Universal Love David Teague

[Gavstar]

Barker is an old school friend of Liddle. He shouldn't be making decisions like that one his own.

Story was that Club wanted to make changes to assistant coaches last year and Teague said no.

Buck stops with him.

 

[gab213]

Parkin retires
sack Brittain
sack Pagan
sack Ratten
sack Malthouse
sack Bolton
sack Teague.......is the latest call

something wrong here

Unfortunately, when it comes to coaches there aren't too many who make the choice to retire.

I do agree with you thoughy, we don't want to be on the coaching merry-go-round every couple of years

 

[Blue and Blue]

I think the list I presented has been misunderstood.
I can only say that the intention is to show we have gained nothing by any of the sackings and if another happens it is likely to be the same.
How long does a coach get?
Maybe as long as it takes because that is clearly what happened at Geelong with Thompson and Hawthorn with Clarkson and at Richmond with Hardwick.
There are other examples too.
Apart from Mick all the others might have got there if we backed them in long enough.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Most coaches fail.
The vast majority, even the successful ones, get sacked.

It's misguided to see a 'pattern' there, and think it is the reason for our failure.
Straight up Pagan and Malthouse were the wrong appointments.

To be fair to Pagan, he got dealt a very bad hand with our crippling salary cap penalties, as time goes by, I tend to be more forgiving of his tenure. Malthouse less so.

There is still time to turn things around this season FWIW, if we can win our next two games, who knows what could happen.

This constant ruthlessness in culling coaches/baying for blood amongst the board in the past and supporters of Carlton I find a bit distasteful. We onlu started to truly embrace the National Draft and a rebuild once SOS joined the club as Head of Recruiting.

This club, it's players and the culture need stability, and this is why I firmly believe Teague should get at least another full season in charge (even if results may not warrant it)

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Parkin retires
sack Brittain
sack Pagan
sack Ratten
sack Malthouse
sack Bolton
sack Teague.......is the latest call

something wrong here

Same people doing the hiring, essentially...

 

[Stamos]

I think the list I presented has been misunderstood.
I can only say that the intention is to show we have gained nothing by any of the sackings and if another happens it is likely to be the same.
How long does a coach get?
Maybe as long as it takes because that is clearly what happened at Geelong with Thompson and Hawthorn with Clarkson and at Richmond with Hardwick.
There are other examples too.
Apart from Mick all the others might have got there if we backed them in long enough.

We certainly gained from sacking Mick, and we gained from sacking an off-the-rails Bolton. We went from 1-10 to 6-5, it was an immediate gain.

Obviously question marks over whether appointing Teague full time was the right decision.

 

[Stamos]

Same people doing the hiring, essentially...

Not really.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Not really.

So the old carlton cronies haven't been around all that time? Yes really...

 

[Stamos]

So the old carlton cronies haven't been around all that time? Yes really...

Maybe, but they can't claim the responsibility for the last 2 appointments.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

We certainly gained from sacking Mick, and we gained from sacking an off-the-rails Bolton. We went from 1-10 to 6-5, it was an immediate gain.

Obviously question marks over whether appointing Teague full time was the right decision.

Perhaps, but it also goes to show the inherent flaw in sacking coaches mid-season and installing a caretaker coach who unexpectedly exceeds expectations.

Richmond did the same thing when they Unleashed The Giesch back in 1997 when they sacked Wallsy.

Now by no means am I comparing Teague to that potato looking Oompa Lumpa. Far from it.

Aside from Paul Roos, would be intrigued to know how many coaches who were installed as caretaker coaches during the season went on to win flags as senior coach throughout history ???

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Maybe, but they can't claim the responsibility for the last 2 appointments.

It wasn't a fully serious point. Just that I doubt carlton will fully change until its properly out from under that shadow.

 

[Stamos]

It wasn't a fully serious point. Just that I doubt carlton will fully change until its properly out from under that shadow.

The issues at the Club now seem to be solely Football Department related (obviously, the most important part of a Football Club), so I'm not sure that you can say that the reasons for our plight are those outside influences.

 

[tarczonandjane]

The problems the club has had have applied for nearly two decades, and across numerous coaches:

- poor kicking skills
- playing the boundary line
- late quarter fade outs
- poor kicking for goal
- huge pressure and effort for little reward
- caught on the counter attack
- poor returns from young players


All that stuff happened to varying degrees under Ratts, Malthouse, and Bolton, and it has continued under Teague.

