Contested Situations

[Smokin]

we suck.

Ive said it before, and it was clear as day again, our biggest area for improvement is in the blue collar area. We simply dont work hard enough for each other and off the ball.

That is all for today.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

But isn't that how we got back into it?

We smashed them there in the third quarter.

It's numbers around the contest that kills us because we don't have enough run to get there.

 

[bomberstomake8]

we suck.

Ive said it before, and it was clear as day again, our biggest area for improvement is in the blue collar area. We simply dont work hard enough for each other and off the ball.

That is all for today.

i disagree, lucas can take some contested marks although didnt take too many today and lloyds and laycock too. we normally play very well when teams are just bombing into there forward 50 like the pies did today but fletch was off his game and so were a few others. normally we are the best team and helping each other out and getting across to another players man, eg brisband with jonothan brown. it just didnt happen for us today... there is something wrong with the coaches though whoever is responsible, we dont seem to shepheard enough and dont do it effectively either, our forward 50 let us down today, lloyd is still nowhere near his best form, lucas just did alright by his standards, and laycock didnt do much.. hird is a big loss for us, we need him back soon.. another 2 or 3 weeks away though which isnt great..

 

[The Dustbin]

I'd be quite happy to build a midfield around Jobe Watson. The likes of Dempsey, Jetta, Licker, Stanton and even McVeigh.

Peverill and J. Johnson are finished. I hope I'm wrong about Johnno.

 

[angus6]

we suck. yep we got smashed at the stoppages (bar the 3rd) yet most people wanted jj dropped because of his lack of speed. well atleast at stoppages he wins the ball. The game is one in the middle and you have to get first hands on it. if your not you will be chasing bums all day!

That is why guys like peverill need to stay in the team because he gets the ball. why watson needs to get fitter so he can play in there longer, why slattery needs to be dropped because he cant get the ball, why rama being back is important and why hird is so great.

We cant be relying on hird anymore because he wont be there next year. and peverill and jj will be gone in 2 years. watson and mcveigh at the moment are the only other ones that win there own ball for us at the moment and that is not good enough.

 

[angus6]

I'd be quite happy to build a midfield around Jobe Watson. The likes of Dempsey, Jetta, Licker, Stanton and even McVeigh.

Peverill and J. Johnson are finished. I hope I'm wrong about Johnno.

if peverill didnt play today we would have never got back into the game. we would have lost by 79 instead of 29. he wins the ball at stoppages and although he might not be quick or his disposal is not class but at least he gets the thing. better than what the others can do right now. You need a balance in the midfield and at the moment we have too many recievers and not enough getters.

 

[Merv]

Wake up and smell the roses.

We have dropped our guard when it comes to recruiting and we are now starting to pay for it.

Forget about "missing" Hird, he's gone next year and the quicker everyone moves on and realizes that he is not the answer for us the better we will be in the long term.

Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher and Michael will not get any better and will probably only get worse as time goes on.

We need to take some pain NOW to avoid YEARS of it later.

Cut the list deeply and make some tough calls.
Replace the coach and some of his assistants
Consider poaching a top recruiter from another club.

Have no doubt, we are at a major crossroad and any mistakes now will cost us dearly

 

[Merv]

why slattery needs to be dropped because he cant get the ball

Is this the same Slattery that destroyed Swann who has been one of their best players all year?

 

[angus6]

Is this the same Slattery that destroyed Swann who has been one of their best players all year?

yep swan didnt have a great but it was not due to slattery. swan had alot of different opponents all day and played alot more deeper in defence especially in the second half where he was moved onto mcveigh while he was at full forward.

 

[angus6]

i totally agree that our drafting has been very poor and we will pay the price deally. over the next three to five years we have to rebuild becuase we wont be playing finals. our midfield at the moment doest have the right balance and our spine will be retired. i dont believe that our midfield can develop quickly enough for us to have another shot at a flag while lloyd and lucas are still at the club. sorry but its rebuild time. and start be getting a decent recruiting officer at the club.

 

[Darealrath]

we suck.

Ive said it before, and it was clear as day again, our biggest area for improvement is in the blue collar area. We simply dont work hard enough for each other and off the ball.

That is all for today.

Yep. Too many blokes more worried about their own opponent than helping out a teammate. Everyone looking to receive and no one putting on a shephard. Not being smart enough to clear space and bust a gut to get into it. There should be no excuse for not doing any of those because they require no talent to do.

 

[The Dustbin]

if peverill didnt play today we would have never got back into the game. we would have lost by 79 instead of 29. he wins the ball at stoppages and although he might not be quick or his disposal is not class but at least he gets the thing. better than what the others can do right now. You need a balance in the midfield and at the moment we have too many recievers and not enough getters.

