most coaches end up getting sacked, even the successful ones. Parko, Walls etc
Universal Love David Teague
- Thread starter Aphrodite
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Two of them were straight the wrong men for the job.
Britain got screwed by injury, as did Ratten. Bolton was a reasonable appointment, but went off the rails.
Behind the scenes we've had an underfunded and poor football department.
Teague is not currently doing a good job.
AceAndy
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Since 2000 Collingwood have only had 2 coaches and we have had 8.
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I didn't mention anything about them being sacked. I said that apparently we got the appointment of 7 coaches in a row wrong... if you believe the narrative that Teague is now the wrong man for the job.
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And apparently we've struggled to find a good one amongst those 8.
I think Ross Lyon is a good option. He is absolutely ruthless and is incredibly driven and hard wor
Teague has had two years to our players to work both ways and he has failed. Not sure why more time will make a difference.
I understand his style can be dull but we need something major to change and I think he would bring the gravitas to make it happen.
Teague has had two years to our players to work both ways and he has failed. Not sure why more time will make a difference.
I understand his style can be dull but we need something major to change and I think he would bring the gravitas to make it happen.
yeah, sorry - misinterpreted your post.
AceAndy
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I did think it was interesting that Robbo mentioned on AFL360 so many good football people dont find success at Carlton.
Surely this has got to be a culture issue, there is just some things we are not doing well and havent been for 20 years. Hopefully this review can uncover what it is.
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What do you believe may be the problems(s)?
If you put the greatest captain the world has ever seen on a sinking ship, the ship will still sink. Carlton have had a history of putting captains on ships full of holes and asking them to sail.
There's a lot of reasons why our ship keeps sinking. Some don't coach us that well but the reoccurring issues are list management, recruiting, development and to an extent onfield leadership and club culture.
AceAndy
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I think finding that winning culture has been very elusive for the last 20 years.
If it was easy to do i imagine we would have done it by now. I suspect there are areas of improvement across every facet of the football department but whether that will unlock that winning culture it is hard to know.
17SetMeFree
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Brttain could have been something, had injuries, great game day coach, respected, his crime? Obsessive Elliot with "pagan or nothing" mantra
Pagan, oversaw ground zero sanctions, no one wanted to come, had a team of Moneyball has-beens- but we got mickey martin to 300.
Rattan, had a good list , got within a free-kick not given, to a prelim final, gunshot attacking footy, not defence minded. Injuries were the excuse for something bigger.
Malthouse. Kernahans error, jaded from the Collingwood fallout, did some ok things, ultimately lost the players, some left, set us back heavy
Bolton - great guy, development ok, wins didn't come when expected, management didn't see it improving
Barker - was at carlton too long. He should have left, got comfortable, paid a price, leaving the industry - says it all
Teague - Inexperienced game day coach, still in play, will he improve before the season finishes? probably not. Conundrum. 3 very capable, better coaches are on the market in the next period. Keep? risk Get another? risk which carries less risk?
All good people, but the development is stymied given continual staff changes. The next regime must have stability and development strengths. what a time to be alive.
I think if Teague can get some good assistants that know their stuff and he listens to them then I think he will do ok.
I think our list is ok but not great however I think it's better than it has been performing.
Teague has a good backline that is full of attacking players. Weitering and Jones are excellent intercept marks. Docherty, Saad and Newman are good accumulators who can run off and read the play. HOWEVER... Allowing the ball to come in unpressured, quickly and not hemmed in from the boundary too often wastes the offensive qualities of our defence. When we slow our opposition up, push them wide and force hurried kicks forward we do really well and can setup an attack from defence but we don't do it enough and we need to be doing it the whole game.
A forward line that lets the opposition setup lose players everywhere miles from any Carlton players so they can't be pressured and can rebound fast and effective and a midfield that plays well off their opponents and allows far too many unpressured entries is putting our defence to the sword and wasting what could be a pretty good intercepting and rebounding defence.
Watching the good sides they play one on one at stoppages and get space by being physical and pushing off their opponents and bursting away. We just make a trade, let them have one lose while we have one lose and we get burnt because we know nothing about defending and bodying at stoppages. The good sides, when they cover the ground ball in their forward line they also cover the outriders (lose receivers) so that if the ball goes their way they can apply pressure and get another go at it. We play roulette, we go the ball and the ball only, if it goes our way we are a chance, but most defences make sure it goes at least somewhat their way and when they get it they are away easily.
Quite simply, our tackling, pressure acts and defensive aspects of our game are bad because our players are so often too far away from the opposition to do such things. That's coaching.
I still see ruckmen going into our forward line, I hate that, especially when you have ruckman sized forwards. Good sides use ruckman as a defensive player who sits behind play and takes the long bomb out or drops back in defence.
I'm seeing too much confusion from players in our midfield group. Dow clearly has been overcoached and looks unsure on what to do all the time. Our centre setup is all about Cripps or Walsh getting it, maybe Curnow. We need to use a team structure where we can push, shove and apply pressure at stoppages and have a system that covers pressure and ball winning.
A forward line and a midfield that has no idea how to compete one on one and defend and a backline that is battling against the odds.
We need to get this right and put it to the players to play close to their opponents and deal with it.
Teague may be the guy to do that or he may not, he's tried something and it hasn't worked so it's time to try something else, have a good look at how the good teams defend and what they do well and how they do it.
I think our list is ok but not great however I think it's better than it has been performing.
Teague has a good backline that is full of attacking players. Weitering and Jones are excellent intercept marks. Docherty, Saad and Newman are good accumulators who can run off and read the play. HOWEVER... Allowing the ball to come in unpressured, quickly and not hemmed in from the boundary too often wastes the offensive qualities of our defence. When we slow our opposition up, push them wide and force hurried kicks forward we do really well and can setup an attack from defence but we don't do it enough and we need to be doing it the whole game.
