Analysis Defensive Stocks.

[Golumless]

Ok, what we saw today was arguably the worst case scenario we could have, Talia goes down injured and then us staring down the barrel of a Talia and Ruttenless defense and one thing we saw from that game... is it failed miserably.

So, right now, where are we at with defensive stocks?

Breaking it down a bit, the two shining lights of the defense is Talia and Brown (in terms of pure stoppers), it's rare any player gets on top of these two. I'd also say, with Brown, small defenders are sorted.

However, 2nd/3rd tall...next season is a combination of
Otten: who.. as a swing-man i don't mind, but isn't a KPD
Hartigan: who is very inexperienced
L.Thompson: who is out of his depth
Shaw: who has arguably the worst disposal in the league.
Siggins: God knows

Yeah, less said the better.

How do we fix this, ideally we'd want an Ottens/Pods on the bench as a swingman that can change up matchups and give us flexibility.

Running defenders is one i don't feel is a huge problem, but i pose the question, can we play 3 of Jaesnch, Henderson and Smith in the side without releasing one of them to midfield minutes? All 3 are ok defenders (except Smith who is quite good defensively), good attackers and do the loose role in defense well but could we be using the spot in the side for the 3rd of them more efficiently?

 

[Scorpus]

I'd play Talia, Hartigan, LT as our three main defenders. Otten maybe as swingman, but you can't play him and Pods. Even without Pods, it's iffy whether he'd be needed with three talls at either end.

Draft a good KPD who we can develop with the intent on replacing Hartigan or LT if they turn out to be bad choices. I liked the look of Hartigan earlier this year, he just lacked composure when disposing under pressure, likely because he's only played 10 games.

As Hartigan is injured, he replaces Rutten next year. Otten's spot is being occupied by Pods at the moment, but can be used in Hartigan's spot if we don't want to play the very slow Rutten.

 

[mattymac]

Surely David "I just secured Lolbagz MacKay for 4 years" Noble has this sorted so no need to worry




In real life its pretty obvious we're fooked

 

[ruscy002]

Our best back six is good, losing Talia is unfortunate but thems the breaks.

Our next back six sucks, but this isn't the end of the world if our best back six stays fit.

Midfield pressure, modern footy. We are failing at this.

 

[simmo97]

we need to recruit KPP for both ends because Mckernan and Johnston are not the answer.

 

[Golumless]

Our best back six is good, losing Talia is unfortunate but thems the breaks.

Our next back six sucks, but this isn't the end of the world if our best back six stays fit.

Midfield pressure, modern footy. We are failing at this.

I'd say 3 of our best 6 are great, right now, they are Talia, Brown and Smith, there are 3 positions where if we improve on with good players, it could make up that difference between 7-10th to 1st-4th.

It's papering over cracks right now. The cracks got exposed today.

 

[mattymac]

Our biggest problem by far is lack of class and spread in the midfield. Guys like MacKay, Wright and Martin would not be getting a game at most clubs. They're ok, but don't hurt hurt you and will make the errors to let you off the hook regularly. Makes it hard to maintain any kind of pressure with weak links in the chain like that.

Dangerfield is way below his best. A previous top 3 player league-wide slipping out of the top 10 if something isn't done. The coach (I use the term lightly) needs to A) rest him, and B) pull him out of the media circus he is in and force him to concentrate on football. I mean that, he is doing too much media and not enough ass kicking. The balance is way out and needs to be corrected. Otherwise I'm happy for him to go to Geelong.

Thompson needs to retire. My god he is slow as a mule on the spread. Somehow we made West Coast look pacey today.

We have a 2 stage midfield. The 1st stage is filled with guns underperforming due to age, injury and distraction, and the second stage is stocked with triers that remind Sando of himself. We don't apply the kind of pressure to opposition forward entries that we need to to give our back six a chance.