Peverill CAN NOT HIT A MOVING TARGET. His decision making in close and at stoppages was shocking. I lost count how many times he handballed over his head or just lost possession.

Every game he gets exposed badly by the opposition going forward. Just isn't quick enough to work back, so instead floats across the middle of the ground.

I'm not going to knock his courage or his commitment. Unfortunately if you miss targets you pay the price. Peverill is well into the red.

I'd be happy to build the midfield around one player. Jobe Watson. We don't need Peverill and Jobe in the midfield at the same time.

 

[Dr Moose]

Apart from all the macro-settings regarding recruiting, coaching, etc, how about concentrating on ball handling skills. Our turnovers today in contests and with hospital handballs was atrocious. Sorry to say that McPhee and Angus were the worst offenders IMO, but across the ground errors were appalling.

 

[Frederlick]

Actually u don't suck. One bad quarter. as usual you had agenuine crack.We played 1 quarter, pissed me.

 

[RED AND BLACK SOLDIER]

Apart from all the macro-settings regarding recruiting, coaching, etc, how about concentrating on ball handling skills. Our turnovers today in contests and with hospital handballs was atrocious. Sorry to say that McPhee and Angus were the worst offenders IMO, but across the ground errors were appalling.

How lovely was his handball to Nash running off half back when Nash had someone right on his tail and got tackled as soon as he recieved the ball, great vision McPhee, he had time to kick it himself but instead made a mess of it and passed it to Nash, just wondering, was that the turnover that ended up in a goal for Collingwood?

 

[ant555]

we suck.

Ive said it before, and it was clear as day again, our biggest area for improvement is in the blue collar area. We simply dont work hard enough for each other and off the ball.

That is all for today.

But isn't that how we got back into it?

We smashed them there in the third quarter.

It's numbers around the contest that kills us because we don't have enough run to get there.

I think that you are both right. You need to be working 100% in both areas all day and we simply dont do it all the time.

 

[ant555]

Wake up and smell the roses.

We have dropped our guard when it comes to recruiting and we are now starting to pay for it.

Forget about "missing" Hird, he's gone next year and the quicker everyone moves on and realizes that he is not the answer for us the better we will be in the long term.

Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher and Michael will not get any better and will probably only get worse as time goes on.

We need to take some pain NOW to avoid YEARS of it later.

Cut the list deeply and make some tough calls.
Replace the coach and some of his assistants
Consider poaching a top recruiter from another club.

Have no doubt, we are at a major crossroad and any mistakes now will cost us dearly

Merv you and i both predicted pretty much the same thing results during the pre season and i think you are close to the mark again . Until we make some tough decisions we will be left playing the same dumb unaccountable footy for some time to come . They simply need a pretty good broom at the end of the year.
Have a seriously good hard look at the list. I agree.
Replace the coach. Have been a bit 50/50 about it in the past but my mind is nearly made up. Agree time to start looking.
Consider poaching a top recruiter , yes i do agree we should always look at something like that but currently i am happy with the new structure we have put in place before last years draft.

 

[Smokin]

Ok, we have all slept on it (at least a bit) and Yea, when I say we suck, I dont mean in general, but in this area. Probably didnt want to sound as doom and gloomy as it did, but anyway.

I have continually said that this season was about development, not necessarily results, or ladder position etc. Now we have improved a heck of a lot this season, dont worry about that. And IMO we have a great launching pad for the coming seasons, however there are obviously still flaws in our game, some of which are continually there. These must be addressed if we want to continually improve as a unit.

How many inside 50 "contested" marks did they take that we should never have allowed? Not only this week, but think of recent weeks? How many times are we in position to make a clearance, only to not shepherd, or not work together only to cause a stoppage, or worse a turnover?

Look, as a thought and Im not and I dont want to bake the kid, but Nash is a prime example here. Yesterday, and especially against Footscray found himself in positions to force contests, arieally and at ground level, where he just wasnt good enough, committed enough or had the will enough to do it. I can think of at least 2 marking situations against the dogs where he probably wanted to mark instead of spoil and resulted in shots at goal. Now look at the Malthouse drilled kids - they are just as inexperienced as Nash, yet are so committed, so drilled and hard nosed in contested areas, it the backbone of their structure.

I can understand him being given the job on Thomas to start with, but lets be frank, he made Thomas look like a superstar in the first 10 minutes or whatever it was. To beat Thomas, the work is simply being with him. IMO he doesnt impress at all when not by himself, and McPhee, who is just in a horrible stretch of form right now, basically was able to beat and nulify him by simply being with him all the time. We need that Collingwoodness drilled into our younger players.

