News Coronavirus and the draft

[GUMBLETRON]

First step

Community football gets green light, training rules revealed

AFL Victoria is permitting community footballers to train in groups of 10 from Monday

www.afl.com.au

 

[rusman]

probably a bad idea.

Get each coach to give premiership predictions that’ll determine the draft (excluding their own team).

it is in their interest to be honest otherwise they give a better team a better pick

 

[Peel67skin]

What im seeing happening, due to contract situations, is that this year if a draft goes ahead each team will be allowed to have 2 picks, more if they need (considering nga and f/s), also lists will drop, BUT, over time to help deal with contract situations. example, teams may be told that this year lists will have to be cut back to 40, (so teams that go 2 picks in draft will have a minimum of 6/7 cut from their list) next year it will be 38 max and lists must be 35 thereafter. no cat b or rookie lists to exist after that and supplementary additions to be made at any time upon application to the league (due to long term injured or mid season retirements etc) with a huge possibility it will be on a waiver system with reverse ladder in place, available to be picked from anywhere, any league, any team. teams at state level SANFL, VFL, WAFL for example will not be bothered to much as it will even out as the players currently at afl level being cut from lists will flow down into these leagues making every team stronger anyway so a loss here and there (and not very often either) by players being called up as a supp list selection to an afl team will not hurt them as much as it would have in the past.

Is there a lower league? at least AFL games were played once compare to lower league (state and NAB). Semi pro players also depend on their other job to keep their AFL dream alive. Can they keep their other job and still play state league is my question .

 

[Johnny Bananas]

It's an 'absolute no-brainer': Bevo strong on draft age

Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge says the AFL should increase the draft age to 19

www.afl.com.au

Luke Beveridge adds his name to the list of coaches who think the draft age should be raised. Last week, Tony Bamford, SA's U18 championships coach, also voiced his support for this.

 

[andleanback]

It's an 'absolute no-brainer': Bevo strong on draft age

Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge says the AFL should increase the draft age to 19

www.afl.com.au

Luke Beveridge adds his name to the list of coaches who think the draft age should be raised. Last week, Tony Bamford, SA's U18 championships coach, also voiced his support for this.

I think a lot of people in the industry would have the same opinion. Bamford for one would’ve seen the benefits first hand last year, with Gould and Schoenberg having already completed year 12 before their draft year, so they had a whole year to concentrate on footy. With footy departments getting cut down, there will be a lot of good coaches rhat trickle down into the junior pathway system which will further benefit kids development for what ever level they get to.

 

[Smythe]

Is there a lower league? at least AFL games were played once compare to lower league (state and NAB). Semi pro players also depend on their other job to keep their AFL dream alive. Can they keep their other job and still play state league is my question .

well that is the quandary, where will it end. players good enough to hold their spot at that level will do so but.. if what i think happens then what you will find is that the lower leagues will not really have the elder statesmen in them anymore. playing lists at the penultimate level australia wide will have a decrease in age average and the flow on will spill out into local leagues.

 

[briztoon]

It's an 'absolute no-brainer': Bevo strong on draft age

Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge says the AFL should increase the draft age to 19

www.afl.com.au

Luke Beveridge adds his name to the list of coaches who think the draft age should be raised. Last week, Tony Bamford, SA's U18 championships coach, also voiced his support for this.

Twomey talking to recruiters, and most recruiters don’t want it raised.

 

[eDPS]

Twomey talking to recruiters, and most recruiters don’t want it raised.

No matter what it won’t be raised this year, if it gets raised it will be for next year because we don’t play a season this year

 

[briztoon]

No matter what it won’t be raised this year, if it gets raised it will be for next year because we don’t play a season this year

I think that’s a given.

 

[eDPS]

I think that’s a given.

If we do raise the draft age I’d like it to be planned years in advance, get a firm plan organised for all parties involved to plan for to make it work to the best it can possibly be.

Have it set for 2025 and build up whatever you need to make it a huge deal, my main hope is that they just don’t decide on a whim to raise the draft age without some serious planning done to make it as seamless as possible

 

[yaco55]

Many of the WA players finish Year 12 when they are 17, so they could wait two years to be eligible for the ND.

 

[briztoon]

Many of the WA players finish Year 12 when they are 17, so they could have two years to wait.

Same with QLD kids.

 

[Chaisa]

Same with QLD kids.

Same for NSW kids to a lesser extent.

