Cricket Discussion - Part 3

[philreich]

Another heavy loss by india, the gift that keeps on giving .

In terms of runs (408), it's their heaviest ever defeat. Very sweet!!!

 

[raptalia]

I noticed a profusion of English football club banners around the Perth Stadium. England football supporters are not noted for their good behavior around the rest of Europe and their supporters have often been banned from attending matches. I wonder if an element of English football hooliganism has infiltrated the Balmy Army?

‘The Barmy Army should be better than that’—Lehmann talks Sandpaper-gate legacy, 7 years on | Sporting News Australia

Former Australian Test player and coach Darren Lehmann has detailed the daily abuse he still receives from England fans following the infamous ‘Sandpaper-gate’ match in 2018.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[1954]

In terms of runs (408), it's their heaviest ever defeat. Very sweet!!!

It was `very sweet' to see those self entitled campaigners get their arses kicked again!

I didn't see the Indian 2nd innings because it was over before I switched on the tv, but two things I noted from the first was how quickly their supporters disappeared when they were facing that huge first innings deficit, and the Saffer bowlers and fieldsmen getting straight into the face of Siraj when he came to the wicket!

 

[philreich]

Exactly 11 years since Phil Hughes died!!!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

When 30 founding members quickly become 300 on the 1994/95 tour and then 3,000 within a couple of years, General (David) Peacock and the others running the show, could keep them all in line with why the Barmy Army was set up and its spirit of fun at the cricket.

30 years on when you get 35,000 - 40,000 members, its harder to control and keep the spirit of the earlier times.

The English Cricket authorities didn't warmly embrace the Barmy Army in its early days, fearing they might become soccer hooligan type crowds. But they soon won over the authorities because they were good humoured and very different to soccer hooligans / lads, and the authorities and the English team saw them as good for the team and the game. They seem to be in better spirits when they were losing in that first decade or two.

David Peacock is making his 8th and final tour with the Barmy Army. He missed the 2021/22 Covid affected series. He's had enough after 30 years and its a lot more work to keep the Army under control.

 

[Grave Danger]

Ha - WBBL double header at Adelaide Oval today - first game between Brisbane and Sydney Pinks abandoned without a ball bowled, BoM radar not looking flash for the Adelaide v Sydney Lime Greens due to start in less than an hour.

 

[philreich]

Ha - WBBL double header at Adelaide Oval today - first game between Brisbane and Sydney Pinks abandoned without a ball bowled, BoM radar not looking flash for the Adelaide v Sydney Lime Greens due to start in less than an hour.

Which is pretty much all the BBL deserves .

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Mark Wood injured already ... after 11 overs of Test cricket

England fast bowler Mark Wood is set to miss the crucial second Ashes Test in Brisbane because of concerns over his left knee.

The Ashes 2025-26: England pace bowler Mark Wood set to miss second Test

England fast bowler Mark Wood is set to miss the crucial second Ashes Test in Brisbane because of concerns over his left knee.

www.bbc.com

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Mark Wood injured already ... after 11 overs of Test cricket

England fast bowler Mark Wood is set to miss the crucial second Ashes Test in Brisbane because of concerns over his left knee.

The Ashes 2025-26: England pace bowler Mark Wood set to miss second Test

England fast bowler Mark Wood is set to miss the crucial second Ashes Test in Brisbane because of concerns over his left knee.

www.bbc.com

I'll repeated what I said 2 or 3 weeks ago in this thread - Wood is as injury prone as Fantasia was.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The other day on Kayo I watched the Vaughan/Lloyd/Cook/Tufnell/Gilchrist podcast/vodcast Stick to Cricket and they were doing it from Perth Stadium on what would have been day 5.

Alistair Cook said Crowley gets out 41% of the time between 0 and 9 and he has batted 100+ times in test cricket.

My initial thought was wow that's bloody high.

Next though was Ken Rutherford of NZ, who in the mid 80's made his debut as a 19 year old protégé in the West Indies against their bloody fearsome pace attack, batted 7 times in that series and made 12 runs, he made 3, maybe 4 ducks including a pair on debut and all up played about 60 tests, was captain of NZ and finished his career with around 2,500 runs and an average of about 28, would give Crawley a run for his money.

I then thought of Marvan Atapattu who at one stage in the mid 00's had made the equal 4th highest number of 200+ test scores 6 of them, behind Bradman 12, Lara 9 and Wally Hammond 7, but had made all his double centuries against the Zimbos and the Bangers and was poor against top teams and had made 22 ducks, the most by a player who batted between 1 and 6.

So I couldn't help myself and did a Statsguru query. I asked for batsmen's scores between 0 and 9 and batted positions 1-7. There are 2163 results, but I looked at the first 200, as that covered a fair chunk of the 348 players who have made 2000 test runs or more. The results were sorted by Runs Scored in those innings as that was the only really useful category.