That suggests a cultural reset. But two things: 1: it’s the hardest gig in football (ask any Richmond fan); and (2) our coaches have only vaguely talked about it. Bolton probably spoke about it more than the others. Teague initially talked about creating an atmosphere like a big country football club, but he doesn’t seem to discuss that nowadays.

The successful coaches who have come in either haven’t had the support (Pagan) or the dedication (Malthouse) to make it happen.

I personally think Clarkson won’t come to us. I reckon he’ll look at our game the other week and see us spinning our wheels permanently in rebuild, and be too smart. So if we are going fit a less experienced coach (or even sticking with Teague), we need someone who can clearly understand that they’re in charge of a cultural shift, and have a plan on how to do this. We’ll then need to support them in doing it. This is something we failed to do with Bolton. When the going got tough, we got going.

 

[cookie monster]

I agree but so is pittonet. I'd rather a different option as 2nd ruck but we don't have one. All I'm saying is if casboult plays, TDK is first ruck. If pittonet plays, he is first ruck. I'd rather a good first ruck and carry a dud 3rd tall forward than vice versa.

Ideally we can have TDK rucking with a good forward/ ruck as support. Or a good ruck with TDK as forward ruck support. We don't have that though.

Whoever was responsible for looking at our ruck stocks last year and thinking the combination of:

1. TDK (very good, but young and injury prone)
2. Pittonet (crap)
3. Casboult (very crap)

Was going to be OK for a team aspiring to finish in the finals - please hand in your resignation immediately.

 

[HBF]

We need a shake up in the coaches box at years end. DT on thin ice

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The issues at the Club now seem to be solely Football Department related (obviously, the most important part of a Football Club), so I'm not sure that you can say that the reasons for our plight are those outside influences.

Uh. In a sense I guess I'm just saying if we sacked the footy department what confidence do fans allow themselves thst we'd hire a better department. How much has changed at the club above the footy department to suggest the people who stuck with Barker and approved the hire of Stanton etc would make good hires.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

The problems the club has had have applied for nearly two decades, and across numerous coaches:

- poor kicking skills
- playing the boundary line
- late quarter fade outs
- poor kicking for goal
- huge pressure and effort for little reward
- caught on the counter attack
- poor returns from young players


All that stuff happened to varying degrees under Ratts, Malthouse, and Bolton, and it has continued under Teague.

That suggests a cultural reset. But two things: 1: it’s the hardest gig in football (ask any Richmond fan); and (2) our coaches have only vaguely talked about it. Bolton probably spoke about it more than the others. Teague initially talked about creating an atmosphere like a big country football club, but he doesn’t seem to discuss that nowadays.

The successful coaches who have come in either haven’t had the support (Pagan) or the dedication (Malthouse) to make it happen.

I personally think Clarkson won’t come to us. I reckon he’ll look at our game the other week and see us spinning our wheels permanently in rebuild, and be too smart. So if we are going fit a less experienced coach (or even sticking with Teague), we need someone who can clearly understand that they’re in charge of a cultural shift, and have a plan on how to do this. We’ll then need to support them in doing it. This is something we failed to do with Bolton. When the going got tough, we got going.

I will be furious if we appointed Clarkson. Battle of Britain Dog Act aside, his best years of coach are clearly behind him, and his recent list management decisions at the Hawks have set their rebuild back..

If any premiership coach was available on the market, and we decided to let go of Teague, I would go for Luke Beveridge, I find his coaching ability and media persona 'refreshing'.

#BevosBlues has a nice ring to it

But seriously, need to stay the course with Teague in my opinion.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Posted something similar weeks ago and the issues still relevant and not improving . So 11 games to go on the season same amount as 2019 when he took the job .
So he has 11 games to save his job imo we need to see improvement in game plan that can see us holding up digging in when not winning clearances anotherwards pressuring the opposition into mistakes .
Our midfield is diabolical defensively is it workrate or player setups doesnt matter needs to improve .
These days if you cant get the ball off the opposition when you dont have the ball your up against it we dont pressure enough in particular forward of centre .
Our fortunes are almost entirely dependant on clearances and contested ball if we lose these areas were in trouble .

