Derek Hine - The List Part 1

[Matz]

Just saw this on the Collingwood website and thought it was a pretty good read.

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/127346/default.aspx

"I think that with the boys who we brought in, there are two or three of those guys who are definitely able to play senior football at some stage next year. Jackson is physically ready to go. There’s no doubt about that. I think Jackson’s certainly a very good chance.

I think that Jamie Elliott is a better chance as well, and the way that he’s prepared himself and the feedback that we’re getting from the coaches is that he may well play senior football. As with Peter Yagmoor as well. They’re very happy with the way those boys have gone but, again, it’s very, very early days. We couldn’t be happier with the way that they’ve approached it and they’ve been accepted into the group."

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/127346/default.aspx

 

[Ed D]

It's encouraging to hear but it's still going to be tough for any of the new recruits to break into the side.

 

[mattys123]

The more I see of Derek Hine the more I swear he's related to DTM/Tradedraft.

Good read, you get the feeling part two may have a little more "juice".

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

There are roles that need to be filled; to replace the sure-footedness of Leon and to find a second ruck/forward. Dependent on development, maybe Yagmoor and Witts will fill these roles. Elliot may threaten Blair early for his forward position. Didak may still lack the old spark (though I doubt it) and open up his spot. A third forward tall is an offensive necessity, and Paine may aspire to becoming that tall. Marty Clarke back adds an interesting ingredient in a potent team.

Let's nurse Jolly through the year and let Wood strut whatever he has in the way of stuff.

 

[Quicky]

I think there is a good chance one of those guys will debut this season. I think it is less likely any will play a major role in the team.

The one role I do see a position is a third tall and it is good to see we have brought in some options here. There was a sameness about our forward line last season that made it more predictable and less flexible (which interestingly is the direct opposite of how we set up our defence). Too many small crumbing midfielders come forwards.

This is fine but we need a bit of a balance. Macaffer has first dibs but I think Mooney and Paine are chances and maybe even Seedsman. I wonder how Young would go forward?

 

[mattys123]

This is fine but we need a bit of a balance. Macaffer has first dibs but I think Mooney and Paine are chances and maybe even Seedsman. I wonder how Young would go forward?

The "word" out of the club is that both Ceglar and Witts will also be played predominately forward this season, and are being developed more so as forwards then rucks.

I think this actually makes a lot of sense, especially with the sub rule restricting teams to having one specialist ruckman, it would be of a great use to us to have one of Witts and Ceglar come through in the next few seasons and play that part time ruck while spending most of their time as the third tall forward.

I think it shows we have faith in Wood to take over from Jolly, whether that be a gradual move or something that happens once Jols retires, time will only tell.

 

[motr]

What attributes do you see in Young that makes you think he can play forward?

 

[Quicky]

The "word" out of the club is that both Ceglar and Witts will also be played predominately forward this season, and are being developed more so as forwards then rucks.

I think this actually makes a lot of sense, especially with the sub rule restricting teams to having one specialist ruckman, it would be of a great use to us to have one of Witts and Ceglar come through in the next few seasons and play that part time ruck while spending most of their time as the third tall forward.

I think it shows we have faith in Wood to take over from Jolly, whether that be a gradual move or something that happens once Jols retires, time will only tell.

I'm starting to really cool on that idea. What made Brown so good at it was his mobility (comparitive to many rucks) and his ability to play on a flank. I don't think Ceglar or Witts would do well in that role. And assuming they were playing a deeper role, with Cloke and Dawes up forward, it really restricts our mobility up forward which I think is a real key.

I would prefer we train them up in the Jolly mould. Teach them to read the game and push forward or back from the ruck when the time presents itself and when they are manned up on a more similarly mobile opponent.

 

[Quicky]

What attributes do you see in Young that makes you think he can play forward?

I'm not necessarily advocating that he would make a good forward more thinking out loud. I think he is an interesting option though. What he has is plenty of agility and speed for a player of his height. I think that combination with his defensive schooling might be a good fit for that third tall role where defensive ability is pivotal. I also like that he has that offensive mindset to take the game on which I think would gel well with a forward and compliment our current set up which I find a little conservative at times.

 

[Scodog10]

TBH I didn't think the interview told us anything we didn't already know. Its still early in the pre-season so its hard to gauge how certain players will fit in so all he did was tell us that the ones that have been there the longest are the most likely to step in to the senior line up.

For instance how can he comment accurately on the likes of Paine, Gault, Williams and Smith considering the interview took place prior to any of them actually training with the main group?

I appreciate the effort from the club to try and keep us more involved, but maybe he could have spoken more about the motivation for picking Gault and what position he's likely to play long term. Or the succession planning for Jolly and Taz as well as the second ruck role. IMO he could have done that without divulging to many inner sanctum secrets....

