News Crows Documentary?

[Slippery Pete]

Port had 49 tackles to 38 and 432 possessions to 301.

There goes that theory.

There’s always that one person who comes in and goes “but my grandma smoked all her life and lived to 140!”

Thanks for being that person.

 

[Slippery Pete]

So you would think Richmond would be top of the class yes?

Nope far from it.

AFL Statistics Team Rankings for Season 2020

AFL Statistics Team Rankings for Season 2020.

www.footywire.com

We’re third

 

[Mutineer]

We’re third

Exactly because the other teams always got the ball and our players defending our man instead of going the ball is there for all to see. See Chayce Jones and Jackson Hately this pre-season....watching their man instead of the ball.

 

[MRB37]

So you would think Richmond would be top of the class yes?

Nope far from it.

AFL Statistics Team Rankings for Season 2020

AFL Statistics Team Rankings for Season 2020.

www.footywire.com

Pressure points are more than tackles though.

"Points are awarded for corralling (1.2), chasing (1.5), closing (2.75) and physical pressure (3.75)."

Also I believe not all tackles count towards pressure points, but do count as pressure acts. A tackle is a tackle, but doesn't count towards pressure points if the opposition disposes of the ball in the tackle.

You get one "pressure act" for doing any one of those per the opposition disposing of the ball, but the points are then worked out partly on what that pressure caused.

I remember when we played off in the GF Richmond were the #1 pressure side, we were #2. If we were to see how many pressure points we get from our tackles I imagine it would probably be below par.

 

[Mutineer]

Pressure points are more than tackles though.

"Points are awarded for corralling (1.2), chasing (1.5), closing (2.75) and physical pressure (3.75)."

Also I believe not all tackles count towards pressure points, but do count as pressure acts. A tackle is a tackle, but doesn't count towards pressure points if the opposition disposes of the ball in the tackle.

You get one "pressure act" for doing any one of those per the opposition disposing of the ball, but the points are then worked out partly on what that pressure caused.

I remember when we played off in the GF Richmond were the #1 pressure side, we were #2. If we were to see how many pressure points we get from our tackles I imagine it would probably be below par.

I had great hopes for Matthew Nicks but I'm starting to get a Neil Craig Crowbots feel about his coaching at this point.

 

[Golumless]

So you would think Richmond would be top of the class yes?

Nope far from it.

AFL Statistics Team Rankings for Season 2020

AFL Statistics Team Rankings for Season 2020.

www.footywire.com

Top of the class in intercepts though. Their pressure is brutal enough it's creating mistakes and opportunities to hurt on the rebound.

Football has been pretty clear about the requirements to be successful. You need a suffocating defence if you want silverware.

 

[Mutineer]

Top of the class in intercepts though. Their pressure is brutal enough it's creating mistakes and opportunities to hurt on the rebound.

Intercepts because they're not afraid to come off their man...

 

[Slippery Pete]

I remember when we played off in the GF Richmond were the #1 pressure side, we were #2. If we were to see how many pressure points we get from our tackles I imagine it would probably be below par.

So you had two sides who weren’t too far apart (1 & 2) in defensive prowess, but look at the result.

P.S - Tackle count that day : Adelaide 70, Richmond 67

 

[Golumless]

Intercepts because they're not afraid to come off their man...

Teams don't reliably generate intercepts just because they're brave enough to come off their man, that's just one component of it. It's all well and good to be willing, but if the opposition has time to avoid you and other options to use, you'll never get anywhere with that skill. To reliably generate it, you need a method to make sure the ball coming into your defensive areas are mostly poor quality and predictable. That's done by either forcing slow ball movement, or by forcing the other team to bomb the ball forwards in a contested situation. Both inevitably come down to how aggressive you are hunting the ball carrier when able to, and how well set up you are behind the ball. Tackling, intercepting, structure and organisation etc are apart of what you're trying to achieve with team defence, to control how the opposition moves the ball.

It's very easy to set up a loose defender near Tex if you know the midfield will revert to just bombing it at him and hoping for the best when they're under pressure. You'll get rewarded for that all day long as an example of this. I'm sure you'll have a few flashbacks of Geelong and Hawthorn being able to do this to us over the years. I definitely did.

 

[Mutineer]

Teams don't reliably generate intercepts just because they're brave enough to come off their man, that's just one component of it. It's all well and good to be willing, but if the opposition has time to avoid you and other options to use, you'll never get anywhere with that skill. To reliably generate it, you need a method to make sure the ball coming into your defensive areas are mostly poor quality and predictable. That's done by either forcing slow ball movement, or by forcing the other team to bomb the ball forwards in a contested situation. Both inevitably come down to how aggressive you are hunting the ball carrier when able to. Tackling, intercepting, structure and organisation etc are apart of what you're trying to achieve with team defence, to control how the opposition moves the ball.

It's very easy to set up a loose defender near Tex if you know the midfield will revert to just bombing it at him and hoping for the best when they're under pressure. You'll get rewarded for that all day long as an example of this. I'm sure you'll have a few flashbacks of Geelong and Hawthorn being able to do this to us over the years. I definitely did.

I'm starting to see the rise of Crowbots again unfortunately...players devoid of any all out attack and flair.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I've seen this happen to new coaches before. They come in and try to teach defense and their club forgets how to attack.

 

[marvin]

Port had 49 tackles to 38 and 432 possessions to 301.

There goes that theory.

It's not just one game.

In 2020, Port won the possession count 14 times and the tackle count 14 times. Adelaide won the possession count 7 times and the tackle count twice.

 

[Slippery Pete]

It's not just one game.

