Dennis Pagan

[The Kouta]

Is Dennis the right man for the job or do the Blues need a change???

Just want to know what everyones oppinions are.

 

[HBF]

I'm not sure too many other coaches could have done much better considering the list we had.

However, IMO, he does need to alter his coaching style as we do not have a dominant CHF so we can play that Pagan Paddock game plan.

Would like to see what he can do with a half decent list, which we seem to be building atm. I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for another year or so, but he will need to start delivering some results soon.

So in summing up, i'll just keep sitting on this fence until I fall off!!

 

[juzza316]

"Dennis" Pagan might be great for the job , as "Denis" Pagan has not done much in his time at the Blues

 

[The Kouta]

"Dennis" Pagan might be great for the job , as "Denis" Pagan has not done much in his time at the Blues

No1 likes a smarta$$

 

[Muji]

true that kouta, we're all blues fans here, who cares if its mispelt we all know who he means so stop it guys.

 

[juzza316]

true that kouta, we're all blues fans here, who cares if its mispelt we all know who he means so stop it guys.

I was only kidding. I only thought of it as a guy at my work spells his name (Denis) and gets annoyed because everything that comes his way is spelt "Dennis".

 

[Funkalicous]

If I was offered the chance to replace Pagan without paying out his salary, I'd take it. I'm just not a fan of his cop-out excuses..... or failure for that matter.

Hopefully he does something though. Afterall, we're stuck with him for the next 3 years.

 

[HBF]

If I was offered the chance to replace Pagan without paying out his salary, I'd take it. I'm just not a fan of his cop-out excuses..... or failure for that matter.

Hopefully he does something though. Afterall, we're stuck with him for the next 3 years.

I really think we need to be careful about "Pagan Bashing"!.

As I have said, not too many other coaches could have done better with our list as it stood/stands.

I will conceed however that, like I have said, he needs to look at his gameplan and re-think it.

 

[Funkalicous]

As I have said, not too many other coaches could have done better with our list as it stood/stands.

That's just your opinion though. We'll never know for sure. Besides, when we're talking about a "better job", we're not talking about much....

 

[HBF]

That's just your opinion though. We'll never know for sure. Besides, when we're talking about a "better job", we're not talking about much....

When Pagan firstly came to Carlton, he was considered one of the best coaches in the caper - no doubt about it.

There was talk about Wallace coming to Carlton at the time, but given the choice between the two, i'd take Pagan any day. Pagan has the runs and the board, and IMO, he is just a better all round coach.

I still believe he is the best man for the job, but I believe our next coach needs to be one of the younger breed - O'Donnell, Harvey, even Hardwick, etc, etc.

 

[OZBomb]

Chris Bond or pehaps Silvagni are the guys to lead Carlton for me.

Unimpressed by Pagan's performance thus far, even given the list limitations.

 

[Muji]

oh no.. not silvagni

 

[bibi01]

considering:

we lost 3 top 5 draft picks + 2 more top 20 draft picks
we lost the ability to trade into round 1 and 2 of the drafts for a couple of years
had an aging list that had been neglected
the club was in turmoil

i think he had done a pretty good job, sure he could have done things better or differently, but no one is perfect

in 2004 we had 10 wins and we have won a pre season comp, the signs are there that progress has been made/can be made under pagan
yeah pre season comp means very little but the semi's and GF games are pretty serious

2004 showed pagan can get the job done but the job to re build carlton was not going to happen over night

our penalties for salary cap breeches set the club back 5 years

i doubt any coach would have done much better, yeah maybe a couple more wins but not much more than that

the afl is set up in a way where you have to build a team, you can no longer just go out and buy players to plug the holes in your team

its easy to put all the blame on the coach or 1 player but the whole group need to take responsibility

pagan may not get the ultimate success with carlton that being a GF win, but he is laying the foundation for the future success of carlton.

whoever takes over from him is going to enjoy the success of the pain and hardwork the pagan era went through at carlton, being the coach of carlton at the moment, you are basically on a hiding to nothing.

 

[mojo31]

Some players are a little bit concerned over a few things at this stage with Denis. Lets hope the issue does not get any worse and the playing group as a whole are right behind him.

A few really bad results early on in the season will consign the club to a poor season. We need to play reasonable well early and build confidence in the young list. Does not mean we need to win in the first 3 games as they will be tough but be competitive and then look to win a few of the next ones after that when we have an easy draw.
Getting thrashed early will likely signal a year like 2005 again.

 

[murphster]

When Pagan firstly came to Carlton, he was considered one of the best coaches in the caper - no doubt about it.

