Did anyone see this?

[Lach72]

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=212&ContentID=140257

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou said revenue streams from West Coast and Fremantle were yet to be discussed as an option to offset the stalemate on what he continued to describe as unfair deals at the MCG and Etihad Stadium.

Unless he is talking about Vic teams selling games to Subi, it would be just like the AFL to try and fix their own stuff ups by ripping money out of the stronger teams

 

[Sandi2Palmer]

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=212&ContentID=140257



Unless he is talking about Vic teams selling games to Subi, it would be just like the AFL to try and fix their own stuff ups by ripping money out of the stronger teams

Could be time for a Western Conference. Im sure if Freo and WC threatened that we'd see a quick adjustment to the comp with the Melbourne Kangaroos.

 

[MadMac]

I don't think WAFC would allow any "allowances" to Vic clubs. Perhaps he meant to model the stadium deal for Vic clubs based on WA clubs.

In any case, if Vlad thinks we'll be paying North's, Bulldogs' or Demons' bills, he can get f***ed.

 

[purple hater]

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=212&ContentID=140257



Unless he is talking about Vic teams selling games to Subi, it would be just like the AFL to try and fix their own stuff ups by ripping money out of the stronger teams

Well seems Collingwood has the biggest expenditure, yet only travels four times a year, let Dimwitrio start with them first. I'd like to hear what Eddie would have to say about that!

You cant penalise teams that travel every second week for spending more than those who dont have those same costs. Surely....

 

[WA ROO]

When North Melbourne floated the idea of playing a home game @ Subi v Freo or West Coast.
The AFL stopped it and told us that we could only take games to a developing market.
Word was Freo would have jumped at it.Anyone know about that?

 

[Lach72]

Why wouldn't we? More chance of winning, less travel, fans get to watch another game as opposed to the 11 we have now.

Shit, I'd break a leg trying to get in the office to sign up

 

[masai]

When North Melbourne floated the idea of playing a home game @ Subi v Freo or West Coast.
The AFL stopped it and told us that we could only take games to a developing market.
Word was Freo would have jumped at it.Anyone know about that?

Well I reckon the Roos would get more Roos supporters through the gates at Subi than in Melbourne .......

 

[Belnakor]

Yeah the idea was floating around, going at about 500k per game. the AFL's policy is only selling games into developing markets.

Would be interesting we said ok we'll play the games in Bunbury or Broome.

 

[WA ROO]

Yeah the idea was floating around, going at about 500k per game. the AFL's policy is only selling games into developing markets.

Would be interesting we said ok we'll play the games in Bunbury or Broome.

The AFL does not consider WA a developing market.
Could have played it in Geraldton

 

[Chops_a_must]

Do this and I'll personally do my utmost to make North fold...

 

[Quinz]

When North Melbourne floated the idea of playing a home game @ Subi v Freo or West Coast.
The AFL stopped it and told us that we could only take games to a developing market.
Word was Freo would have jumped at it.Anyone know about that?

Yes, I believe both WA clubs discussed it at one point, and North would have made more than they did travelling to the Gold Coast or another area, but the AFL turned it down.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

What was Vlad's quote in 2001 with regards to us getting any AFL money?

"Sink or swim" seems to be what I remember.

 

[anchor man]

I don't know whay they don't do as the rugby are doing here now,play a game with two Melbourne teams participating.I for one would go.
I think that it will come about very soon where they will have to look at merging at least two Vic clubs.If they think that the two WA clubs should be sponsoring the failing clubs from Vic then the Golden Greeks is playing with himself.
If that is what he meant,and thats the way I read it,then there will be uproar from the WAFC,and football supporters here in the West.They may well say take the money from the Dockers but leave the Eagles alone.That would be the WAFCs idea.TheWAFC are about as much use as the two bone heads in charge of our game.