Though I do support the move I think it will hurt those who aren't Vics. Two years out of school could be kind of problematic in the sense of it might cost players to the game, makes them more likely to go off the rails somewhat, etc.

 

[andleanback]

Same for NSW kids to a lesser extent.

Though I do support the move I think it will hurt those who aren't Vics. Two years out of school could be kind of problematic in the sense of it might cost players to the game, makes them more likely to go off the rails somewhat, etc.

Go off the rails? So being in an AFL system is the only thing stopping some kids from going off the rails. 2 years out of school would mean some kids would almost have a degree/ apprenticeship under their belt which would significantly help them get once their afl career is over, as many players struggle when they leave the system.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I personally think that future pick trades from last year (ie the North v Melbourne pick swap) should be held over to next year.

 

[philthy05]

There’s a bucketload of unanswered questions that these pro-raising the draft age campaigners never answer.

it might solve one problem (and that’s debatable) but it creates a dozen more.

every year 60-80 kids get drafted, go to clubs and play afl or reserves sides (WAFL sanfl vfl neafl)

where do they play if you raise the draft age?

If they stay in the nab league and sanfl under 18’s how does that work? Are there more teams? Or just less spots now?
An under 19’s competition? That doesn’t work. It’s costly and a piss weak league unless under agers come up which takes me back to creating more teams.

can they go up and play sanfl? Like thilthorpe already is? Can Lazzaro play in the vfl?

if part of the argument is waiting for their bodies to mature how are uni students / full time employed part time football playing 18yr olds better prepared than if they went into a full time afl program?

Are we prepared to lose players to other codes? We cannot offer a position to people like Luke Jackson who will have college scholarships or wil Parker having cricket to go to. If we can only offer them the “possibility” they get drafted in a years time after going to uni or getting a job it’s inevitable we lose players. It’s obvious other codes will take advantage to hunt those kids if a change was made.

The claim that players aren’t emotionally mature enough to go into the league..

a) is there a measurable leap in maturity made from 18-19 inherent in people that don’t go into an AFL system versus those that do?

there has never been any evidence provided and never will be because it’s hogwash.

how does the afl vindicate simultaneously raising the draft age claiming that kids are better off coming in later while having NGA academies around the league set up bringing kids in at 13 claiming they benefit from getting in early and we don’t lose them to other sports. The two policies are completely at odds.

if the argument is that kids get a year to establish a career alternative, what proof can be provided that kids can establish a career pathway in a year that would not be possible during their football career or after whether that comes at 22 or 32?

besides the fact that the vast majority of people I know made **** all progress into their careers by the age of 19 I’m unaware of a single career choice that couldn’t be made still at 19 after a year on an afl list.

I cannot see how someone could make the case that duursma was better prepared to chose a career for life after football before he was drafted by port than he is today.

If the issue is the stress of school while preparing for the draft what is the new proposal? Because swapping school for uni / work / bills is either no relief at all if you’re in a hard place coming out of school and a marginal improvement at best if you consider school really hard and life after graduation a breeze.

answer all those questions and show actual evidence for how these kids would be better off rather than anecdotal before making a monumental change that has many obvious downsides.

 

[Smythe]

There’s a bucketload of unanswered questions that these pro-raising the draft age campaigners never answer.

it might solve one problem (and that’s debatable) but it creates a dozen more.

every year 60-80 kids get drafted, go to clubs and play afl or reserves sides (WAFL sanfl vfl neafl)

where do they play if you raise the draft age?

If they stay in the nab league and sanfl under 18’s how does that work? Are there more teams? Or just less spots now?
An under 19’s competition? That doesn’t work. It’s costly and a piss weak league unless under agers come up which takes me back to creating more teams.

can they go up and play sanfl? Like thilthorpe already is? Can Lazzaro play in the vfl?

if part of the argument is waiting for their bodies to mature how are uni students / full time employed part time football playing 18yr olds better prepared than if they went into a full time afl program?

Are we prepared to lose players to other codes? We cannot offer a position to people like Luke Jackson who will have college scholarships or wil Parker having cricket to go to. If we can only offer them the “possibility” they get drafted in a years time after going to uni or getting a job it’s inevitable we lose players. It’s obvious other codes will take advantage to hunt those kids if a change was made.

