Demons linked to Dank

[IanW]

so what do you think McKenzie and Baker were on about here?



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-find-bill-for-banned-drug-20130426-2ikou.html#ixzz2RcJsQxy8
Are you going to tell them that they should read the legislation like you though you could say to the legal academic? Are they just confused? Have they just not done their homework?


Or, and this is way out there, or are there factors at play that you simply aren't aware of?

Just as a side-note, you are still banging on about CAS? Read your own cut and pastes for crying out loud:

the Club may be subject to sanctions to be determined, in their absolute discretion, by the Commission.

Can you read? By the Commission. In THEIR ABSOLUTE DISCRETION.

Of course its going to face legal challenges - Essendon have lawyered up, and Hird has seperately lawyered up.

Still doesnt change a fact, which is Calzada's managing director is happy to get up in front of any court or tribunal and say 'We make AOD-9604. Its not approved for human theraputic use anywhere'.

He's also going to confirm their human trials were not done with the substance being injected, and will be unable to give an opinion on whether or not doing that is safe.

So, yeah, thats why I think Im right.

Because the WADA rules say what they say, and its a provable fact that AOD-9604 is not approved for human theraputic use anywhere on the planet.

And its mind boggling that you've read enough to know AOD-9604 was tested as pills, and Essendon was injecting it, and you dont seem to have any problem with that.

 

[mxett]

Of course its going to face legal challenges - Essendon have lawyered up, and Hird has seperately lawyered up.

Still doesnt change a fact, which is Calzada's managing director is happy to get up in front of any court or tribunal and say 'We make AOD-9604. Its not approved for human theraputic use anywhere'.

He's also going to confirm their human trials were not done with the substance being injected, and will be unable to give an opinion on whether or not doing that is safe.

So, yeah, thats why I think Im right.

Because the WADA rules say what they say, and its a provable fact that AOD-9604 is not approved for human theraputic use anywhere on the planet.

And its mind boggling that you've read enough to know AOD-9604 was tested as pills, and Essendon was injecting it, and you dont seem to have any problem with that.

Essendon haven't come out and said they injected it. It seems Melbourne used it as a cream

 

[Lance Uppercut]

And its mind boggling that you've read enough to know AOD-9604 was tested as pills, and Essendon was injecting it, and you dont seem to have any problem with that.

I'm not sure it's confirmed we were injecting it, is it?

 

[IanW]

I'm not sure it's confirmed we were injecting it, is it?

*shrug*

"The use of vitamins by athletes and football players is not banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency unless the dosages exceed a certain amount. But the bombers were also given injections by Mr Dank of anti-obesity drug AOD-9604, which WADA banned on Tuesday. The use of this drug may yet lead to players or the club facing doping sanctions, although any such prosecution by doping authorities is likely to face legal challenges."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-find-bill-for-banned-drug-20130426-2ikou.html

Now, McKenzie and Baker are more cautious than I am. But note the "were also given injections" - not 'Fairfax understands' or 'we have been told' - "were also given injections"

On one level, it wont matter whether it was injected or used as a cream - S0 doesnt deal with delivery methods.

On another level, AOD-9604 appeared to be pretty safe when used as a pill. But injected ? Dunno. And neither does anyone else.

To quote someone or other

"I'm shocked by the complexity of the substances, the potential injurious nature of these substances," Demetriou said on Thursday.
"I'm horrified as a parent that - if true - young men were being injected with these substances.
"It's a terribly disturbing situation."


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demetriou-disturbed-by-allegations-20130411-2ho1t.html#ixzz2RcSCVuUl

 

[Lance Uppercut]

fair enough then, that's why I asked the question.

Unlike some, I respect Baker and McKenzie enough to believe they know what they are talking about.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Melbourne's involvement places the AFL in an awkward position. If they punish Essendon hard, they're obliged to punish Melbourne hard and perhaps crush them out of existence. Go easy on both and they invoke the wrath of WADA.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Melbourne's involvement places the AFL in an awkward position. If they punish Essendon hard, they're obliged to punish Melbourne hard and perhaps crush them out of existence. Go easy on both and they invoke the wrath of WADA.

