Universal Love David Teague

[jpfalvo]

(sorry for the long post folks, but...)

Can't believe anyone would actually consider removing Teague at the moment. I mean we know that sacking senior coaches doesn't work right? We've done it how many times in the past 15 years? And yet most of the same problems remain. There is an entire department employing dozens of people that contributes to the performance of the team (and err.. the players.)

I'd consider about half a dozen things before even thinking about pulling the trigger on Teague.

- Re-work VFL/Development processes
- Look at player culture - are they driving and pushing each other like good teams do? If not why not?
- Assistant coaches - are they up to it? Are they working together to form a cohesive unit enough?
- Footy manager - are we getting the right skills and processes in place? Do we have the right football manager?
- Sporty psychology - are our players heads in the right space?
- Evaluation of high performance processes
- Recruiting - should always be looked at but in general I think our errors in this area have been overstated at least since SOS took over.
- Independent review - if things don't improve for the rest of the year I wouldn't mind seeing something like this where we bring in a team of 3-4 really experienced footy operators (difficulty here is finding any not already attached to a club) to investigate and report to the board.

Anyone who's worked for business would know that when things go wrong, 95% of the time it's process changes rather than personnel changes that can fix the issue. We're so eager to "sack everyone" but I'd much rather look at the way the footy department is actually being run on a day-to-day basis.

I suspect it's probably not a case of one area totally failing or it would be more obvious, but rather multiple areas running at about 80-90% and a culture of people not being challenged to get the best out of themselves and each other.

Also Teague would be learning and growing with the role - he's unlikely going to be a master coach in his second full season. He needs appropriate development, training and mentoring to reach his full potential just like any other staff member or player.

Geelong 2006/2007 same senior coach.
Richmond 2016/2017 same senior coach
Collingwood 2017/2018 same senior coach (and now 2021 - Buckley went from dud to genius to dud again, really?)
Melbourne 2020/2021 same senior coach.

Just so, sooooo much more to it than the senior coach nowadays.

Independent review. Yep i agree.

Didnt we do one in 2018 after winning another spoon. What were the results again?

Oh yeah thats right, board/CEO didnt think it necessary to advise the members. We just ended up with Walls for 2019.

Went well.

This wont happen til the entire board is removed. They have presided over an abject failure to develop a culture of accountability and winning. Its start there.

Have we all forgotten Judds footy classified performances during 2018/19 period. Defending the rebuild, saying he doesnt get involved in football oversight as football director, teague training wheels.comment.

Amateur hour

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[smashbox gill]

Fish rots at the head.

All our issues start at board level. MLG first.
Judd second.

Judd was part of the get rid of ratten campaign. Helped appoint Bolton and now Teague. Major factor in rebuild buy in.

If we want change it starts there

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I would say Brad Lloyd is up there as the one who should hold most of the blame. Hasn’t done much since he came in to provide Teague with the support he needs through quality assistants

 

[gab213]

Fish rots at the head.

All our issues start at board level. MLG first.
Judd second.

Judd was part of the get rid of ratten campaign. Helped appoint Bolton and now Teague. Major factor in rebuild buy in.

If we want change it starts there

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Looking in all the wrong places.

 

[Del28562]

I just think the improvement in the way side has played since Teague has taken over from Bolton is massive, I have been disappointed with their last 2 weeks, as I thought they were ready to challenge top 4 sides, but if they finish higher than last year, you can see the small improvements and Cripps and dochertys form couldn't be predicted, if Cripps was playing like 2019 and Docherty pre knees you would have seen some different results

Some salient points, however, what body of work has Teague produced for you to have confidence in his abilities?

 

[Broadside]

We shouldn’t be seeing small incremental improvements at this stage ... the list was extensively rebuilt since 2015 and a lot of 3-4-5 year players would have been expected to be carrying more of the load. This is where the angst comes from - we are competitive sometimes but don’t look like contenders in the next couple of years. Midfield depth - where is it?

Dow SPS LOB not showing anywhere near enough.

 

[sparkyblue]

Didn't watch Teague's presser until this morning (and didn't take my own advice and NOT watch it at all).

The key takeaway from me is DT stating that all he can control is "how we got about it, our work rate, and our culture". If that's the case, he's failed on all three levels. Our style of play is erratic, we gift players whose work rate is sub-standard, and we have no identifiable "culture" to speak of.

 

[gbatman]

Do you remove Teague? Probably not even though it's his coaching which is the problem, we need to back in that he figures this one out. We need to look at what assistants we can get. If you have really gun assistants then the head coach doesn't need to do that much if he does the right thing and listens to them. Clarkson was always open about this.

Teagues biggest flaw is something which was Bolton's biggest strength. Bolton brought young players into the side and made it all about them and made the focus on them. It was the thing which got him sacked as he did it when they were too raw. Teague is hesitant to bring young players into the side which is ok however when he does bring them in he pushes them to the outer. Midfield time but we don't use them. Backline time but as a had lock down player. Forward time... we don't play young forwards.