Another example from yesterday was in the first, where Didak was caught 3 against 1 at the top of their goalsquare, I cant remember now who, but Fletcher was there, and perhaps slattery as well. That ball came in high, long and gave Didak no chance - it was our ball to clear. What happens, we cant work it out properly, Didak scraps a bit - ball up. I cursed at that stage, IMO a horrible play by us, yet Essendon people around are clapping! What happens from the resulting ball up - Davis kicked a goal. Well done!

What irks, is that as Merv said, it's not like we cant do it; But it seems it is not drilled into us enough, or to a point where we can consistently do it. I think, or perhaps its blind faith that we are showing the classic signs of a team going somewhere. In patches, we are good in just about all areas but in certain areas, not enough to ensure results. Look, the past week, injuries (both not playing and playing) probably cost us genuine cracks at pretty good sides, including the benchmark of the competition.

I was thinking yesterday that gee, what would happen if someone like a Malthouse, or even Laidly taking this ship from here, someone who can instill that "take no prisoners - no excuses" type mentallity into EVERY game. Making it a backbone of the club. My gut feel is perhaps the current Sheedy is too soft in this area, and probably appreciates and ideals the "good football" aspect of the gane, and not this gritty, hard nosed area which has been a feature in past Sheedy sides. Football has changed a lot lately, and frankly, playing pleasing football doesnt rate anywhere anymore.

There is no doubt we had just as much talent and ability as Collingwood yesterday, but they are drilled and much more willed than us, and it showed it numerous contested situations yesterday - either at ground level or in the air.

We are getting there, this isnt doom and gloom, but we have to keep working, and this is an area which is a glaring weakness to me. We are already a hard team to beat, dont worry about that, yet geez, we can improve a lot. Not a horrible sign at all.

 

[stander]

We are getting there, this isnt doom and gloom, but we have to keep working, and this is an area which is a glaring weakness to me. We are already a hard team to beat, dont worry about that, yet geez, we can improve a lot. Not a horrible sign at all.

The Dons would improve a lot more if they played a bit more natural footy. They all wait to deliver to a no contest and in the end stuff it up anyway. How can a forward line of Lloyd, Lucas, Hille, Laycock and Bradley ( should have played ) let poor old McVeigh show the way in contests. They all drift away from the action. Lockyers two uncontested marks demonstrate how directionless the Dons are.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

What irks, is that as Merv said, it's not like we cant do it; But it seems it is not drilled into us enough, or to a point where we can consistently do it.

I reckon it boils down to us having too many manufactured footballers and not enough guys that are smart footballers.

Almost all of Collingwoods side are footballers first, athletes second ( good ones at that).

We have guys like Dyson, Lovett, NLM, Pev, McPhee who aren't the smartest footballers and it's these one percenters that they don't do which eventually takes it's toll.

 

[bomberbilly]

Peverill CAN NOT HIT A MOVING TARGET. His decision making in close and at stoppages was shocking. I lost count how many times he handballed over his head or just lost possession.

Every game he gets exposed badly by the opposition going forward. Just isn't quick enough to work back, so instead floats across the middle of the ground.

I'm not going to knock his courage or his commitment. Unfortunately if you miss targets you pay the price. Peverill is well into the red.

I'd be happy to build the midfield around one player. Jobe Watson. We don't need Peverill and Jobe in the midfield at the same time.

his handballing over the head is coughing up the ball at the moment. he has also been called for throwing in the last two games while attempting to handball over his head. what i cant stand about our team at the moment is that after a good play to bring the ball up the ground we ruine it by turning it over because we handball to someone who clearly is under too much pressure to dispose of the ball cleanly. We just dont play smart footy at all, too many little handballs in the first half just cost us dearly. Ramma should kick it every time, his footskills are a weapon.

 

[David_Hilley#19]

A solution to the contested situation would be to rest either hille or laycock in the backline and have them punch the ball unlike every1 of our defenders. Rocca is incredibly slow and hille would certainly be able to keep up with him and out-muscle him!!!

 

[monty1104]

What's the point of Hille or Laycock resting in the backline when we know they can take contested marks and kick fairly accurately at goal?

 

[David_Hilley#19]

What's the point of Hille or Laycock resting in the backline when we know they can take contested marks and kick fairly accurately at goal?

If we are already scoring goals in our forward line then lets stop them by throwing them in the backline.
Also it is more work pushing up the ground and leading in the forward line.

 

[monty1104]

But the thing is, Hille and Laycock are not defensive ruckmen. Can you seriously see Hille going into defence and doing a good defensive job? I would much prefer to see them rotating through the forward line. We have enough height in defence as it is before we put a ruckman down there.