Have you even read the latest articles on this??

Or have you just accepted the paradigm that Melbourne have been mentioned and therefore it must all be exactly the same?

Sheeple

 

[IanW]

Have you even read the latest articles on this??

Or have you just accepted the paradigm that Melbourne have been mentioned and therefore it must all be exactly the same?

Sheeple

Its going to be easier to show the doping wasnt systematic at Melbourne - they can probably just plead guilty, throw the ex-team doctor under the bus, have him cop a 4 year ban for organising the trafficking, have the players cop their six months in a season when Melbourne arent probably going to play finals.

If theres communication between, say, the doctor and the head coach about this, or between dank and the head coach, then this plan gets a lot more difficult.

 

[mxett]

Have you even read the latest articles on this??

Or have you just accepted the paradigm that Melbourne have been mentioned and therefore it must all be exactly the same?

Sheeple

What has changed in the latest articles for Melbourne?

 

[Higgs Boson]

Its going to be easier to show the doping wasnt systematic at Melbourne - they can probably just plead guilty, throw the ex-team doctor under the bus, have him cop a 4 year ban for organising the trafficking, have the players cop their six months in a season when Melbourne arent probably going to play finals.

If theres communication between, say, the doctor and the head coach about this, or between dank and the head coach, then this plan gets a lot more difficult.

There's no evidence - even the soft stuff that Bigfooty sheep like - of anything systematic at Melbourne.

But you keep on at it.

 

[IanW]

There's no evidence - even the soft stuff that Bigfooty sheep like - of anything systematic at Melbourne.

But you keep on at it.

Higgs,

Yes. Thats what Im saying. Melbourne doesnt appear to be systematic, team-level doping, with meetings and forms and everything.

 

[Higgs Boson]

What has changed in the latest articles for Melbourne?

My point is that there is very little similarity between Melbourne and Essendon. Dank. Yes. AOD. Yes - re one player allegedly. Ergo, a suggestion that the AFL are in a bind because what happens to Essendon might crush Melbourne? Dumb.

Don't let me be misunderstood - Melbourne has not done much to make it appear less incompetent in recent times. But nevertheless.

And to answer your question directly - Baker and McKenzie have apparently concluded that none of the nasty banned substances were used by Melbourne - except for a single tube of AOD cream.

I'm feeling a lot better about things this morning. Again, there's no evidence my club is not dumb nor incompetent. But I don't think we're looking at multiple player bans. Or trafficking <snip> what even is this suggestion I don't know

 

[mxett]

Higgs,

Yes. Thats what Im saying. Melbourne doesnt appear to be systematic, team-level doping, with meetings and forms and everything.

There's no evidence of team doping at Essendon either. The team wide supplement scheme was reportedly using WADA compliant supplements.

AOD has been reported as used on specific cases, similar to Melbourne

 

[Higgs Boson]

Higgs,

Yes. Thats what Im saying. Melbourne doesnt appear to be systematic, team-level doping, with meetings and forms and everything.

Thank you for clarifying. The trafficking suggestion seems a little OTT though. To say the least

 

[Bluelegs]

''If there was an association [between Dank and Bates], regardless of whether there has been an employment agreement, I think that would have been relevant to our briefings,'' said Demetriou. ''This issue of ethics and trust in our code … is something that you can't play ping-pong with.''

The comments were seized upon in the media and the cover-up drums began beating hard.

A senior official at the club agrees that Bates' conduct is serious, but says that Demons officials are furious that the AFL has not publicly acknowledged that in February the club did pass on details to McLachlan about Dank's links to Bates and Thurin's planned review.
Club insiders say that the AFL never requested a copy of this review and did not send an investigator to interview Bates until the day after 7.30 aired. That same day, Bates stood down from the club.