When we lose control in this area we get scored heavily upon happens almost weekly needs to vastly improve .

Continued red time goals real issue our team should be fit enough to run out quarters and games needs to improve .

Fwd 50 pressure was something Teague was big on even before he was appointed coach it is abysmal and not acceptable .
It had improved somewhat last year is now back at bolton days level of negligence .
Teams walk out of our forwardline set up too many scores from defence needs to vastly improve .

These are all critical areas that if there arent real improvement in through the last 11 games no point continuing on with Teague as he clearly isnt the man for the job if he and the MC cant improve these crucial areas .

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Parkin retires
sack Brittain
sack Pagan
sack Ratten
sack Malthouse
sack Bolton
sack Teague.......is the latest call

something wrong here

Yes. It's spelt S.A.K.C.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Binge watched the Amazon docuseries the other night.

Watching richmond operate it's pretty clear that the assistants essentially do everything in regards to tactics and strategy. each quarter they present info to dimma who then delivers the message. in one of the games he even gets back into the box after quarter time and asks the assistants if "we changed anything up?".

Definitely opened my eyes to how important assistants are.

Get better ones. Stick with Teague.

At the end of the day the coach is responsible for making horrendous moves like bringing Casboult back in after just 1 match out .
And playing players out of position he ticks off on these moves .
He is the one responsible for the kick it and hope forward entry .
We took 9 marks inside 50 against Sydney 7 of them where from Harry Mckay .
So we got 2 marks inside 50 for the game from our whole forward setup minus Harry .
That is game plan that is the coaches responsibility .
After all he is the one that has been continually stating we want to move the ball fast .
If that is the mindset instilled in the players im not surprised weve been negligent defensively .

Besides like player wishlists from other clubs just how many of these assistants can we actually acquire in one off season .
And can we afford to wait and see what happens if we cant acquire these magical assistants ?

 

[chunkylover53]

At the end of the day the coach is responsible for making horrendous moves like bringing Casboult back in after just 1 match out .
And playing players out of position he ticks off on these moves .
He is the one responsible for the kick it and hope forward entry .
We took 9 marks inside 50 against Sydney 7 of them where from Harry Mckay .
So we got 2 marks inside 50 for the game from our whole forward setup minus Harry .
That is game plan that is the coaches responsibility .
After all he is the one that has been continually stating we want to move the ball fast .
If that is the mindset instilled in the players im not surprised weve been negligent defensively .

Besides like player wishlists from other clubs just how many of these assistants can we actually acquire in one off season .
And can we afford to wait and see what happens if we cant acquire these magical assistants ?

I agree he's not coaching very well. I just don't think the answer is sacking him. Coaches, like players have form - he's in poor form.

We need to stop sacking coaches ffs.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Most coaches fail.
The vast majority, even the successful ones, get sacked.

It's misguided to see a 'pattern' there, and think it is the reason for our failure.
Straight up Pagan and Malthouse were the wrong appointments.

Agree we also undertook a massive rebuild one of which makes the coaching appointments far more critical imo .
Its different times now what happened in Carltons history regarding coaches has absolutely no bearing on current day happenings .
If Teague isnt the man for the job and i think we will know that by seasons end then you make the necessary call .
If we suddenly improve critical areas rest of season then he deserves another year even if we dont make finals which is highly likely .
All i want to see is improvement in areas of weakness in our team play .

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I agree but so is pittonet. I'd rather a different option as 2nd ruck but we don't have one. All I'm saying is if casboult plays, TDK is first ruck. If pittonet plays, he is first ruck. I'd rather a good first ruck and carry a dud 3rd tall forward than vice versa.

Ideally we can have TDK rucking with a good forward/ ruck as support. Or a good ruck with TDK as forward ruck support. We don't have that though.

TDK is a better ruckmen than Pittonet
Levi is a better fwd than Pittonet and probably even with TDK..

Its not perfect but the best combo option we have is TDK & Levi and Pitto in the 2s as back up.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I agree he's not coaching very well. I just don't think the answer is sacking him. Coaches, like players have form - he's in poor form.

We need to stop sacking coaches ffs.

This 100%, he is like a young player and learning the ropes. He isnt perfect but i think he will come good..

 

[Stamos]

All i want to see is improvement in areas of weakness in our team play .

Huge red flags in regards to this in Round 2 and still hasn't been addressed.