In 2020, Port won the possession count 14 times and the tackle count 14 times. Adelaide won the possession count 7 times and the tackle count twice.

Didn’t someone post a stat that showed we rated third on tackles?

 

[Thetrader15]

Didn’t someone post a stat that showed we rated third on tackles?

yeah, but that was also only for one game.

 

[Scorpus]

yeah, but that was also only for one game.

No we were third in average tackles for the entire 2020 season

 

[Thetrader15]

It's not just one game.

In 2020, Port won the possession count 14 times and the tackle count 14 times. Adelaide won the possession count 7 times and the tackle count twice.

That almost corresponds with the number of games won by each team last year.

Tackling and defensive pressure is so important these days, it's what causes turnovers and turnovers = goals.

AFL | Stats That Matter - Defence Wins Premierships

Most team-sports the world over have adopted some form of the ‘defence wins championships’ mantra. Today, we take a look at what defence has traditionally meant for AFL, what role it assumes in the modern game, while also speculating what's coming up

www.statsinsider.com.au

 

[DJ75]

Thats not how you teach a young team.

But it is how you babysit a bunch of no-hopers in the hope of minimising the extent to which they embarrass themselves.

Congratulations on being 100% incorrect. It is a rare, but impressive sight.

 

[DJ75]

I see winning a contested ball as an offensive quality.

But regardless, there were some references made about midfields not running both ways...

Such as this...



A play involving all three of those blokes usually does not result in needing to run the other way. That’s the whole point, that’s how you win games.

When Dusty Martin has the football do you reckon his team mates are thinking “Gee we better prepare to run the other way here...”

Really? Because post 98, when those 3 were at their peak, how many flags did we win?

Dusty can run forward sure, but if the whole midfield gets ahead of the ball, you start losing.

 

[jackster83]

No we were third in average tackles for the entire 2020 season

How did we rank in terms of tackles against?

It's similar to clearances where the differential tells a better story than your raw clearance numbers.

 

[Thetrader15]

Teams don't reliably generate intercepts just because they're brave enough to come off their man, that's just one component of it. It's all well and good to be willing, but if the opposition has time to avoid you and other options to use, you'll never get anywhere with that skill. To reliably generate it, you need a method to make sure the ball coming into your defensive areas are mostly poor quality and predictable. That's done by either forcing slow ball movement, or by forcing the other team to bomb the ball forwards in a contested situation. Both inevitably come down to how aggressive you are hunting the ball carrier when able to, and how well set up you are behind the ball. Tackling, intercepting, structure and organisation etc are apart of what you're trying to achieve with team defence, to control how the opposition moves the ball.

It's very easy to set up a loose defender near Tex if you know the midfield will revert to just bombing it at him and hoping for the best when they're under pressure. You'll get rewarded for that all day long as an example of this. I'm sure you'll have a few flashbacks of Geelong and Hawthorn being able to do this to us over the years. I definitely did.

Correct. Someone said that Richmond focus on putting pressure on the player with the ball, but then really hunt the 2nd and 3rd receivers. They are usually flat footed (especially when you play against a Crows midfield), so are 90% of the time going to turn the ball over, either by dropping it or an errant handball.

This needs to be a systematic approach, as soon as you go to the ball carrier, you also have to go to the 2nd and 3rd as well, with a zone set up behind in case one of the tackles doesn't stick. This is 'team defence' and what Nicks is on about. In this case, tackle numbers aren't the be all and end all, but turnovers are.

The corral approach we have taken doesn't work, it just gives the player with the ball too much time to make an easy execution.

When you make turnover, it's then all out attack.

Perhaps it would have been better identified as turnovers are what we want to build, rather than defence.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Really? Because post 98, when those 3 were at their peak, how many flags did we win?

Dusty can run forward sure, but if the whole midfield gets ahead of the ball, you start losing.

Are you really arguing that a midfield comprising Ricciuto, McLeod and Goodwin is not an elite midfield because they’re all too offensive?

There’s many reasons we didn’t win flags post 98, but the performances of those three isn’t one of them.

 

[marvin]

How did we rank in terms of tackles against?

It's similar to clearances where the differential tells a better story than your raw clearance numbers.

According to afltables, 905 tackles for, 1055 tackles against.

 

[DJ75]

Correct. Someone said that Richmond focus on putting pressure on the player with the ball, but then really hunt the 2nd and 3rd receivers. They are usually flat footed (especially when you play against a Crows midfield), so are 90% of the time going to turn the ball over, either by dropping it or an errant handball.

This needs to be a systematic approach, as soon as you go to the ball carrier, you also have to go to the 2nd and 3rd as well, with a zone set up behind in case one of the tackles doesn't stick. This is 'team defence' and what Nicks is on about. In this case, tackle numbers aren't the be all and end all, but turnovers are.

The corral approach we have taken doesn't work, it just gives the player with the ball too much time to make an easy execution.

When you make turnover, it's then all out attack.

Perhaps it would have been better identified as turnovers are what we want to build, rather than defence.

This is the old Neil Craig approach. It did work for a little while as teams banged the ball forward and we zoned off to pick them off.

Eventually teams started using the extra time to hit up shorter kicks and then they waltzed through our defences. It's amazing we still favour this approach as you see very few other teams do it these days.

 

[Sanders]

I mean.. there was another coach in front of them.

you mean the one running the session?

 

[GreyCrow]

Correct. Someone said that Richmond focus on putting pressure on the player with the ball, but then really hunt the 2nd and 3rd receivers.

I think it was Phil Walsh that instituted the 'attack the 1st releaser' so they cant get back into the chain

Because one of the 2/3 receivers will be the original handballer - by stopping this you break the rhythm and apply more pressure