fitness staff as well.

I am happy to persist with Hardwick longer - i am not going to call for sackings based on this 1 season. Perhaps he needs a superior who is sterner to make him more accountable though, as every week he seems to be acknowledging publicly something he got wrong or could improve on. It could mean 2 things - he either understands his weaknesses and knows what to work on - of perhaps, due to his honesty, we all are starting to get a good idea of his overall limitations. The argument has been around for a while that perhaps he has taken us as far as we can go. If he leaves now, he could still leave knowing his time here was successful and still have hope getting a head coaching gig for teams trying to steer through a difficult rebuilding process - but ultimately replaced once the team has reached his limitations for a "big time" coach, ala like Phil Jackson in the NBA

I would have no problem though him wanting another crack next season to improve himself, but my word he would have a hard gig as he definitely would have to cull 7 or so of those apparent "depth players" he recuirted himself and replace them with new draftee's. The only new "immediate impact" player he could possibly go for would be an A or B+ grade Free Agent - which may or may not be available or suitable for our needs. Another year with no finals would mean not only his job gone, but most likely his career and reputation.

Its a massive call for him personally. Facts show, once you get sacked by Richmond, you coaching days and reputation are over.

 

[theflea]

How can they come on when they aren't played ? How is Thomas getting a full game over Foley . Same player and one attacks , the coaching staff are a sh$t truck

Agree with foley but when he did play he didn't much either. I also would say a lot of those players didn't warrant selection. And what about training form? Shouldn't that also come into it?

 

[theflea]

Stop hitting your head on a brick wall buddy we messed up. The club was too scared to tap Newman and King on the shoulders and they've given us zip for their dollar. Then add all the Bob Jane retreads we've messed up professionally with list management. We never ever do proper rebuilds we seem to keep dead wood on for too long and encourage more of it to tag along

Never did bash the head as frankly it would hurt and I aint that dumb!! Agree on Newy and King.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Agree with foley but when he did play he didn't much either. I also would say a lot of those players didn't warrant selection. And what about training form? Shouldn't that also come into it?

Now you want to talk about training form??? I nominate you as the next Mod for this board .

Vote one for Flea

 

[theflea]

The numb nut is sitting in the box still looking for answers. Haven't seen him on the phone once this year except for the Carlton game

DH, like a lot of other coaches, get the assistants to do the phone work.