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David Warner

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Run n Spread said:
I'll have a go. From the ashes squad

Pro Clarke Warner Hughes Wade

Anti Clarke Watson Kahwaja Lyon Siddle Cowan

Neutral or more worried about their spots Haddin, Rogers, Pattinson, Starc, Harris, Bird, Faulkner

How close did I go?

Being half flippant but if Clarke is seriously on the outer with some then team dynamics do come into play, more so then if it is just some petty squabble. This can affect the team in other ways.
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i reckon haddin is in the pro clarke camp, definitely.

dunno why sids, cowan and lyon are anti clarke
 
peternorth said:
i reckon haddin is in the pro clarke camp, definitely.

dunno why sids, cowan and lyon are anti clarke
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Hussey blow up at the end of the Sydney test, The three you mentioned plus Watson stayed behind in the rooms with Hussey as he had requested to savor the moment, Clarke and Davey went on James Packers boat.
 
western royboy said:
Close.

It's a serious issue and it can be argued that it's cost Wade his spot at this point in time (Certainly that's my view in a 50/50 call you should always go with an eye to the future, in this case other issues forced it against him). The Selectors are aware of it and they have looked at alternatives. Bailey was looked at seriously as an Ashes tourist to provide backup or an alternative captaincy option. Assume the worst case scenario; we get flogged in the UK Ashes, team morale drops to an even lower level and the selectors are forced to remove Michael Clarke as Captain - who do they go to? Would Australia ever consider doing a New Zealand by installing a new Captain playing his first Test ala Lee Germon?

It hopefully doesn't happen and Clarke can build a bridge to the rest of the team and get them onboard, but he's going to have to change a bit in order to earn the off field respect required to get their full support.
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Crikey it is serious. I figured Haddin had been bought in more as a concenus builder and unifying good bloke type figure.

What has Clarke done to be so unpopular? (besides the boat thing) Is it a personality issue, leadership approach or personal issues with members of the team? The selectors considering removing him after he made so many runs, has achieved OK results till India and been tactically very good strikes me as very drastic. i.e. Has he tried the Mark Neld approach and got some off side or he just doesn't have mates in the team?

OR

How much of this is actually caused by Clarke been a selector? Yes the captain leads and has responsibilities but is still a member of the 11 and a team mate. And in a team sport where mate-ship, team work etc are encouraged and necessary having him stand in judgement over said team mates is a dangerous situation and perception can be everything. So if Clarke was to give up the selectors role could this possibly alleviate some bad blood which has been built up? Team mates could then work together and take Clarke how they like as a bloke rather than perceive him as a team mate having sides or out to get them etc.
 
Wade is pro clarke and haddin is neutral?

err wade basically just got axed so clarke could bring on old mate back into the team, i would take a wild guess that haddin kinda likes clarke as liking/respecting clarke is the only reason he is back in the mix.
 

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frankrizzo said:
Wade is pro clarke and haddin is neutral?

err wade basically just got axed so clarke could bring on old mate back into the team, i would take a wild guess that haddin kinda likes clarke as liking/respecting clarke is the only reason he is back in the mix.
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Pro Clarke Warner Wade Haddin

Anti Clarke Watson Khawaja Lyon Siddle Pattinson

Neutral or more worried about their spots Haddin, Rogers,Pattinson, Starc, Harris, Bird, Faulkner, Cowan, Wade, Hughes

Western Royboy's edits closer to the mark. Fair call on Wade figured he was a Clarke man before should have changed. Haddin I figured was bought in as a unifying figure so had him as neutral as he bridges the divide.

Either way there is clearly a problem with the dynamic of the team. From an outsider looking in Clarke has made runs, tactically captained well and achieved good results till India. Considering sacking him on that is drastic. Thus it must be a personal/man managerial issue and there are some who clearly don't like Clarke. Thus the list was a guess to figure out who was who and what elements of the team are upset by Clarke. If it was 1 or 2 then you can say its a personal squabble and they should get on with it but if it is a Mark Neeld lost the players scenario it is problematic. Reckon Clarke as a selector also doesn't help matters either.
 
Run n Spread said:
Crikey it is serious. I figured Haddin had been bought in more as a concenus builder and unifying good bloke type figure.

What has Clarke done to be so unpopular? (besides the boat thing) Is it a personality issue, leadership approach or personal issues with members of the team? The selectors considering removing him after he made so many runs, has achieved OK results till India and been tactically very good strikes me as very drastic. i.e. Has he tried the Mark Neld approach and got some off side or he just doesn't have mates in the team?