A forward line that lets the opposition setup lose players everywhere miles from any Carlton players so they can't be pressured and can rebound fast and effective and a midfield that plays well off their opponents and allows far too many unpressured entries is putting our defence to the sword and wasting what could be a pretty good intercepting and rebounding defence.
Watching the good sides they play one on one at stoppages and get space by being physical and pushing off their opponents and bursting away. We just make a trade, let them have one lose while we have one lose and we get burnt because we know nothing about defending and bodying at stoppages. The good sides, when they cover the ground ball in their forward line they also cover the outriders (lose receivers) so that if the ball goes their way they can apply pressure and get another go at it. We play roulette, we go the ball and the ball only, if it goes our way we are a chance, but most defences make sure it goes at least somewhat their way and when they get it they are away easily.
Quite simply, our tackling, pressure acts and defensive aspects of our game are bad because our players are so often too far away from the opposition to do such things. That's coaching.
I still see ruckmen going into our forward line, I hate that, especially when you have ruckman sized forwards. Good sides use ruckman as a defensive player who sits behind play and takes the long bomb out or drops back in defence.
I'm seeing too much confusion from players in our midfield group. Dow clearly has been overcoached and looks unsure on what to do all the time. Our centre setup is all about Cripps or Walsh getting it, maybe Curnow. We need to use a team structure where we can push, shove and apply pressure at stoppages and have a system that covers pressure and ball winning.
A forward line and a midfield that has no idea how to compete one on one and defend and a backline that is battling against the odds.
We need to get this right and put it to the players to play close to their opponents and deal with it.
Teague may be the guy to do that or he may not, he's tried something and it hasn't worked so it's time to try something else, have a good look at how the good teams defend and what they do well and how they do it.
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Do you know the details of his role? Do you know that he didn't midweek? Do you know if the club said they'd pay for flights and accommodation?
100% you know none of those things and so can't and shouldn't come up with conspiracy theories because he attended a game in his home state.
I'm going to the game on Monday in Sydney. Should I hand back my carlton membership? * me dead.
It's possible that Teague has fallen into that trap that a lot of senior coaches mention during their first few years - trying to take everything on yourself and not delegating and trusting those around you enough.
Either that or he's trusted them too much and they really aren't up to it.
Either that or he's trusted them too much and they really aren't up to it.
Weiterbot23
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Cliper
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I am continuously amused by the "get rid of the lot and get a new lot in" brigade.
Pray tell where is this new solution to be found?
Is it that there is a bunch of players who are super duper so much better than current AFL players but no one other than we can identify?
And what coaches have all the answers but no one else can see them?
We went and got R A , the so called guru of all that is fitness, hows that working out?
Got Saad, to me is doing a stellar job but overwhelmed, R Williams, perhaps needs a bit more time to settle into a dysfunctional team.
I have no idea what it will take to fix our constant malaise but this incessant entitlement of greatness has not serves us well.
The sooner we stop lauding every sentient being who walks thru Icon Park as a "Gun" and the next "sooper star" the better.
A child behaviorist once said, Don't tell your child they are brilliant, else they will stop trying; hey apparently i'm great better stop else I may make a mistake and prove them wrong. Tell them you appreciate the hard work they put in to get them where they are ( child continues on the hard).
Some AFL players are like children, alas so are some fans
Pray tell where is this new solution to be found?
Is it that there is a bunch of players who are super duper so much better than current AFL players but no one other than we can identify?
And what coaches have all the answers but no one else can see them?
We went and got R A , the so called guru of all that is fitness, hows that working out?
Got Saad, to me is doing a stellar job but overwhelmed, R Williams, perhaps needs a bit more time to settle into a dysfunctional team.
I have no idea what it will take to fix our constant malaise but this incessant entitlement of greatness has not serves us well.
The sooner we stop lauding every sentient being who walks thru Icon Park as a "Gun" and the next "sooper star" the better.
A child behaviorist once said, Don't tell your child they are brilliant, else they will stop trying; hey apparently i'm great better stop else I may make a mistake and prove them wrong. Tell them you appreciate the hard work they put in to get them where they are ( child continues on the hard).
Some AFL players are like children, alas so are some fans
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gab213
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Pagan was a bit unlucky, signed on to coach us, not long after the salary cap scandal hits. Brendan Goddard and Daniel Wells no longer coming to Carlton, others leave and he arrives to coach a Dad's army team.
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I’m not having a go at Worsfold but at the silliness of his remote appointment during a pandemic.
The Blue Baggers
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pretty good summary
MM was disaster…”too may small forwards not enough mids”. In Thomas Out Betts !!
Bolts by his own admission had lost it by the end … 18 man defence … scoring was an after thought !!
Liked for the use of pray tell. Haven't heard that since watching that wascily wabbit cartoon.
Percy2257
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Any Carlton supporter who thinks that David Teague and, for that matter, most of the current coaching panel are worth retaining has NO JUDGMENT. As Matt Rendell said, in effect, today the failure of the team is due to the coaches.
Everything in football, as in all areas of life, comes down to judgment. Irrespective of your intellect or your wealth or your sense of self, you either have good judgment or you don’t. FACT.
Mark LG strikes me as someone who lacks good judgment. Let’s hope that Sayers has it. Because we desperately need people of good judgment in the main decision making positions.
Everything in football, as in all areas of life, comes down to judgment. Irrespective of your intellect or your wealth or your sense of self, you either have good judgment or you don’t. FACT.
Mark LG strikes me as someone who lacks good judgment. Let’s hope that Sayers has it. Because we desperately need people of good judgment in the main decision making positions.
Straight from the camels mouth huh..........okay
Giraffe maybe.
When you think about, that takes some serious skill. Well done CFC.
