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Opinion Commentary & Media IX

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hilly said:
Where do you rate Gary Ablett Snr and Tony Lockett out of interest?
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They were great players and showed their class at state of origin level, this was pre professional era, allegedly Gablett didn't train and Lockett spent more time at the pub than the training track. I think both could have been significantly better than they were if they had the kind of professionalism that exists today, it was an era when a lot of players relied more on raw talent than work ethic.

The thing is with forwards, we are seeing it to a certain extent with Larkey, he is finding it harder to kick the kind of goals he used to get when we had fewer options, when you just kick it over and over to one guy, as long as they are not a complete lemon they are going to get a certain number of marks or get free kicks and kick a certain number of goals through a saturation of ball. Plugger used to kick a ton of goals and they would still be shit. To a certain extent, being a one-trick pony team can over-inflate how good someone is. Mark Williams was kicking bags of 70+ goals at Hawthorn before Franklin and co came along and then evaporated when there were other options in the forward 50. You can vacate the forward 50 and through saturation kick what seems like a good amount of goals, but the team got thrashed most of the times. You need more of a complete team effort to be a good team. For forwards, this can impede how many goals you kick when there are other good forwards around.

We aren't kicking the ball to Larkey anywhere near as much as we used to and it has sapped his confidence, the guy almost clangered a handpass in the goal square to Spargo then took advantage and muffed the kick, thankfully the umpire either didn't see it or took mercy on him.

So to a certain extent, I am not sure they would have had the personal results that they did had they been in sides that had more/better forward options than they did during the bulk of their careers. Lockett was only 191cm but he was a beefy boy (112kg), he wouldn't even be considered a key forward by today's standards. He was still supremely talented, had great hands and was a reliable kick but I think the grand final in 96 was the epitome of his career. Kicked 6 goals against us, but the Swans only kicked 13 total and lost it comfortably by 40+ points. Team is more important than the individual.

It is really like LDU, if he played better and was a better team player in previous years, we wouldn't have been as bad as we were, a lot of our problems started in the midfield. We are a lot better now because FOS, Wardlaw, etc are doing the defensive work nobody was doing in previous seasons. LDU hasn't miraculously turned into Cunnington. He is better defensively than he was but he isn't the reason why we are improving imo. When you look at someone like Butters for instance, he is pretty much carrying Port and making them somewhat competitive because of how well he is playing. LDU hasn't been that kind of stabilising force for us for whatever reasons. Someone like Cunnington for us pretty much carried our midfield for a long time.
 

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DuckYeah said:


Stevo is right. The pencil pushing bean counters at our club should be getting this club in a position where selling games shouldnā€™t happen however Stevo, dont use ā€œintegrityā€ of the draw as a reason it shouldnā€™t happen, there is not one thing about this fixture that screams fair.
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talking about integrity while avoiding mentioning gather round or any of the other clubs?
integrity issues only exist if north sell games
 
They have given us shit draws for decades they make it as difficult as possible for us to grow in Melbourne, while allowing others to grow continuously. Thatā€™s why we sell games interstate, we are also now debt free . They would hate that
 
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Tas said:
They were great players and showed their class at state of origin level, this was pre professional era, allegedly Gablett didn't train and Lockett spent more time at the pub than the training track. I think both could have been significantly better than they were if they had the kind of professionalism that exists today, it was an era when a lot of players relied more on raw talent than work ethic.

The thing is with forwards, we are seeing it to a certain extent with Larkey, he is finding it harder to kick the kind of goals he used to get when we had fewer options, when you just kick it over and over to one guy, as long as they are not a complete lemon they are going to get a certain number of marks or get free kicks and kick a certain number of goals through a saturation of ball. Plugger used to kick a ton of goals and they would still be shit. To a certain extent, being a one-trick pony team can over-inflate how good someone is. Mark Williams was kicking bags of 70+ goals at Hawthorn before Franklin and co came along and then evaporated when there were other options in the forward 50. You can vacate the forward 50 and through saturation kick what seems like a good amount of goals, but the team got thrashed most of the times. You need more of a complete team effort to be a good team. For forwards, this can impede how many goals you kick when there are other good forwards around.