What Teague needs to do is give young players key roles and that means taking them away from senior players. Use Stocker as a tagger and give him time as ball winning mid, move Ed elsewhere. Instruct the ruckman to look for Dow at stoppages, let Cripps be a decoy. But this has to come from our leaders as well as the coach and I don't believe it is, I don't believe our leaders are doing enough to bring young guys into the game. We bring young players in and it's very much fend for yourself, you'll probably be dropped next week and you can see that from the lack of confidence and unsureness that a lot of our young guys demonstrate in the senors compared when they play reserves.

As for our injuries. There are too man re-injuries. We have a long history of players getting injured then coming back and doing another injury. It's to the point where the problem has to be us. I don't think it's Andrew Russell, he is more of the fitness side of things and has proven himself. I think it's more our support people, who is the club physio? There's a problem there.

As for development, there are good signs in the VFL. Power and O'Keefe are doing alright. They get guys playing well, they send them to the seniors and get them straight back and have to get them going again. Very rarely does a young player play well in a particular role at VFL level and then go to the AFL side and play that exact same role, we continue to bring young players in and change their role and it's all because our coach won't push older blokes aside.

All we can hope for is that this strategy eventually works and it might but the development time frame will be long.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Gbatman makes some solid points, however our 3 oldest players Eddie, Murphy and Curnow are one dimensional and can’t be moved to new roles. Ed is a tagged and that is it, he doesn’t have the skill set to be anything else, Murphy has shown he is an outside midfielder and that’s it and Eddie is nothing at the moment, but the only way to replace there roles is to drop them to the 2s.. For what ever reason DT and the match committee have been unwilling to do this, but sure,y the walls are caving in especially on Eddie and we can no longer accept carrying these liabilities which are giving nothing.

Murph wasn’t our worst yesterday, but that is always the issue he is never going to be the worst but he hasn’t been really good either for about 2 years.. We shouldn’t be playing a 34 yo when we would getat least the equivalent output from a 20yo..

Curnow has had some good games and can still lock down the best midfielders in the comp, I think there is still a role for him in the side. The only issue is that all of the good teams have moved away from tagging, yet we continue to do this, is that purely so that we can keep a role for Ed..

 

[jpfalvo]

I would say Brad Lloyd is up there as the one who should hold most of the blame. Hasn’t done much since he came in to provide Teague with the support he needs through quality assistants

So who holds Lloyd to account.

His mate Liddle? Judd as footy director?

Accountability has been lacking for a long time inside this football club.

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[jpfalvo]

Looking in all the wrong places.

Where should i be looking?

President is invisible as per usual. Wasnt he meant to stand down last year.

Hasnt he presided over the rebuild strategy, wasn't it his plan. 66game rebuild and 112games in. Any chance for being held accountable for his actions, leadership and decison making.

In his time on the board, we saw coach sackings back to ratten. Up to 3rd CEO, 3rd or 4th list mgr, buttifant was under him, now russell.

I'm only asking for them to own their decisions. Front up.

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[smashbox gill]

Liddle better be on the phone today to his ex-Richmond mates Neil Balme and Justin Leppitch. They are exactly what we need in a footy boss and senior assistant

 

[cookie monster]

Our board collectively knows they can't survive another sacked coach. So look forward to a token couple of token appointments (Woosha from Perth is one) but ultimately I think Teague stays whilst this board is there. They'll point to the Richmond example bla bla. But we are so far from Richmond 2016 right now, not even close

Already hearing that most of the rhetoric at board level is that this is a Steve Silvagni problem. I'd say that's being driven by whoever wants to unsurp MLG as President, given his ties.

MLG doesn't know what he's doing. Neither does Judd. Where are these two figures? Staying well away from the media as usual. It's really not good enough.

Enough pointing to the financials and debt position. They have been failing at the core business of football for many years now and it can no longer be ignored.

Club is a genuine shit show. Things are going to have to get a hell of a lot worse before they get better. Time for the members to start exercising their rights under the constitution and agitate for change. 100 signatures gets us a meeting

 

[DangerousD]

Forget about the injury list ... do you think he has improved us fitness wise ? I don’t ... where’s the value add ? ... maybe you’re seeing it if so please help me out and shine a light on it ...

To be honest, I don’t think you see fitness during the game, I think you see a lack of effort, lack of two way running and a lack of physical desire, due to poor culture, poor gameplay and poor selection.

I think if the coach started dropping players because they didn’t chase hard enough or run back hard enough, our fitness would improve in a few weeks by magic.

that was the most physical game we have played this year, the boys didn’t get stronger since last week, it’s above the shoulders.

 

[DangerousD]

Under Bolton lob should never have been in the ones, he wasn't ready. He coached poor overly defensive running patterns into them and then destroyed their confidence (lob and Dow) they're behind others in their draft class, for sure, but let's not go calling someone a bust until their afl career is actually over. There are countless late bloomers and slow developers in this code, this club has put its draftees through fairly extenuating circumstances development wise.

