Cricket Thread: Ashes done, 4-1

[Mego Red]

It's coming!

What do you think? Are the Poms a chance? Could we go past the semis at the T20 World Cup? Will Travis Head get selected this year? Is Jake Carder the import the Redbacks needed?

 

[Peter Doherty]

They are going to select a 35 yo Khawaja, ridiculous.

 

[Mego Red]

They're playing an Australia vs Australia A game before the first test, happening here in Brisbane Dec 1.

Possible lineups -

AUSTRALIA:
Warner
Khawaja
Labuschagne
Smith
Head
Green
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

Australia A:
Harris
Street
Pacovski
Maddinson
M Marsh
Carey
Neser
Abbott
J.Richardson
Boland
Swepson

 

[Mego Red]

They are going to select a 35 yo Khawaja, ridiculous.

You play the best 11 for an Ashes test, even if they're 45.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Is Pucovski going to be able to have a career?

 

[Vader]

They are going to select a 35 yo Khawaja, ridiculous.

The problem is that we basically don't have any batsmen under the age of 30 who are capable of making any runs, even at shield level - and the one who does (Pucovski) keeps getting concussed every 3rd game he plays.

It's all very well to be critical of them going back to the same dry well, over & over again, and I don't disagree with you, but what other alternatives are there?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I like Khawaja in Australia

In English conditions or spinning conditions not so much

 

[Mego Red]

Is Pucovski going to be able to have a career?

I think he deserves the chance.

It's a frustrating injury, because it's not like a year out of the game is going to help him. It's just bad luck, and maybe some bad technique.

 

[Peter Doherty]

The problem is that we basically don't have any batsmen under the age of 30 who are capable of making any runs, even at shield level - and the one who does (Pucovski) keeps getting concussed every 3rd game he plays.

It's all very well to be critical of them going back to the same dry well, over & over again, and I don't disagree with you, but what other alternatives are there?

Same issue with SA, same players fail then get rotated through.

 

[Vader]

Australia's fast bowling stocks look pretty good for the future, and we're usually OK for spinners - but where is the next generation of batsmen?

 

[1990crow]

Australia's fast bowling stocks look pretty good for the future, and we're usually OK for spinners - but where is the next generation of batsmen?

Top tier:
Cameron Green
Will Pucovski
Marnus Labuschagne (27)
Travis Head (27)

Second chance:
Nic Maddinson (Ave 40) 29 y.o.

Promising:
Tim Ward (Ave 43) 23 y.o.
Bryce Street (Ave 39) 23 y.o.

This is cricket. Being young isn't necessarily going to help you bat.
Steve Smith still has years left.

 

[bigman]

why is it so hard to see Redbacks team for shield games. Not in Advertiser or before the last hour on the SACA website which has WA game as last update. Very poor.

 

[Scorpus]

Please don't move this thread to the backyard where it will die because only a fraction of the board visits there

 

[bigman]

team up; Liam Scott in and Lehmann out. Winter in and Doggett out. No Leggie - Lloyd Pope not in. Plenty of medium pacers but no spinners. Rain delay

 

[Vader]

Top tier:
Cameron Green
Will Pucovski
Marnus Labuschagne (27)
Travis Head (27)

Second chance:
Nic Maddinson (Ave 40) 29 y.o.

Promising:
Tim Ward (Ave 43) 23 y.o.
Bryce Street (Ave 39) 23 y.o.

This is cricket. Being young isn't necessarily going to help you bat.
Steve Smith still has years left.

Green & Labuschagne are quality. Pucovski is too, but his repeated concussions mean that he's never available for selection. If Head is the next best, then we're in a world of trouble. Maddinson isn't close.

I don't know enough about Ward & Street to comment, hopefully they'll make their way into the team sooner rather than later.

Steve Smith will be around for a while, but Warner is 35 - and neither Head nor Khawaja are Test standard.

 

[PoholkMe10]

Green & Labuschagne are quality. Pucovski is too, but his repeated concussions mean that he's never available for selection. If Head is the next best, then we're in a world of trouble. Maddinson isn't close.

I don't know enough about Ward & Street to comment, hopefully they'll make their way into the team sooner rather than later.

Steve Smith will be around for a while, but Warner is 35 - and neither Head nor Khawaja are Test standard.

Heads averaging 40 in test cricket, averaged 70 in shield cricket last year and has made plenty of runs already this year (avg 50 in shield so far, 92 in one dayers). The criticism of head just isn't based in reality, he's in the best 6 batters without question. Perfect at no. 6 in tests imo, Green at 5.

 

[Vader]

So I just looked up Ward & Street on baggygreen.