So I dumped the data into a spreadsheet and calculated the % of innings scored between 0 and 9 inc not outs, and the % of innings scored a duck. You can see all the players at this link below, but I only crunched the data for 200 and those 200 had made 94 runs or more in their 0-9 innings.

4 notable players who made 6000+ test runs didn't end up in those first 200 were:
Len Hutton 138 innings 25 innings 0-9, 1 not out, 94 runs scored, 5 ducks - 18.1% 0-9, 3.6% Ducks was 201st player
Rohan Kanhai 137 innings 26 innings 0-9, 2 not outs, 87 runs scored, 7 ducks - 18.9% 0-9, 5.1% Ducks
Mike Hussey 137 innings 30innings 0-9, 0 not out, 78 runs scores, 12 ducks - 21.9% 0-9, 8.76% Ducks which is high
Don Bradman 80 innings 14 innings 0-9, 0 not out, 31 runs scored, 7 ducks - 17.5% 0-9, 8.75% Ducks which is high

Most batsmen in that 200 have 26% +or- 3% of their innings are 0-9 scores and 6% +or- 2% are duck innings. Sobers was 20% and 7.5% ducks and Wally Hammond 19.7% and 2.9% ducks. They were the 2 lowest % of total innings in the 200.

For some reason Statsguru counts a Did Not Bat innings as a match that the player made 0, even though they only batted once and made say 40 runs. For Steve Waugh Statsguru say he played 91 tests ( where he mad 0-9, absent injured or a DNB) but only had 65 innings of 0-9 as an example of that quirk in the Statsguru query set up.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

My cut off point in the snapshot of my spreadsheet below, is 36.0% of innings where the player makes between 0 and 9 as that captures Marvan Atapattu at 36.6%. I was surprised Mitch Marsh was so high. Not surprised by 3 Bangladeshis being in the top 5 and that several of the current / recent West Indian batsmen make the list.

Ken Rutherford's 16 ducks in 98 innings at 16.3% is the worst % of duck innings in that 200 players. Clive Lloyd for example had 4 ducks in 175 innings and Mark Taylor 5 in 186 innings.

There are other players past the 200 mark I had a quick look at who would be added to the this list of 36%+ but I only dug so far.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Get some sleep REH

 

[240volt]

Get some sleep REH

Didn’t you know he has the ability to post in his sleep.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This "Sportica video explores the history of Bazball, examining England's dramatic transformation. The video analysis looks at various matches, highlighting both successes and failures. Discover how pitch conditions and player performance impact this controversial cricket strategy."

Basically it works on flat pitches and not on pitches that have a lot of bounce and juice or a bunsen burner in the sub continent.

Its the best video I've seen on the history of Bazball - why it was in introduced after Joe Roots dismal failed tenure as captain the last couple of years he was captain, losing 4 consecutive series, how it shocked the opposition nations, and then has just become a 50/50 system and says the poms have just become flat track bullies.

McCullum introduced a new philosophy to English test cricket teams -
Stop fearing failure.
Stop obsessing over technical perfection and stats, and
Start valuing instinct and intent.

It goes thru most of the 37 tests Stokes has captained since he took over full time in 2022 ( he captained a 1 off test in 2020 v WI) , but not all individual tests, but he does goes the important series. The bloke sounds South African to me unless its an AI generated voice with a non standard AI accent.

The 5th test against India at Edgbaston at the 4 minute mark is the 5th test that was delayed by Covid for 12 months. Root was captain of the 4 tests played in 2021 and Stokes the captain in the 5th test after the NZ series and England made 3/378 to win in 76 overs and Bazball really took off.

Some great lines in the video that I cut and pasted from the transcript.

• "Conditions always matter."
• They adapted for Pakistan series in 2022-23 won 3-0 - "then just drifted back into all or nothing cricket."
• After losing 1-4 to India in 2023-24 - "proving the Bazball thrives on flat decks, but collapses instantly on surfaces demanding technique, patience, and defensive skill."

- "England weren't revolutionaries at all. They were flat track bullies and very good ones at that. The problem is that the English setup leaned into this identity so fully, that they convinced themselves it was a universal tactic."

- "They bought into their hype so much that they convinced themselves that aggression needs no adaptation, that tempo went absolutely everywhere and that mindset defies statistics and even analysis."

- "Every time they faced a decent opposition attack on wickets with some life in them, they reverted back to the England of old. They showed no backbone, relied on one great player, and would ultimately fall short."

- "In innings where Joe Root scores runs and occupies the crease, the entire English team prospers. It's because England, for all their Bazball bravado, still revolve around one player and one player alone. That man is Joe Root."

- "To win everywhere, you must adapt everywhere. And Australia did it in the 2000s and so did South Africa."

- "The only way England are going to win on spicy Australian pitches is by tempering Bazball. If they can't do that, then they can expect to lose every test."

- "To answer the question of this video, Bazball isn't bullshit, but the belief that it works universally, absolutely is"

Glen McGrath and his standard Oz will win 5-0, might come up trumps again.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Vale Robin Smith.

