Toast Daniel Menzel

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I asked the question in the MVP thread from yesterday's game.

Menzel was dropped last year for his lack of 'defensive pressure'.

All I'm seeing at the moment is a player who easily looms as the biggest threat to the opposition every time the ball goes into our forward line.

His defensive pressure or lack thereof doesn't seem any different to what it was last year.

So why is he getting games now? It can't be solely the goals because he was kicking them last year too.

We even shopped him around he was that useless.

What pressure does Hawkins provide once the ball is on the ground?

The rest of the 'forwards' getting picked are struggling to even get near the ball.

Why was Menzel singled out last year?

Did it start from Scott or was it the likes a of a David King that mentioned it and then it snowballed from there?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Really?

Why the **** would some dingbat merge this into a thread that was started 7 years and and which hadn't had a reply to it for 7 years?

 

[dazbroncos]

Really?

Why the **** would some dingbat merge this into a thread that was started 7 years and and which hadn't had a reply to it for 7 years?

This dingbat merged the threads as it cover a Dan Menzel discussion.

Your discussion is entirely relevant and can be had here. If you'd like the title edited - more than happy to do it.

GO Catters

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

This dingbat merged the threads as it cover a Dan Menzel discussion.

Your discussion is entirely relevant and can be had here. If you'd like the title edited - more than happy to do it.

GO Catters

Whatever. No one will really be interested in a 7 year old thread that has nothing to do with what I have asked.

 

[dazbroncos]

Whatever. No one will really be interested in a 7 year old thread that has nothing to do with what I have asked.

your post is still there and the most recent and relevant to discuss.

Your thread title was Menzel and this is Daniel Menzel.

Not seeing the point of angst here. The age of thread does not effect the content relevance in it.

Go Catters

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Again. Whatever.

 

[ChookNorris]

Wonder what his relationship with the club is like now post last years contract discussion? Issues on both sides from reports with his initial declining and the clubs later accepted reduced offer. Could really see a club like St Kilda or even Norf throwing a large offer comparative to ours at him due to ample cap room. His career will always be limited, would you take it?

 

[dazbroncos]

Not sure how we got here with Menz, but damn is he putting a price on his head right now.
8 goals in 2 weeks.
Marking everything. 4 years removed from knee issues.

Will still get a short term offer because nobody forgets his need for MTMF - but if Chris Mayne can get 4 x 500k from the Pies, someone - hopefully us - can offer him 2 years at good money. Provided he can play the year out whilst being managed its $$ well spent IMO.

Go Catters

 

[cats_09]

Being lazy and quoting myself from the autopsy thread:

I know it's off topic for this thread, but I'm sick of reading that the MC don't rate Menzel and tried to get rid of him.

Menzel wasn't dropped for our Prelim (though it keeps getting mentioned), he was dropped for the qualifying final and the reasons for being dropped were discussed last year.

As for the MC wanting to get rid of him, he was offered a 2-year deal at the start of last year. He turned that deal down and then decided to pursue free agency at the end of the season as is his right - either no clubs enquired about him or if any did he decided against leaving and stayed with us.

Any chance we can stop the talk of Menzel from last year and focus on what he's doing in 2018?

August 24 last year:

Scott said on Thursday: “We’d like to keep Dan Menzel. We had a two-year offer in front of Dan at the start of the year and by mutual agreement it was put off.”

Menzel could have signed a 2-year deal at the start of last year but decided to delay contract talks in the hope of increasing his value - He started last year with a bang (and started this year even better), the problem last year is that he did fade as the season went on. Hopefully he runs out this season better, and it may be that he requires better management during the season, but with how our forward line has looked the last couple of weeks it doesn't seem likely we will be in a position to rest him any time soon.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...s/news-story/c9254f274e773111cec2072f7f0f3a6f

The qualifying final autopsy thread has discussion about why Menzel was dropped and the elimination final threads might also, and he was never shopped around - but hey, I guess people would rather ignore the facts if they don't suit their argument.

 

[Daniel McL]

Again. Whatever.