The claim that players aren’t emotionally mature enough to go into the league..

a) is there a measurable leap in maturity made from 18-19 inherent in people that don’t go into an AFL system versus those that do?

there has never been any evidence provided and never will be because it’s hogwash.

how does the afl vindicate simultaneously raising the draft age claiming that kids are better off coming in later while having NGA academies around the league set up bringing kids in at 13 claiming they benefit from getting in early and we don’t lose them to other sports. The two policies are completely at odds.

if the argument is that kids get a year to establish a career alternative, what proof can be provided that kids can establish a career pathway in a year that would not be possible during their football career or after whether that comes at 22 or 32?

besides the fact that the vast majority of people I know made fu** all progress into their careers by the age of 19 I’m unaware of a single career choice that couldn’t be made still at 19 after a year on an afl list.

I cannot see how someone could make the case that duursma was better prepared to chose a career for life after football before he was drafted by port than he is today.

If the issue is the stress of school while preparing for the draft what is the new proposal? Because swapping school for uni / work / bills is either no relief at all if you’re in a hard place coming out of school and a marginal improvement at best if you consider school really hard and life after graduation a breeze.

answer all those questions and show actual evidence for how these kids would be better off rather than anecdotal before making a monumental change that has many obvious downsides.

I see where you are going with this, BUT, unfortunately you have shown your hand and asked a lot of questions here and poo-pooed them yourself. you argue against the pro-age lifting by saying they provide no evidence but then you say it wont work and its hogwash yet you provide no evidence for your own argument. kind of making it go around in circles aren't you? there are plenty of pros for and against. in regards to your, "where do they play" comment, if they are good enough of course they will be signed at the penultimate level, and it would weed out those not good enough, not ready physically or wanting it bad enough. it will be interesting to see which way they go with this, and the spill over of players if lists are cut short and/or draft age raised, and the flow on effect to the lower and even local leagues.

 

[philthy05]

I see where you are going with this, BUT, unfortunately you have shown your hand and asked a lot of questions here and poo-pooed them yourself. you argue against the pro-age lifting by saying they provide no evidence but then you say it wont work and its hogwash yet you provide no evidence for your own argument. kind of making it go around in circles aren't you? there are plenty of pros for and against. in regards to your, "where do they play" comment, if they are good enough of course they will be signed at the penultimate level, and it would weed out those not good enough, not ready physically or wanting it bad enough. it will be interesting to see which way they go with this, and the spill over of players if lists are cut short and/or draft age raised, and the flow on effect to the lower and even local leagues.

Poo pooed them? Lol.

I’ve raised issues and pointed out the problems.

evidence for my arguments? I’ve shown rational examples of logistical problems that require explanations of details to clarify.

Ie

if the draft age is raised and players don’t go onto afl lists to play afl and reserves where do they go?

do they play as overagers at Oakleigh, peel thunder and south Adelaide under 18’s? Then there is less spots in those sides available than in the past unless you create more teams. those players have to go somewhere that didn’t exist before if they are no longer aligned to afl clubs and bound to them and their reserves sides.

It’s an issue that hasn’t been addressed among the many others.

They are details that are important to the debate that anyone campaigning for the draft age to be raised needs to have some answers for.

 

[andleanback]

Poo pooed them? Lol.

I’ve raised issues and pointed out the problems.

evidence for my arguments? I’ve shown rational examples of logistical problems that require explanations of details to clarify.

Ie

if the draft age is raised and players don’t go onto afl lists to play afl and reserves where do they go?

do they play as overagers at Oakleigh, peel thunder and south Adelaide under 18’s? Then there is less spots in those sides available than in the past unless you create more teams. those players have to go somewhere that didn’t exist before if they are no longer aligned to afl clubs and bound to them and their reserves sides.

It’s an issue that hasn’t been addressed among the many others.

They are details that are important to the debate that anyone campaigning for the draft age to be raised needs to have some answers for.

Pretty simple solution....
nab league, sanfl, wafl colts etc become under 19 leagues. Obviously the best kids will play seniors but that already happens now.
u19 national championships
u17 national championships
Dont know where all this fear is coming from that so many players will be lost to the game, if anything it'll keep more talented kids in elite systems for longer. If afl lists are shortened wouldnt it be more beneficial to give all kids an extra year of development before the come into the system, with 3-4 year project players potentially being a thing of the past, giving talls an extra year to grow into their bodies.

 

[eDPS]

Pretty simple solution....
nab league, sanfl, wafl colts etc become under 19 leagues. Obviously the best kids will play seniors but that already happens now.
u19 national championships
u17 national championships
Dont know where all this fear is coming from that so many players will be lost to the game, if anything it'll keep more talented kids in elite systems for longer.