Agree in regards to late bloomers and developers and I see more value having LOB on the wing than Kennedy, Setters, Dow, even Newnes, it just seems the coach and coaching staff doesn’t.

I also disagree that Bolton killed their confidence, both were a lot lot better under Bolton than Teague, I think it’s pretty evident looking at their contributions to the team, over the past 4 years.

They have gone backwards no doubt, I just don’t see how people are saying it’s Bolton’s fault, they were twice the players under him.

 

[Arr0w]

Fish rots at the head.

All our issues start at board level. MLG first.
Judd second.

Judd was part of the get rid of ratten campaign. Helped appoint Bolton and now Teague. Major factor in rebuild buy in.

If we want change it starts there

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Please

 

[Arr0w]

Where should i be looking?

President is invisible as per usual. Wasnt he meant to stand down last year.

Hasnt he presided over the rebuild strategy, wasn't it his plan. 66game rebuild and 112games in. Any chance for being held accountable for his actions, leadership and decison making.

In his time on the board, we saw coach sackings back to ratten. Up to 3rd CEO, 3rd or 4th list mgr, buttifant was under him, now russell.

I'm only asking for them to own their decisions. Front up.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

Keep seeing this "66 game rebuild" now rolling out to x amount of games. Do you actually know the difference?

Will say it again, for the 1000th time our rebuild timeline is no worse than of the most recent rebuilds, Saints and Lions

People like you, use unrealistic expectations to roll out your agenda against the board, president, etc, with absolutely no idea what the current situation really is and or what's required

 

[Arr0w]

Our board collectively knows they can't survive another sacked coach. So look forward to a token couple of token appointments (Woosha from Perth is one) but ultimately I think Teague stays whilst this board is there. They'll point to the Richmond example bla bla. But we are so far from Richmond 2016 right now, not even close

Already hearing that most of the rhetoric at board level is that this is a Steve Silvagni problem. I'd say that's being driven by whoever wants to unsurp MLG as President, given his ties.

MLG doesn't know what he's doing. Neither does Judd. Where are these two figures? Staying well away from the media as usual. It's really not good enough.

Enough pointing to the financials and debt position. They have been failing at the core business of football for many years now and it can no longer be ignored.

Club is a genuine sh*t show. Things are going to have to get a hell of a lot worse before they get better. Time for the members to start exercising their rights under the constitution and agitate for change. 100 signatures gets us a meeting

Yet another with board/president agendas and unrealistic expectations and continued cherry picking

 

[DangerousD]

Keep seeing this "66 game rebuild" now rolling out to x amount of games. Do you actually know the difference?

Will say it again, for the 1000th time our rebuild timeline is no worse than of the most recent rebuilds, Saints and Lions

People like you, use unrealistic expectations to roll out your agenda against the board, president, etc, with absolutely no idea what the current situation really is and or what's required

No worse than the Lions? When did they start their rebuild compared to ours? I swear I’ve seen you say before they are one year maybe two ahead of us?

They have finished too 4 the last two years.

 

[cookie monster]

Keep seeing this "66 game rebuild" now rolling out to x amount of games. Do you actually know the difference?

Will say it again, for the 1000th time our rebuild timeline is no worse than of the most recent rebuilds, Saints and Lions

People like you, use unrealistic expectations to roll out your agenda against the board, president, etc, with absolutely no idea what the current situation really is and or what's required

Question to you

Are you actually happy with the level of performance on field?

 

[gab213]

No worse than the Lions? When did they start their rebuild compared to ours? I swear I’ve seen you say before they are one year maybe two ahead of us?

They have finished too 4 the last two years.

They did start rebuilding before us by at least a couple of years. There's something else that has helped them greatly over the past two years. They have had the lowest number of games missed due to injury by best 22 players than any other club in the league and by a long shot. Last year they were also helped by not having to travel.

I'm not saying that we are on track with them right now but they have had a bit of luck along the way too.

 

[BlueJet]

I wonder, how many of those complaining at how Lob, Dow, SPS are deployed were amongst those cheering on the 'Teague Train' when these players were replaced by the likes of Ed & Murph.
Off the top of my head, Arrow was one of a small handful with any real foresight in this space.

 

[Arr0w]

No worse than the Lions? When did they start their rebuild compared to ours? I swear I’ve seen you say before they are one year maybe two ahead of us?

They have finished too 4 the last two years.

Started 2013

 

[fnm_just a man]

Started 2013

And the Saints?

 

[Arr0w]

Question to you

Are you actually happy with the level of performance on field?

No no, that's a completely different discussion, let's thrash out your bullshit claims first

You want to start a petition, basing our current rebuild timeline, 6th year, to the Tigers 2016 season and the following progression to a flag.

Tigers started their rebuild in 2007, why not compare it to their 6th year, which is actually 2013, not 2016?

Seriously the likes of you should be banned from posting bullshit

Go start your petition with those bullshit inaccurate facts

What other crap do you want to roll out?

 

[Arr0w]

And the Saints?

Same year