It’s not the end of the world mate relax.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Being lazy and quoting myself from the autopsy thread:





The qualifying final autopsy thread has discussion about why Menzel was dropped and the elimination final threads might also, and he was never shopped around - but hey, I guess people would rather ignore the facts if they don't suit their argument.

Alright then. On your postings, let's discuss what Menzel is doing in 2018.

What have you noticed him doing different in 2018 that had caused him to be dropped in 2017?

Obviously something has changed and for the life of me I can't see it.

Also I'm not looking for anything to suit any argument.

Let's forget about the shopped around bit if I was wrong about it.

Let's talk about the getting dropped bit.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

It’s not the end of the world mate relax.

Got anything to contribute?

 

[dazbroncos]

Alright then. On your postings, let's discuss what Menzel is doing in 2018.

What have you noticed him doing different in 2018 that had caused him to be dropped in 2017?

Obviously something has changed and for the life of me I can't see it.

Also I'm not looking for anything to suit any argument.

Let's forget about the shopped around bit if I was wrong about it.

Let's talk about the getting dropped bit.

I still think the getting dropped in QF was lunacy. Im sure in some perspective there was logic to it - weather? - but it made little sense then and even less so now.

KROCK keep going on about it too- "how the **** did this happen last year?"

Im sure in the book being released in 10 years there will be a great chapter on it - but we may never really know.

Thing is right now, he's on fire and the only thing keeping him out of the side will be..... well.. nothing

GO Catters

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Wonder what his relationship with the club is like now post last years contract discussion? Issues on both sides from reports with his initial declining and the clubs later accepted reduced offer. Could really see a club like St Kilda or even Norf throwing a large offer comparative to ours at him due to ample cap room. His career will always be limited, would you take it?

I think he's pulled up a bit sore after Etihad games since he's started playing again so in the interests of longevity those two may be out.

 

[Daniel McL]

Now we’ve got some pressure players back/in it has helped Menz focus on just playing to his strengths which is his goal sense, contested marking and his strength in 1-on-1 contests.

Last year he was unfairly treated for his lack of pressure just because all/most of our pressure players were injured.

He’s so damaging because he can play as a 2nd tall effectively because of how good his contested marking is & body use in marking contests, though I still think he’s best suited to being 3rd tall forward behind Hawkins/Esava.

Seems like he’s had a good pre-season which should hold him in good stead for the season because the worry over the last couple of years has been Menz running out of gas halfway through the season and needing to be managed more often, hopefully that doesn’t happen this year.

 

[Daniel McL]

Got anything to contribute?

Yep I just finished writing it, just wanted you to breath first.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I still think the getting dropped in QF was lunacy. Im sure in some perspective there was logic to it - weather? - but it made little sense then and even less so now.

KROCK keep going on about it too- "how the **** did this happen last year?"

Im sure in the book being released in 10 years there will be a great chapter on it - but we may never really know.

Thing is right now, he's on fire and the only thing keeping him out of the side will be..... well.. nothing

GO Catters

I think the getting dropped ranks up there with starting Chappy as a sub.

I'm still fishing though. What is he doing different?

 

[Strange Cat]

I think the getting dropped ranks up there with starting Chappy as a sub.

I'm still fishing though. What is he doing different?

Does it matter? The past is he past for a reason

He’s playing well let’s not over analysise things. However, if you were going to point out something different from last year is the defensive pressure being placed on the small forwards rather than being left up to the mods and others like last year.


Happy to see Menzel playing well and I hope he can sustain it all year.

 

[Tony Barber]

I'll answer.
Something has changed with footy. I just don't know what.

After the Essendon game in the jlt i was going to pose a silly theory.
And because it was silly I didn't.

But this is what it would have been. "Is there any chance that worsfold and Scott got together and decided to hold their forwards deep?"

Stupid right?
Because Menzel was pretty much allowed to sit deep all day and kicked 4 or 5.

And it's continued in every game I've seen. (I haven't seen them all).

Something has changed with forward structures this year across the league.
Only once yesterday was Menzel shown up for not chasing.