That sounds simple in theory but to organise something like that across all states I think it would need to be organised a few years in advance to it taking effect to give all involved enough time to have it work really well from the get go.

Im against raising the draft age but if it is to come then I want it done right

 

[philthy05]

Pretty simple solution....
nab league, sanfl, wafl colts etc become under 19 leagues. Obviously the best kids will play seniors but that already happens now.
u19 national championships
u17 national championships
Dont know where all this fear is coming from that so many players will be lost to the game, if anything it'll keep more talented kids in elite systems for longer.

that probably is the solution you would have to go with..

of course that’s asking every club in Australia to field another team yeah?

then with under 19’s, if you’re assuming that more players go up to state league then that under 19’s is a weakened competition right?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

where do they play if you raise the draft age?

can they go up and play sanfl? Like thilthorpe already is? Can Lazzaro play in the vfl?

You just answered your own question.

if part of the argument is waiting for their bodies to mature how are uni students / full time employed part time football playing 18yr olds better prepared than if they went into a full time afl program?

That isn't the argument. It's a straw man you created.

Are we prepared to lose players to other codes? We cannot offer a position to people like Luke Jackson who will have college scholarships or wil Parker having cricket to go to.

This is a fair point, but one year's salary being lower because they play in a state league rather than the AFL is not going to be a major factor. If it is, those kids' hearts clearly weren't in the game anyway.

a) is there a measurable leap in maturity made from 18-19 inherent in people that don’t go into an AFL system versus those that do?

Yes, it's called getting out of high school and making a personal decision about your future.

how does the afl vindicate simultaneously raising the draft age claiming that kids are better off coming in later while having NGA academies around the league set up bringing kids in at 13 claiming they benefit from getting in early and we don’t lose them to other sports. The two policies are completely at odds.

NGAs aren't full-time jobs for the players in them, they're in place alongside study.

if the argument is that kids get a year to establish a career alternative, what proof can be provided that kids can establish a career pathway in a year that would not be possible during their football career or after whether that comes at 22 or 32?

There isn't, because that was never the argument. The idea is that they see some of what the real world is like at 18, and do something that isn't football for a bit to get a sense of perspective and maturity rather than simply leaping into the AFL bubble.

If the issue is the stress of school while preparing for the draft what is the new proposal?

The issue isn't stress, it's that the draft can be a distraction from studies.

answer all those questions and show actual evidence for how these kids would be better off rather than anecdotal before making a monumental change that has many obvious downsides.

The irony is that half of your post is anecdotal, or making claims with no evidence.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

It's not a bad thing if players spend two years out of school and decide that actually they like what they're doing more than they would playing footy.

For every one of these kids you get another who lasts longer in the system when they do get drafted because they've got a more mature head on their shoulders.

 

[andleanback]

that probably is the solution you would have to go with..

of course that’s asking every club in Australia to field another team yeah?

then with under 19’s, if you’re assuming that more players go up to state league then that under 19’s is a weakened competition right?

To field another team, what extra team?
u16 become u17 and u18 become u19.

Isnt u18 already weakened in sa with many kids playing either reserves or seniors, not sure it will make a difference to current situation. In Victoria if they raised it to u19 all kids would stay in the competition and if anything make it stronger than it already is with kids not missing large chunks of the season to private school football.

 

[Smythe]

You just answered your own question.


That isn't the argument. It's a straw man you created.


This is a fair point, but one year's salary being lower because they play in a state league rather than the AFL is not going to be a major factor. If it is, those kids' hearts clearly weren't in the game anyway.


Yes, it's called getting out of high school and making a personal decision about your future.


NGAs aren't full-time jobs for the players in them, they're in place alongside study.


There isn't, because that was never the argument. The idea is that they see some of what the real world is like at 18, and do something that isn't football for a bit to get a sense of perspective and maturity rather than simply leaping into the AFL bubble.


The issue isn't stress, it's that the draft can be a distraction from studies.


The irony is that half of your post is anecdotal, or making claims with no evidence.

at least someone else saw it

 

[eDPS]

All this talk has given me an idea on what I would set up for a lift in the draft age, I’ll be nutting out the details later today but the plan would involve a national u19 comp tying it all with AFL clubs with the potential of all games being curtain raisers aswell