Player Watch Daniel Curtin - Debut

[Harris1991]

Two important questions for Nicks:

1. Are we a chance to win the flag this year?

And 2. Considering your answer to Question 1, what are you going to do with Curtin this week?

Back to the SANFL. He never wanted him in the seniors in the first place especially when you have L Murphy rotting away in the seconds.

 

[Golumless]

The fact we switched an in-form Nankervis to sub to accommodate Curtin for a half just has to be planned (and if so, Nicks and co. deserve to be slammed even more so for it because that's being too cute). Seems like we're trying to fit him into the '23 without there really being a spot for him at this point

Terrible decision but it shows how much Keane breaking out really threw a wrench into things. Of course, that was last week and now Dan seems set to benefit from Worrell getting injured.

 

[Trigger13]

As much as I didn’t like Nicks’ treatment of young Dan, his lack of mobility is a real concern. If he’s not carrying an injury, we have a big problem. Moves like an oil tanker to the naked eye.

 

[GreyCrow]

Let’s not forget Curtins role in that Jack Anthony goal in the prelim

I heard he was spotted on the grassy knoll

 

[adelaidecrows]

As much as I didn’t like Nicks’ treatment of young Dan, his lack of mobility is a real concern. If he’s not carrying an injury, we have a big problem. Moves like an oil tanker to the naked eye.

Thats because Nicks has probably demanded a weights focus during pre season so he bulks up. Why? because he wants him to be a tall defender. He is a running player though and it wont be until we treat him like one and allow him to build a mid type body will he show us what he has got.

 

[NSolis]

Thats because Nicks has probably demanded a weights focus during pre season so he bulks up. Why? because he wants him to be a tall defender. He is a running player though and it wont be until we treat him like one and allow him to build a mid type body will he show us what he has got.

The list of things for which Nicks is responsible grows. Now it includes 'players appearing to move slowly'.

Do you think he designs the weights program? Or did he just intervene in this case? 'Make him big and slow', says Nicks.

Do you think weights programs at professional sports teams are designed to make players slower and less agile? And Curtin's program has achieved this goal in the 6 months he's been at the club?

Accepting the premise, if Curtin was a first year player at another club, do you think they'd want him not to put on size and strength?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

As much as I didn’t like Nicks’ treatment of young Dan, his lack of mobility is a real concern. If he’s not carrying an injury, we have a big problem. Moves like an oil tanker to the naked eye.

Most rookies look sluggish early career, getting up to AFL speed and reaction times ....you'll notice a big difference in year 2

To my eye, Curtin moves similarly to Dawson ....who's not speedy, but finds space, and uses his legs to break clear

 

[John Who]

I think the issue of Curtin is that we’re expecting too much of the kid. When in reality, he’s playing “good enough to be selected at AFL level, but typical enough for a 2-gamer”.

Has he got great potential? I absolutely believe he has. I liken him to Fog, will have some great moments in his first year, can play in various roles, good skills relative to size, but will likely need 2-3 years to see him at a more consistent showing at AFL.

Was him being subbed off poor decisions by the coach?
1st game - I think relative to experience and output, Nicks has every right to sub Dan off; his objective is to coach a winning side, not to make it a feel good story for a 1st gamer.
2nd game - he was involved in those early goals directly/indirectly; so either he had a poor game or the opposition was exploiting his inexperience; the coach has a right to sub someone off if they’re a glaring weakness to the team. The injury of Worrell made it look worse with the decision, but that’s more an unlucky decision rather than a bad one.

 

[potatoe]

Sorry to unleash but the way Curtin is being used is absolute horseshit for him, his development and I can’t see how his role is actually helping the team. Playing kids on debut as the sub or subbing them is bullshit. Either make sure they have the tank to run out a game or wait until they do. You get one debut and remember it forever and there’s no way it doesn’t build resentment no matter which club it is.

Can somebody explain to me how in a very winnable game, an AFL coach leaves a near debutant to be dragged deep and forced to defend 1 on 1? Even as a neutral observer whose highest level of coaching is the under 11 reds who lost a heartbreaking elimination final in controversial circumstances, I could see exactly what Brisbane were doing. Why weren’t the magnets shifted immediately to disrupt the Lions plan and have him playing higher up the ground in a role that actually plays to his strengths of distribution and reading the play? Is he even enjoying his footy?