Now I don't know if we are covering for him. But it looks like it.
At one stage Hawkins and Menzel were next to each other, the ball hit the ground and it was gone.
They are both like the queen Mary.

But it stood out because normally a parfitt or gregson etc. would be there to apply ground pressure.

I think we just have to accept that dan can't chase.
But boy can he kick goals.

I thought he was cooked. But whatever set up is occurring is helping him just play.

 

[Footy Smarts]

I'm still fishing though. What is he doing different?

In some ways he's just playing like early last year. He wasn't moving as freely the second half of last year. He's also got rid of a few bad selfish habits that had come into his game which were particularly prevalent in the prelim. Overall it makes for a much improved player.

 

[cats_09]

Alright then. On your postings, let's discuss what Menzel is doing in 2018.

What have you noticed him doing different in 2018 that had caused him to be dropped in 2017?

Obviously something has changed and for the life of me I can't see it.

Also I'm not looking for anything to suit any argument.

Let's forget about the shopped around bit if I was wrong about it.

Let's talk about the getting dropped bit.

If you want to read why he was dropped for the qualifying final I suggest you read the threads that relate to the qualifying final - discussed extensively back then. Based on available information last year, lack of defensive pressure wasn't the main reason he missed the final.

As for what he's doing different this year to last year - to be honest, not much at the moment. This is part of a post I made in the Carji thread last year when there were questions raised about both Hawkins & Menzel missing the top 10:

*As for Menzel, he was 8th after round 5 on 52.5 votes, after round 11 he was down to 10th with 84.5 votes - so only 32 votes in those 6 rounds, and the only match he missed was round 6.

Over his first 5 rounds his lowest disposal count was 12, and he averaged 14.2 disposals per match; kicked 15 goals at an average of 3 per match and his super coach Ave was 81.6 (I know that SC scores aren't a be all & end all, but I do think they tell something of a story with Menz).

After he returned from his round 6 rest these are his results: 13 matches where he had single digit disposals 6 times, double digit 7 times and an average of 12.1; he kicked 25 goals at an average of 1.9 and his SC average dropped to 63.69.

We can question the coaches not scoring our forwards higher, but when you actually look at their performances compared to their b&f scores, they match pretty well for the output shown. Menzel kicked over a third of his goals in the first 5 rounds - it shouldn't be surprising that his b&f ranking dropped as his output did.*

There's no doubt Menzel has the talent - he showed it early last season also. The biggest challenge for him now is to not drop away in the back half of this year as he did last year.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Does it matter? The past is he past for a reason

He’s playing well let’s not over analysise things. However, if you were going to point out something different from last year is the defensive pressure being placed on the small forwards rather than being left up to the mods and others like last year.


Happy to see Menzel playing well and I hope he can sustain it all year.

I'm not over analysing but there has obviously been some fundamental shift in either his game or the coach's way of thinking that no longer sees him as a liability worthy of being dropped.

We need to remember that he kicked 40.16 last year and was still dropped.

 

[Strange Cat]

I'm not over analysing but there has obviously been some fundamental shift in either his game or the coach's way of thinking that no longer sees him as a liability worthy of being dropped.

We need to remember that he kicked 40.16 last year and was still dropped.

Again and it’s just me but does it matter anymore? I don’t see the point of looking back at it as no doubt none of us would have the facts at hands to why this occurred.

The past is the past

 

[cats_09]

I'm not over analysing but there has obviously been some fundamental shift in either his game or the coach's way of thinking that no longer sees him as a liability worthy of being dropped.

We need to remember that he kicked 40.16 last year and was still dropped.

I think the term dropped is being misused a bit - we need to remember that he was rested & managed during the season to ensure he could get through the year.

It's not like he was omitted & sent to play vfl

 

[Mr Meow]

He continues to kick important goals when the team is behind or looking vulnerable. I genuinely think he's the difference between us being a relatively high scoring team and one that struggles to generate scoring shots. Whenever I'm thinking "god, we just need someone to steady us" in the forward half, it's Menzel over Hawkins every day of the week.