OR

How much of this is actually caused by Clarke been a selector? Yes the captain leads and has responsibilities but is still a member of the 11 and a team mate. And in a team sport where mate-ship, team work etc are encouraged and necessary having him stand in judgement over said team mates is a dangerous situation and perception can be everything. So if Clarke was to give up the selectors role could this possibly alleviate some bad blood which has been built up? Team mates could then work together and take Clarke how they like as a bloke rather than perceive him as a team mate having sides or out to get them etc.
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The boat thing, then homework gate, Lyon getting dropped after the 1st Test and told he has technical issues, the Katich saga, were do you want to start? Hussey retired for family reasons, but he certainly wasn't thrilled by the behaviour of the new Captain. Clarke enshrined as Captain and now with the official selectorial role is the most powerful man in cricket in the country. I would suggest to you that the way he uses that power is not universally liked or accepted by a section of the current and recent past members of that team. You don't instantly gain the respect of the team just because your the captain. Clarke is a fantastic player and on field tactician, but off field clearly there are some issues and behaviours that have left him in this position. Talk is cheap, his actions off field are the only way he can bridge the gap and unify the team.
 
Run n Spread said:
So is it a good idea the captain has that much power? I remember on the 2001 ashes tour the captain and vice captain were selectors and excluded Slater for disciplinary reasons and it certainly bought bad blood along with it. So much so that it was abandoned.

The homework thing is interesting as Clarke was not the only player complaining about the lax standards but seen as he had the power to act it would've got noses out of joint. Particularly as he had the backing of CA. The aggrieved would have thought they had no where to turn.
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My opinion - NO! but that was one of the recommendations of the Argus review and so it became. Captains have always and quite rightly should have a say in who is in their team, but they shouldn't have all the say and and I think the Clarke, Arthur combination have a bit too much power in that regard. Digger Hilditch used to cop all the blame in the past, but I can assure you despite not having an official seat at the table, RT Ponting had more than just a passing input in who made the teams under his direction.

Australian cricket is really at the crossroads, with Hussey going we have seen the last of the old style player developed through the grade / state system. Hussey wasn't ready to play Test cricket at 25, but he was by 30. Now we have what I would term the "Milo cricketers", players raised on a different system and seemingly given more opportunities on a number of levels much earlier than ever before. They are very much individual first before team and that's a pretty big turnaround from where we were. You still have salt of the earth blokes like, Siddle, Lyon etc, but there are less and less. Team harmony moving forward will possibly be the biggest challenge.
 
western royboy said:
My opinion - NO! but that was one of the recommendations of the Argus review and so it became. Captains have always and quite rightly should have a say in who is in their team, but they shouldn't have all the say and and I think the Clarke, Arthur combination have a bit too much power in that regard. Digger Hilditch used to cop all the blame in the past, but I can assure you despite not having an official seat at the table, RT Ponting had more than just a passing input in who made the teams under his direction.

Australian cricket is really at the crossroads, with Hussey going we have seen the last of the old style player developed through the grade / state system. Hussey wasn't ready to play Test cricket at 25, but he was by 30. Now we have what I would term the "Milo cricketers", players raised on a different system and seemingly given more opportunities on a number of levels much earlier than ever before. They are very much individual first before team and that's a pretty big turnaround from where we were. You still have salt of the earth blokes like, Siddle, Lyon etc, but there are less and less. Team harmony moving forward will possibly be the biggest challenge.
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Interesting observation. Especially considering Siddle started club cricket at 16 and went through that system and Lyon was a grade cricketer who was promoted to SA had a couple of good games then suddenly found himself playing for Australia.
 
King Elvis said:
I think Warner is a massive dickhead, but CA are a joke.

$5k fine for this?

What crap.

And then Clarke saying "Davey" (he actually called him that, for Christ sakes) still had the potential to be our next Captain?

**** off.
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Yeah, Clarke would have done that to show solidarity and standing behind his man. Not the time to do it.
 

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"I can understand what the captain and coach were trying to achieve but I'm not sure I totally agree with what happened," he said. "I don't know for sure how I would have handled that situation but those type of things didn't happen when I was captain."
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From Ponting; probably because most of the team actually liked him.
 

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SEN really hyping it up, saying it could be put his career in jeopardy. I'm curious
 

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