Ward averages 43.6, but he's only played 4x First Class games, so it's a very small sample size.
Street has a FC average just under 40 (39.46), but his List A average is less complimentary at 30.33.

As a general rule, players who average 40 in FC cricket will average around 30 in Tests. Test batsmen should be averaging 50+ at Shield level, and there are very few of those these days.

 

[Vader]

Heads averaging 40 in test cricket, averaged 70 in shield cricket last year and has made plenty of runs already this year (avg 50 in shield so far, 92 in one dayers). The criticism of head just isn't based in reality, he's in the best 6 batters without question. Perfect at no. 6 in tests imo, Green at 5.

I don't debate that he's in the best 6 batsmen in the country right now - but that's a condemnation of our current batting stocks, not a credit to Head.

Head's stats are massively biased due to one great series against Sri Lanka, whose team was barely District standard, where he averaged 151. His record against real opposition is far less flattering:

• England - 27.28
• India - 29.90
• Pakistan - 29.20
• New Zealand - 42.60

In contrast, Labuschagne averages 50+ against England & India, 70+ against Pakistan, 90+ against NZ. He had a surprisingly poor series against Sri Lanka (30.33), but even his worst is still better than Head's results against most countries.

 

[1990crow]

I don't debate that he's in the best 6 batsmen in the country right now - but that's a condemnation of our current batting stocks, not a credit to Head.

Head's stats are massively biased due to one great series against Sri Lanka, whose team was barely District standard, where he averaged 151. His record against real opposition is far less flattering:

• England - 27.28
• India - 29.90
• Pakistan - 29.20
• New Zealand - 42.60

In contrast, Labuschagne averages 50+ against England & India, 70+ against Pakistan, 90+ against NZ. He had a surprisingly poor series against Sri Lanka (30.33), but even his worst is still better than Head's results against most countries.

Personally think averaging 40 and batting at 6 is better than most eras. Too harsh IMO.

As for rule that if you average 40 FC, it's 30 at test level doesn't apply anymore. Maybe 10 years ago but now it seems to be far more equivalent.
Players that have averaged 40 at FC level have recently done about the same at test level.

 

[Scorpus]

Personally think averaging 40 and batting at 6 is better than most eras. Too harsh IMO.

As for rule that if you average 40 FC, it's 30 at test level doesn't apply anymore. Maybe 10 years ago but now it seems to be far more equivalent.
Players that have averaged 40 at FC level have recently done about the same at test level.

It's also disproven by Travis Head himself, who averages 40 at FC level and 39 at Test level

Of course there are also plenty of others like Khawaja, Handscomb and Burns but some counter examples (eg Marcus Harris)

 

[Vader]

Personally think averaging 40 and batting at 6 is better than most eras. Too harsh IMO.

As for rule that if you average 40 FC, it's 30 at test level doesn't apply anymore. Maybe 10 years ago but now it seems to be far more equivalent.
Players that have averaged 40 at FC level have recently done about the same at test level.

It's really not. It's a fairly basic requirement.

Here's a list of Australian #6 batsmen, by average - minimum qualification 20 innings at #6:
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...=innings;team=2;template=results;type=batting

This list has only 14 players, of which 7 averaged 40+. Every one of those players had test careers which lasted 8+ years. None of the batsmen who averaged less than 40 lasted more than 6 years, most were 5 or less.

Reducing the minimum qualification from 20 innings to 10 adds a further 27 players:
https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...=innings;team=2;template=results;type=batting

Of these, only 6 average 40+, with 21 averaging less than 40.

The conclusion here is that players are given time to establish themselves, and those who can't average 40+ are moved on (or shuffled to another position in the batting order - e.g. Katich), while those who can are kept around for much longer.

** Note that these averages (and career lengths) are for innings batted at #6. They do not include innings batted in other positions.

 

[Vader]

It's also disproven by Travis Head himself, who averages 40 at FC level and 39 at Test level

Of course there are also plenty of others like Khawaja, Handscomb and Burns but some counter examples (eg Marcus Harris)

Head averages less than 30 against Test opposition, once you exclude the 2-test series he played against Sri Lanka - who fielded a team which would have struggled at District Cricket level.

 

[Jinglebells32]

Street and Lauberschagne both out for ducks to Paris.

 

[Jinglebells32]

Head averages less than 30 against Test opposition, once you exclude the 2-test series he played against Sri Lanka - who fielded a team which would have struggled at District Cricket level.

He will average a lot more than 30 given a consistent run in the side.

 

[Scorpus]

Head averages less than 30 against Test opposition, once you exclude the 2-test series he played against Sri Lanka - who fielded a team which would have struggled at District Cricket level.

He also faces shit opposition in FC cricket at times