I can see a few have suggested the possibility a trade with us… If that materialised there’s no way it ends up being a straight swap Curtin for our 1R which is exactly was offered on draft night last year. I think that’s a tough pill for fans and AFC to swallow so unless they are prepared to accept that as the reality I can’t see how a trade gets done. I’m loathe to see players not seeing out their initial contract, destroys the integrity of the system but there’s no doubt we’re in his ear that he can be the 3rd tall behind Gov and Barrass on a HBF working towards chopping out in the midfield which is where he wants to play.

Are there not enough KPDs at the Crows where he could play that role? He’s going to be an absolute star, but Nicks and co are not making him think that. Look after him in a role that actually benefits the team and he’ll repay you by the bucket load.

And FFS use your first pick on the best mid available this year.

Thank you for this post - you have succinctly summed up my thoughts about how he is being coached perfectly. It was a tough watch on the weekend and then I was enraged when he was made sub. A clear failure on Nicks' behalf not planning for him, but Fagan exploiting it perfectly.

I rate this kid very, very highly and it's incredibly frustrating to watch us waste him.

 

[Anzacpaul]

Lets try something else

Worrell does the injury right on the half time siren

What do we do with Dan

Push him to half forward, move Jones into defence and Cook onto the wing.

 

[eaglevision]

Push him to half forward, move Jones into defence and Cook onto the wing.

If you get a chance, watch the WA vs Vic Country final quarter from the U18 champs last year. Curtin was switched to the forward line and nearly won the game for WA. You’ll still get the best out of him at this stage of his development as the 3rd tall in defence but obviously there’s a larger game plan to consider.

 

[Big Dub]

Max was on Cameron for the first goal!
Keane was on Hipwood for his goal!
It’s simple maths from there on out!
So I suggest you watch again!

Keane was on Hipwood, but the free kick was against Curtin for a hold.

Morris' first and the two Ah Chee goals were definitely on Curtin and I'm pretty sure Curtin was on Morris at the time of his second goal.

However, whether it's 4 or 5 is semantics. He had a bad day, but it's not the end of the world. And it's not indicative of how he's going to play once he irons out a couple of deficiencies. There didn't need to be a lot for him to adjust to have cut that to 2 goals, a bit more experience and it's down to one or two.

With Worrell out (not that they play the same style), I'd leave him in with some work-ons.

 

[Big Dub]

Agree with everything else you are saying but can we really say playing him defensively at AFL level is for his own development when we’ve also only played him 5 quarters in his first two games?

He's never going to be a defensive player, and we shouldn't be playing him as one. But he needs to be able to defend a 4th/ 5th forward (or mid) when it's his turn.

I don't think it will take much adjustment once he's used to the speed of AFL. In fact, it looked like he just slightly underestimated his opponent on most of these goals and gave them too much leg rope (which may have been an instruction, because our other defenders were doing it as well).

 

[119others]

Most rookies look sluggish early career, getting up to AFL speed and reaction times ....you'll notice a big difference in year 2

To my eye, Curtin moves similarly to Dawson ....who's not speedy, but finds space, and uses his legs to break clear

Agreed and especially so for talls. Even Walter at GC has averaged only 7 possessions in his 7 games,

For all the hordes of posters bagging the club - mainly Nicks - for deferring Curtins debut until (shock horror) after he had played a whole 3 SANFL games after being injured (ie all totally rational from my perspective) has anyone actually turned around and said “yep we wanted the inexperienced young talent in, acknowledge he wasn’t up to it on the day and ultimately it cost us the win”? Because if they were being honest that’s exactly what the situation was.

 

[Eddie Murphy]

For all the hordes of posters bagging the club - mainly Nicks - for deferring Curtins debut until (shock horror) after he had played a whole 3 SANFL games after being injured (ie all totally rational from my perspective) has anyone actually turned around and said “yep we wanted the inexperienced young talent in, acknowledge he wasn’t up to it on the day and ultimately it cost us the win”? Because if they were being honest that’s exactly what the situation was.

Did Curtin cost us a few goals? Sure. Was he played in his best position? No. Are we achieving anything significant this year? If not, does bringing Will Hamill back in, or continuing to back Brodie Smith provide more long term benefit than playing Dan Curtin in a more offensive, less accountable role in defence (ie Smith’s role).