Says the senior official: ''We are a football club, not an investigation agency. The AFL and the government have all the powers to do in-depth investigations and they keep saying that they know more than everybody else. To say that the club as a whole tried to cover anything up or mislead the AFL is a joke.''


Read more:http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dealing-with-dank-20130426-2ik8y.html#ixzz2RcYdlCtx

I feel that this part is a really important point of the article in that the AFL have hung Melbourne out to dry over something that they are just as much at fault in. The entirety of the AFL seem painfully out of their depth here. Vlad will make a series of big claims (i.e. "Hird should consider standing down/aside", "I'm privvy to information most aren't", "This information is inconsistent with Melbourne's initial report") and then he will either backtrack saying that he was taken out of context or in Melbourne's case he hasn't corrected himself at all.

 

[Higgs Boson]

I feel that this part is a really important point of the article in that the AFL have hung Melbourne out to dry over something that they are just as much at fault in. The entirety of the AFL seem painfully out of their depth here. Vlad will make a series of big claims (i.e. "Hird should consider standing down/aside", "I'm privvy to information most aren't", "This information is inconsistent with Melbourne's initial report") and then he will either backtrack saying that he was taken out of context or in Melbourne's case he hasn't corrected himself at all.

This is a very important part. Much criticism has been levelled at Melbourne for apparently being disingenuous with the AFL and not disclosing everything. This appears not to be the case.

And to be fair, Vlad didn't come out all guns blazing to say Hird should consider standing down. It was in response to repeated questioning which he danced around for a while IRC

 

[IanW]

Thank you for clarifying. The trafficking suggestion seems a little OTT though.

If you had have told me this time last year that a football team's team doctor was going to send people to go get dosed with experimental drugs that are not approved for human use, I'd have thought that to have been OTT too.

 

[IanW]

There's no evidence of team doping at Essendon either. The team wide supplement scheme was reportedly using WADA compliant supplements.

AOD has been reported as used on specific cases, similar to Melbourne

No evidence, apart from the team meetings, the signed forms, the communication between dank and the head coach and the club paying for drugs.

Oh, and a permission letter they didnt keep a copy of.

 

[mxett]

No evidence, apart from the team meetings, the signed forms, the communication between dank and the head coach and the club paying for drugs.

Oh, and a permission letter they didnt keep a copy of.

None of which describe WADA banned substances given to the entire team

 

[IanW]

None of which describe WADA banned substances given to the entire team

Everything that was given, was given by the team.

No one went behind the back of the club, to get that little edge.

This, essentially, is why the club is completely f.cked when this gets to CAS.

Because this is Festina.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Trafficking @IanW's crowning foolishness

 

[blackcat]

I'm not sure it's confirmed we were injecting it, is it?

i'v heard the cream works well as a facial moisturiser. or this is the advice i offer

 

[Theo X]

•Confidential documents show the Demons told league officials in February that their club doctor, Dan Bates, had "communications" with Mr Dank and that players had been given vitamin injections at an external clinic.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-find-bill-for-banned-drug-20130426-2ikou.html#ixzz2RcvbuqAf​

So we did tell the AFL about Dank in Feb, where's our public apology Dimitriou you idiot.​

 

[Higgs Boson]

•Confidential documents show the Demons told league officials in February that their club doctor, Dan Bates, had "communications" with Mr Dank and that players had been given vitamin injections at an external clinic.

​

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-find-bill-for-banned-drug-20130426-2ikou.html#ixzz2RcvbuqAf​

So we did tell the AFL about Dank in Feb, where's our public apology Dimitriou you idiot.​

I don't need an apology. Quiet, smug satisfaction will do me fine.

 

[LBJ6]

Its going to be easier to show the doping wasnt systematic at Melbourne - they can probably just plead guilty, throw the ex-team doctor under the bus, have him cop a 4 year ban for organising the trafficking, have the players cop their six months in a season when Melbourne arent probably going to play finals.

If theres communication between, say, the doctor and the head coach about this, or between dank and the head coach, then this plan gets a lot more difficult.

Players? Are you privy to information that the rest of the public aren't?