Passed away in Perth on Tuesday. One very tough and very courageous player. Made 500+ against Oz in 1989 ashes series, when poms capitulated, he had only played 3 or 4 tests before that series and he always stood up to the mighty West Indians.

He made his debut when he was 26 after migrating from South Africa and serving out the 4 year qualifying period.

In the next series after 1989 ashes, England went to the Caribbean and Courtney Walsh hit him in the jaw, he didn't have a grill on his helmet - broke it, but it wasn't diagnosed until later - and kept batting. He was also hit in the finger that innings and broke that as well. Not surprisingly he didn't bat in the second innings.

‘He was a batter ahead of his time’: Robin Smith, former England cricketer, dies aged 62

Robin Smith, the former Hampshire batter who scored more than 6,000 runs for England between 1988 and 1996, has died at the age of 62

www.theguardian.com

Tributes have been paid to Robin Smith, whose swashbuckling batting and fearlessness at the crease lit up English cricket in an era when it often languished in the doldrums, following his death at the age of 62.

Smith played 62 Tests for England between 1988 to 1996, averaging 43.67. But it was the sight of him taking the fight to the fastest pace bowlers of his generation that will live longest in the memory.

His highest Test score of 175, against West Indies in Antigua in 1994, came against a bowling attack led by Curtly Ambrose and Courtney Walsh, who took 924 Test wickets between them. Yet, in the same game that Brian Lara hit a Test record score of 375, the majestic Smith smashed 26 fours and three sixes.

His best year came in 1991, when he scored 675 runs at an average of 67.5 and hit a brilliant 148 against West Indies. One of his England teammates, Mark Ramprakash, told the Guardian that while Smith was a phenomenal batsman, he was an even better person and teammate.

“There’s his cricket, the way he played as a batsman, which was to be hugely admired in an era of great fast bowlers,” he said. “And then there’s the person, who was more admirable still.

.......

In a statement, the family said: “It is with the deepest and most profound sense of sadness and loss that we must announce the passing of Robin Arnold Smith, beloved father of Harrison and Margaux and cherished brother of Christopher. Robin died unexpectedly at his South Perth apartment on Monday 1 December. The cause of his death is at present unknown.

“Since his retirement from the game in 2004 his battles with alcohol and mental health have been well documented but these should not form the basis of speculation about the cause of death which will be determined at postmortem investigation.”

Smith, who was known as “the Judge” because his thick wiry hairy resembled a judge’s wig, was also a stalwart in England’s one-day team, playing in 71 internationals including the 1992 World Cup final.

He was, said Richard Thompson, the England & Wales Cricket Board chairman in a tribute, a “batter ahead of his time”.

 

[raptalia]

Sad news re Robin Smith. He was a gifted batsman and one of a contingent of South African ex pats who left the RSA in the apartheid era. Sad to hear that his death was largely self inflicted as 62 is too young to die. I didn't realise that he had immigrated and was living in Perth.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Cricinfo's story on Robin Smith's passing - highlighting some of his great innings'.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/robin-smith-former-england-great-dies-aged-62-1514081

some words from ex teammates

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[Grave Danger]

He's a Pom himself, isn't he? Like Lachie Neale does against Port, Inglis usually tears England a new one when he plays against them.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

He's a Pom himself, isn't he? Like Lachie Neale does against Port, Inglis usually tears England a new one when he plays against them.

He has batted 6 times against England, in 4 ODIs and 2 T20Is and only made 1 score above 50, a very impressive 120 n.o. in the Champions Trophy earlier this year.

 

[240volt]

He's a Pom himself, isn't he? Like Lachie Neale does against Port, Inglis usually tears England a new one when he plays against them.

For me Webster looked as good as anyone against India.
I understand Green the Golden boy has replaced him but surely he’s done enough to be in front of Inglis.

 

[Grave Danger]

For me Webster looked as good as anyone against India.
I understand Green the Golden boy has replaced him but surely he’s done enough to be in front of Inglis.

There's been noise about Mitch Marsh being a chance inclusion at some stage too, which would also give Webster some concerns.

 

[240volt]

There's been noise about Mitch Marsh being a chance inclusion at some stage too, which would also give Webster some concerns.

Yep he’s in the WA side to play the Vics.
If the batsman fail this test match and he makes runs they might roll him out again for Adelaide.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

For me Webster looked as good as anyone against India.
I understand Green the Golden boy has replaced him but surely he’s done enough to be in front of Inglis.

Yeah Webster has just looked too good to keep out of the side. I know there are team balance concerns with playing two all-rounders but there simply has to be a spot for him.

 

[philreich]

Yeah Webster has just looked too good to keep out of the side. I know there are team balance concerns with playing two all-rounders but there simply has to be a spot for him.

And Webster can also bowl spin if needed - Lyon doesn't need to play.