 

[119others]

Did Curtin cost us a few goals? Sure. Was he played in his best position? No. Are we achieving anything significant this year? If not, does bringing Will Hamill back in, or continuing to back Brodie Smith provide more long term benefit than playing Dan Curtin in a more offensive, less accountable role in defence (ie Smith’s role).

Just to clarify mate I am not saying we shouldn’t be playing Curtin. IMO we should be and after his pre season injuries having 3 SANFL games (with the last his standout game) seemed the right time to bring him in for a very memorable first game in a showdown win. It’s just that with inexperience what happened on the weekend (him costing us 2/3rds of all Lions goals when he was playing) isn’t totally unexpected. IMO, he did cost us the game but you get that and that’s the compromise with playing young talent, especially talls, early on.

I have posted already that I think the Smith bashing has been OTT. Has finished 5th and 7th in the last 2 years and I would give him more than a handful of below average games before dumping on him - esp considering his injuries also adversely impacting.

The real question is where Curtin plays going forward. Worrells role seems like an obvious one short term to see if he can handle it - assuming he is playing on a decent sized player (193cm+) and not an agile Jamie Elliot type. Not sure he looks ready to immediately change his role up to a wing etc after training in defence all pre season.

 

[Brett Cummings]

The list of things for which Nicks is responsible grows. Now it includes 'players appearing to move slowly'.

Do you think he designs the weights program? Or did he just intervene in this case? 'Make him big and slow', says Nicks.

Do you think weights programs at professional sports teams are designed to make players slower and less agile? And Curtin's program has achieved this goal in the 6 months he's been at the club?

Accepting the premise, if Curtin was a first year player at another club, do you think they'd want him not to put on size and strength?

Maybe nicks should just ask curtin what position he's most comfortable playing. I know, it must be very complicated for this club lol.

 

[George Kramer]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid that’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….and dont see where he would have fitted.

 

[Brett Cummings]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid what’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….and dont see where he would have fitted.

I tememver hamish saying we don't pick for needs with high draft picks. So they should be taking curtins advice where he prefers to play.

 

[NSolis]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid that’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….and dont see where he would have fitted.

He certainly struggles to defend at the moment. I don't see why he can't get better at that aspect of the game. He has a lot of really valuable attributes for a defensive half player - he's a strong mark, agile and good below his knees, composed and an excellent kick. Plus obviously he's tall. He's going to need some development time anyway so I think it's fine for him to spend that development time working on his defensive weaknesses. If he ends up playing wing or something he's going to need to defend anyway so it's not going to be a waste.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid that’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….and dont see where he would have fitted.

Now you're simply trolling .....looking for a fight

The sad thing is ...you actually believe the crap in your post

 

[Sanders]

No it's not an exaggeration, it's fact ! .....watch the replay, and you'll see Curtin's opponents kicked 5 of BRIS's first 6 goals .....apart from Morris, another 2 goals were whilst he was on Ah Chee

You claiming to have watched something with your own eyes is not the flex you think it is

 

[Sanders]

I saw Curtin on Franklin at certain stages during the 2007 elimination final

So did Wayne!

 

[119others]

The issue with Curtin is we’ve drafted a defender who struggles to defend.

We don’t see him as a mid that’s why we haven’t even given him 5 mins of midfield time in the SANFL.

He should be playing half forward or developing as a mid/wing in the SANFL.

If we play him solely in defence we’ve used another top 10 pick on a defender when we need mids.

Maybe the reason other clubs overlooked him despite the hype is they didn’t want to use a high pick on a defender who struggles to defend….and dont see where he would have fitted.

By George you keep repeating this same thing. Can you point me to an official source confirming this? Or you are basing it on a brand new draftee trying to get settled into a specific (easier) position playing HBF or third tall in defence in his WHOLE 3 games in the SANFL? Will bookmark and see if he has been tried as a mid in his first contract as I would bet he will be.

Various people from the club have talked about his potential mid capabilities long term. Nobody official has ruled him out longer term as a mid from my perspective but happy for you to supply evidence to contradict this mate.

EDIT - please tell me you aren’t giving up on him already after 2 underwhelming games!

 

[Sanders]

Now you're simply trolling .....looking for a fight

The sad thing is ...you actually believe the crap your post

Oh c’mon.

If you were brighter, I’d credit this as a master troll and not peak irony