We aren't kicking the ball to Larkey anywhere near as much as we used to and it has sapped his confidence, the guy almost clangered a handpass in the goal square to Spargo then took advantage and muffed the kick, thankfully the umpire either didn't see it or took mercy on him.

So to a certain extent, I am not sure they would have had the personal results that they did had they been in sides that had more/better forward options than they did during the bulk of their careers. Lockett was only 191cm but he was a beefy boy (112kg), he wouldn't even be considered a key forward by today's standards. He was still supremely talented, had great hands and was a reliable kick but I think the grand final in 96 was the epitome of his career. Kicked 6 goals against us, but the Swans only kicked 13 total and lost it comfortably by 40+ points. Team is more important than the individual.

It is really like LDU, if he played better and was a better team player in previous years, we wouldn't have been as bad as we were, a lot of our problems started in the midfield. We are a lot better now because FOS, Wardlaw, etc are doing the defensive work nobody was doing in previous seasons. LDU hasn't miraculously turned into Cunnington. He is better defensively than he was but he isn't the reason why we are improving imo. When you look at someone like Butters for instance, he is pretty much carrying Port and making them somewhat competitive because of how well he is playing. LDU hasn't been that kind of stabilising force for us for whatever reasons. Someone like Cunnington for us pretty much carried our midfield for a long time.
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Darling is 191 and a bit of a modern (or very recent) version of Lockett.

Lockett, Ablett and Carey (and Dunstall) were all very strong. Stronger than Larkey and most of todays KPFs. It was a much more one on one game back in those days.

I dunno if you're right about LDU tho. Cunners played with Spitta, Wells, Higgins, Harvey and Ziebell. He had Anderson covering for him late in his career doing a heap of defensive running. LDU hasn't had anything like the support around him or the consistency or stability playing with the same guys for five years. Jy is the only one he's consistently played with and they often work well together.
 
Ashley B said:
They have given us shit draws for decades they make it as difficult as possible for us to grow in Melbourne, while allowing others to grow continuously. Thatā€™s why we sell games interstate, we are also now debt free .
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That and limited free-to-air games hurts the ability to grow and atract sponsors, but now that we have our NGA zones, that should probably be the focus to attract more fans and members.
 
Ashley B said:
They have given us shit draws for decades they make it as difficult as possible for us to grow in Melbourne, while allowing others to grow continuously. Thatā€™s why we sell games interstate, we are also now debt free .
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Debt free and injecting millions with this deal.

Can't rmemeber if it was watts or hood or someone else, but the short term was the finances as our projection was we wouldn't be contending. If we make wildcard, we still won't be contending.


Also the deal was pretty wildcard announcement i believe... deals a winner. Club can't just be about in field unfortunately. Hopefully after this deal it can be though
 

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Ashley B said:
They have given us shit draws for decades they make it as difficult as possible for us to grow in Melbourne, while allowing others to grow continuously. Thatā€™s why we sell games interstate, we are also now debt free .
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Plus the fact that we could potentially just be fixtured to play wc and freo as away games often anyway and get no money. At least if we have to travel there (which the club wouldā€™ve anticipated our fixturing would often be anyway), we might as well get money for it.
 
 

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Cool Kangas said:
Plus the fact that we could potentially just be fixtured to play wc and freo as away games often anyway and get no money. At least if we have to travel there (which the club wouldā€™ve anticipated our fixturing would often be anyway), we might as well get money for it.
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Also its quite conceivable that in a few years we could posibly travel to WA to play freo in a final given their form. Having done it regularly improves the chance of actually being able to win one.
 
DuckYeah said:
Lethal at 4? He kicked a 1000 goals from the midfield? Lethal @2
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Played in a garden league... no doubt he was amazing 4th all- time is pretty respectable.

Just feel if he'd played in a national league and had to travel he'd be marked down a bit. Great player, tough, great coach just behind Carey (obviously), Lockett IMO Definitely and Ablett Sr.

In front of Jr, Buddy, Dunstall, Blight, Polly, Bunton Sr, Judd, Skilton, Goodes, Diesel, Pratt, S Michael.
 
 


 
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