 

[Dangerousfield]

I'd say 3 of our best 6 are great, right now, they are Talia, Brown and Smith, there are 3 positions where if we improve on with good players, it could make up that difference between 7-10th to 1st-4th

And who pray of the top 4 are we going to displace in the next 2-3 years? In that time the GWS juggernaught of a full team of top 20 picks will be really rolling along, Gold Coast might also be up there, don't see any falling off in Hawthorn or Sydney, Gellong appear to be rebuilding successfully. Not much room for us with or without a "great" back 6.

 

[SloaneysDanger]

We need to recruit a KPD in the off-season and get rid of the deadweight.

I cannot see Thompson, Hartigan, Siggins, Shaw and Otten doing anything special in the years to come.

We all know Tals is a star but who else is even capable of doing what he does right now? No one is.

Thompson - keep
Otten - keep
Hartigan - keep
Shaw - sack
Siggins - sack

We NEED a CHB it's as as simple as that. What we have right now isn't getting us anywhere anytime soon.

 

[mattymac]

One thing...after watching us without Talia today I kind of wish the Phil Davis thing wasn't just a Roweism

 

[mattymac]

Trade Otto. He's better as a forward and we don't need him

 

[Golumless]

And who pray of the top 4 are we going to displace in the next 2-3 years? In that time the GWS juggernaught of a full team of top 20 picks will be really rolling along, Gold Coast might also be up there, don't see any falling off in Hawthorn or Sydney, Gellong appear to be rebuilding successfully. Not much room for us with or without a "great" back 6.

You're right, we should just start tanking for picks, lose every game etc... seriously, that post was a joke.

GWS are what, 3 season in and done... well... absolutely nothing, could potentially lose both Cameron and Boyd this season and are going to be looking in real strife... right now, they are the same distance away as Melbourne is to winning a grand final, regardless of how many million first rounders they have.

You could say who are we going to displace out of those three and if we are good enough, we will displace them. They are not infinitely better then the competition, never to drop below 4th ever again. One of the areas that has the most potential to improve is our defense, get two/three better players in there and a we are a lot closer to that elusive flag.

 

[1970crow]

Reckon hartigan will end up good. He's tall, strong and mobile. He's played less than a dozen games, averages 15 touches, with 4.5 of them contested. He's mid table for clangers per game, so it's not as bad as some make it out to be. What I really like about him was that there were a couple of games in a row (dogs was one) where he was beaten in a couple of 1:1's early or made a god-awful disposal error, but pulled it together and turned it around for the rest of the game.

I think our coaching group panic with inexperienced players. They also shy away from exposing them to hot games, preferring to go back to out of form seniors and hoping they turn it around. I think hartigan suffered from this coaching culture, but will end up being close to a 200 gamer.

I don't think jaensch is a long term defensive solution, I'd rather laird in his position.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Quality 2nd and 3rd tall defenders are yet to be recruited.

 

[glengowan]

Too bad the Crows didn't persist with Ellis-Yolmen as a defender who can take talls or smalls. He is bulkier than the likes of Thompson and Otten (who get pushed off way too easily) although not quite as tall. A possible Dale Morris type.

 

[Smithalicious]

Would have liked to have seen if CEY could have made it off the HBF/3rd tall defender.
Laird should go back into defence for Jaensch, J is just too panicky in defence and Laird has good disposal but not the penetration or run of Jaensch.
Otten should be the Pods swingman. He looked decent last year as a forward/swingman/2nd ruck.

 

[Interloperer]

Reckon hartigan will end up good. He's tall, strong and mobile. He's played less than a dozen games, averages 15 touches, with 4.5 of them contested. He's mid table for clangers per game, so it's not as bad as some make it out to be. What I really like about him was that there were a couple of games in a row (dogs was one) where he was beaten in a couple of 1:1's early or made a god-awful disposal error, but pulled it together and turned it around for the rest of the game.

I think our coaching group panic with inexperienced players. They also shy away from exposing them to hot games, preferring to go back to out of form seniors and hoping they turn it around. I think hartigan suffered from this coaching culture, but will end up being close to a 200 gamer.