There was talk about Wallace coming to Carlton at the time, but given the choice between the two, i'd take Pagan any day. Pagan has the runs and the board, and IMO, he is just a better all round coach.

I still believe he is the best man for the job, but I believe our next coach needs to be one of the younger breed - O'Donnell, Harvey, even Hardwick, etc, etc.

Wallace would have been a good coach for Carlton at least he lets his players play with some flair and freedom.
David Rhys Jones for the next Carlton Coach

 

[Stig O'Hara]

He seems to have changed the game plan into more of a possession thing.

Last couple of years, Carlton has had the least possessions,
most long kicks into 50 and most long kicks,
but from what i have gleaned over the last couple of weeks,
they are getting higher possy numbers,
maybe there is a change in the setup.

Anythoughts?

 

[bibi01]

Some players are a little bit concerned over a few things at this stage with Denis. Lets hope the issue does not get any worse and the playing group as a whole are right behind him.

A few really bad results early on in the season will consign the club to a poor season. We need to play reasonable well early and build confidence in the young list. Does not mean we need to win in the first 3 games as they will be tough but be competitive and then look to win a few of the next ones after that when we have an easy draw.
Getting thrashed early will likely signal a year like 2005 again.

what type of concerns?

coaching style
game plan
interaction with youngsters
training drills

 

[Muji]

The Hammerheads coach

 

[mojo31]

He seems to have changed the game plan into more of a possession thing.

Last couple of years, Carlton has had the least possessions,
most long kicks into 50 and most long kicks,
but from what i have gleaned over the last couple of weeks,
they are getting higher possy numbers,
maybe there is a change in the setup.

Anythoughts?

Tinkering with the game plan. More switching of the play and running with the ball. Taking players on and running maxiumum distance before a likely long kick.

Having said that all teams are going to be doing that. All teams will be increasing the possession count. The question is are we actually going to gain on other teams or only increase as much as they do.

2003 - 269 Carlton possessions league average 15 teams : 300
2004 - 271.3 vs 298
2005 - 283.5 vs 314

so we have increased by 14 and so has the league average of the other clubs. So basically we are continuing a trend of the league as a whole.

 

[mojo31]

what type of concerns?

coaching style
game plan
interaction with youngsters
training drills

Interaction with players. Coaches instructions in games. Feedback after the game. Where playes are being played and how they are being developed.

 

[bibi01]

Interaction with players. Coaches instructions in games. Feedback after the game. Where playes are being played and how they are being developed.

that is a little disappointing to hear and without personally knowing the coach or playing group and seeing them in their environment it is hard to know if it is mostly a coaching shortfall or a players shortfall

coach and players need to be able to interact and have a good relationship, a coach doesn't need to be their best made and is not their to be their mother they are professional athletes, but a coach needs to guide them

where players are being played- isn't that the coahing staffs job???
we have been poor for 4 of the last 5 years, we have to do different things with players positions and roles, these days footballers need to have more than 1 string to their bow

players being developed, this is a real concern especially with a young list like ours

Coaches instructions in games, well this may explain results

from what i hear and read i think there is a real communication break down at the club and it seems as the coachs and players expectations are on two different pages.

all this is suprising as pagan had such a good reputation especially with u/19 footballers and moduling a group of players into a team.

 

[budda]

As a kangaroo fan, pagan is not worth the money he is on ,dont forget when he was at north the players he had my grandma would have had success with, left the roos when a lot of our great players were nearing the end of thier carreer. He is not half the coach he is made up to be as it is showing at the moment.

 

[bibi01]

As a kangaroo fan, pagan is not worth the money he is on ,dont forget when he was at north the players he had my grandma would have had success with, left the roos when a lot of our great players were nearing the end of thier carreer. He is not half the coach he is made up to be as it is showing at the moment.

how much credit do you give pagan for norths success through out the 90's??

2 GF wins and 8 PF in 9 years

surely a fair bit of credit has to be given to pagan who developed most of these great players from u/19 to AFL and then to keep that group of players together and performing at such a consisten level for that long.

it is one thing to have talent and potential and it is another to actually fulfill that potential.

 

[HBF]

Interaction with players. Coaches instructions in games. Feedback after the game. Where playes are being played and how they are being developed.

You seem to have a fair amount of knowledge when it comes to the "rumblings" at Carlton. Any chance you might be on their payroll, or just a very keen observer and follower?

 

[irish_setanta]

In pagans defence at north he inherited a very good list of young players, at carlton he inherited a old list with no potential and no draft picks, he has moved alot of those players on and over the next 3 years he will build a list that will again be a force. Honestly where is no one who could have done any better over the last 3 years, and in 3 years from now we will hopefully be singing his praises.