 

[TradeDraft]

TBH I didn't think the interview told us anything we didn't already know. Its still early in the pre-season so its hard to gauge how certain players will fit in so all he did was tell us that the ones that have been there the longest are the most likely to step in to the senior line up.

For instance how can he comment accurately on the likes of Paine, Gault, Williams and Smith considering the interview took place prior to any of them actually training with the main group?

I appreciate the effort from the club to try and keep us more involved, but maybe he could have spoken more about the motivation for picking Gault and what position he's likely to play long term. Or the succession planning for Jolly and Taz as well as the second ruck role. IMO he could have done that without divulging to many inner sanctum secrets....

Well that was only Part 1

 

[Scodog10]

Well that was only Part 1

Good point Dave

However I wouldn't expect too much further detail in part 2, though I would very much like to be proven wrong!

 

[Matz]

Here is the list part 2

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/127354/default.aspx

"Derek Hine: Paul Cribbin stayed back from Arizona because we were very mindful that we’d like to put size on him. He’s tackling the training really well. This time last year, in his first year in the system, he was really held back in a sense by a hernia operation. That sort of held him back for a good two months when you look at the time he was out and when he got back to full fitness, so he was chasing his tail to a certain extent"

 

[76woodenspooners]

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/127354/default.aspx

"Shae McNamara sits outside the list with Michael Hartley (NSW Scholarship rookie). He’s still over in Arizona. He’s a boy that really hasn’t had much of a go at it with injuries and so on, so we’re pleased to have Shae because he gives us support for our taller players. He can potentially come in and play a role and allows the

Jonathon Ceglars of the world to develop. We can call on him if need be."

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/127354/default.aspx

Appreciate Hine's candor, but I'd imagine it'd be a bit soul destroying for a player to know that his role is merely to support the development of others.

I would've hoped that Shae has as much opportunity as any other player to fulfil their ambition and earn a spot in the team.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

"He can potentially come in and play a role and allows the Jonathon Ceglars of the world to develop. We can call on him if need be."

Depends how you read it. It could be read "It allows the Ceglars of this world to develop in the ressies, without being exposed to the brutality of seniors. Which Shae can handle if we are desperate for talls."

 

[Sloth]

Which debutant is gonna tear it apart next year? In 2010 it was Blair, 2011 it was Fasolo. 2012..?

 

[jackcass]

Which debutant is gonna tear it apart next year? In 2010 it was Blair, 2011 it was Fasolo. 2012..?

Seedsman or Josh Thomas me thinks.

 

[vjknight]

Appreciate Hine's candor, but I'd imagine it'd be a bit soul destroying for a player to know that his role is merely to support the development of others.

I would've hoped that Shae has as much opportunity as any other player to fulfil their ambition and earn a spot in the team.

refer back to the thread regarding shae's retention on the list. many theories were put forward, including the simple fact that he is a very popular guy at the club, and retaining someone who can keep the mood positive despite their their own personal lack of success can be as important as any promising kid. being prepared to stay says a lot to me.

 

[SchuPie]

Which debutant is gonna tear it apart next year? In 2010 it was Blair, 2011 it was Fasolo. 2012..?

Don't know if they'll tear it apart but I can't wait to get down to Vic Park and watch Yagmoor and Williams.

I want Yagmoor to become our Burgoyne (no pressure kid) and Williams to become, well, just bloody good.

 

[ant22]

I have a mate who is one of the coaches in the lions reserves side up in brissy and he could not believe the suns gave up Yagamoor. He rates him very highly and said he is also a great kid with a very good attitude.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

refer back to the thread regarding shae's retention on the list. many theories were put forward, including the simple fact that he is a very popular guy at the club, and retaining someone who can keep the mood positive despite their their own personal lack of success can be as important as any promising kid. being prepared to stay says a lot to me.

The reason for keeping Shae is pretty simple.

1. We have invested a lot of time and effort into his development
2. He is cheap as hes on a rookie list.
3. We have no hardened bodies apart from Wood and Jolly so in case of injury Shae at age 28 or so is good insurance to do the crashing and bashing, and can protect the young bodies of Ceglar and Witts.
4. We didnt have the salary cap room to recruit another Leigh Brown.

Whether they are good reasons is another question altogether, but they are the reasons nevertheless.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Agree Timmy but point 2 & 4 are the same really.
Point one is largely irrelevant.
Point three however is exactly why I think he's sacked (perhaps we were looking at a trade that didn't eventuate to cover him) & in the end why we kept him.

Smart move Pies!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Fair enough re points 2 and 4....

But re point 1, considering where he has come from and the relative risk of keeping him for another year, theres really no harm done in letting him have another season. Even though you may disagree I think the effort they have already put into him is a factor in deciding to retain him.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

Another point on Shae is that he is an International Rookie outside the normal rookie list, hence he is not taking the spot of another player.
If Shae was to be included in the normal rookie list of 6 then he probably would not have survived the cut.

 

[blaze036]

Witts.