I don't think jaensch is a long term defensive solution, I'd rather laird in his position.

Hartigan's got a lot of potential if he can get the occasional spectacular error out of his game. I was impressed when he put in a respectable showing against Carlton despite them singling him out as a weak-link and targeting forward entries to his man.

 

[BobaFett]

Would have liked to have seen if CEY could have made it off the HBF/3rd tall defender.
Laird should go back into defence for Jaensch, J is just too panicky in defence and Laird has good disposal but not the penetration or run of Jaensch.
Otten should be the Pods swingman. He looked decent last year as a forward/swingman/2nd ruck.

Jaensch and laird is interesting

Coach would of had brown and laird as our two defensive smells heading into the season. Jaensch had been very good this year, and I prefer him to laird down there because brown and laird are too similar. But all of a sudden laird has become so good in the coaches eyes he is now in our top 7 mids, or one of our forwards. He is a witches hat up forward, and doesn't have attributes to succeed in the midfield.

I think we can only play 2 out of brown, jaensch and laird. Brown stays, and I think jaensch gets the nod. Laird isn't best 22 unless he is back pocket. When jaensch falls away, bring him back in

 

[TheGriff6]

Need to go after Frawley very hard all the people saying he cant kick etc were not recruiting him to be a play maker were recruiting him to shut down his man something none of our key defenders could do against the Eagles

 

[mattymac]

Need to go after Frawley very hard all the people saying he cant kick etc were not recruiting him to be a play maker were recruiting him to shut down his man something none of our key defenders could do against the Eagles

We don't have that kind of money after splurging on MacKay. That was no doubt a large chunk of our FA money, but we missed our targets so pissed it up the wall instead

 

[TheGriff6]

We don't have that kind of money after splurging on MacKay. That was no doubt a large chunk of our FA money, but we missed our targets so pissed it up the wall instead

Have plenty of money if you get rid of all the other mediocre players like Otten L Thompson Janech etc

Or we could show some stones and be ruthless and offer a Buddy type deal like Sydney

 

[Crows4Eva]

Nothing is more apparent after yesterday than the fact that we desperately need another quality key defender. Once Talia went down, Kennedy just did as he pleased. LT isn't AFL standard, Hartigan is not consistent enough, Rutten is retiring and Pods can't play a key defensive role as much as Sando would like to believe he can.

During this years trade period, we need to do everything possible to get our hands on another key defender. Second on the list is a back up ruckman who isn't complete rubbish aka McKernan and Graham.

 

[StonesThrow]

Kennedy was doing as he pleased on Talia as well.

I don't rate Thompson with the ball. Same with Hartigan. I'm sick of having average kicks in the team.

 

[Cap]

FA or bust

 

[Tex200]

Our biggest problem by far is lack of class and spread in the midfield. Guys like MacKay, Wright and Martin would not be getting a game at most clubs. They're ok, but don't hurt hurt you and will make the errors to let you off the hook regularly. Makes it hard to maintain any kind of pressure with weak links in the chain like that.

Dangerfield is way below his best. A previous top 3 player league-wide slipping out of the top 10 if something isn't done. The coach (I use the term lightly) needs to A) rest him, and B) pull him out of the media circus he is in and force him to concentrate on football. I mean that, he is doing too much media and not enough ass kicking. The balance is way out and needs to be corrected. Otherwise I'm happy for him to go to Geelong.

Thompson needs to retire. My god he is slow as a mule on the spread. Somehow we made West Coast look pacey today.

We have a 2 stage midfield. The 1st stage is filled with guns underperforming due to age, injury and distraction, and the second stage is stocked with triers that remind Sando of himself. We don't apply the kind of pressure to opposition forward entries that we need to to give our back six a chance.

This x 100. Yesterday was a product of a diabolical midfield performance. Players all day waltzing through the middle with no pressure - free to deliver to leading forwards.

I would excuse much of our defensive work based upon the laziness of the midfield