 

[smkwd]

I don't know whay they don't do as the rugby are doing here now,play a game with two Melbourne teams participating.I for one would go.
I think that it will come about very soon where they will have to look at merging at least two Vic clubs.If they think that the two WA clubs should be sponsoring the failing clubs from Vic then the Golden Greeks is playing with himself.
If that is what he meant,and thats the way I read it,then there will be uproar from the WAFC,and football supporters here in the West.They may well say take the money from the Dockers but leave the Eagles alone.That would be the WAFCs idea.TheWAFC are about as much use as the two bone heads in charge of our game.

They need a 3rd stadium in Melbourne, simple as that.

My money is on the AFL buying Princes Park (or Visy Park or whatever the fuc& it's called now) wholesale off Carlton, and running it for the weaker clubs. They have enough money to do it. Here's my take on it:

MCG - Richmond, Essendon, Collingwood, Melbourne
Ethiad - St. Kilda, Carlton, Hawthorn
Princes Park - Kangaroos, Western Bulldogs

For most teams playing interstate sides, they'll have the option of shifting their games to Princes Park where they can at least break even on the game, or to a larger ground when they expect more people to turn up. The trade off for that is the stronger clubs will always get the blockbuster games at the G or Ethiad (and the gate revenue) and it will virtually become a two tiered revenue layer, ALA the Premier League.

It's either that, or farm games out to Geelong. I doubt two teams such as Melbourne, the Kangas and Hawthorn would fill 15k at our ground, even if it was purely for novelty's sake. And playing in other states isn't a full time gig, which is what they desperately need.

The whole idea of the TV rights was to safeguard the future of the game, and if they're chipping in to get the Gold Coast off the ground, they should do the same and get a 3rd Melbourne ground up to scratch to play on. Otherwise Eyebrows is really, really shit at his job.

 

[Belnakor]

the key is to ensure that even if they aren't playing at a top notch field, the television coverage is still 1st class.

The NBL fell over in the mid 90s because they expanded too quickly and were playing games at places where the cameras made the game nigh unwatchable.

 

[Moo]

They need a 3rd stadium in Melbourne, simple as that.

...or they need Melb based clubs who actually have a core group of supporters who can meet the break even point on the existing Melb grounds.

Why the hell should the AFL be shelling out a massive amount of cash to buy a boutique ground in the AFL greatest area of strength? If they are pouring cash into West Sydney and the Gold Coast to secure the future of a national comp - can we risk shelling out any more?

I am sure the AFL will also be shelling out the big $'s to help us with a new ground?

C'mon I don't get it.

Teams like the Roos have 15K supporters - we all know it, they need a smaller ground as when 20K of the Vic supporters don't turn up they are screwed.

It is a national competition and a license should be a valuable item - if you need continual cash injections to run your club or even worse you need the AFL to basically commit to investing hundreds of millions to compensate for your lack of members .....game over, you are an amatuer club and should play in an amatuer competition.

At this rate the AFL would be better to just kill 2 clubs in Melb and spend 100 million on creating and marketing the South East Dragons FFS.

Its a national comp not a Vic comp - if Freo didn't turn a profit for 20 years and was unlikley to do so for another 20 - anyone seriously think the AFL would not execute us?

Plus if the Roos just want to whore out games to the rest of Aust - just move already.

As far as I am concerned if you can't turn a profit in Melb and you have a minimum of attendances of 30 000 to all games ...the AFL should do something, but when in reality you have a supporter base of 15K ....you would get that in Tassie, take the game to a new market and.....

By cutting 1 Melb club, that would give the likes of the Dogs another 10% igrowth in junior ranks and stop this ridiculous 'I chose to see game X on the weekend and not my team because I don't like the refracted light off the train windows on Saturdays'.

Have the balls to cull a club ....in 20 years time it will make this comp stronger and Melb may just have to put up with 2 world class stadiums, and not saddle us all with an unecessary 300 mill debt ontop of whatever GC and WS.

Sink or swim.

 

[dominguez]

A lot of good points there Moo. But I think there were 30 thousand and change at our game against the Crows earlier in the season and we would have still made a 6 figure profit on the game. Where as North with the same crowd would make a few thousand at best with the same crowd.

That's why there was such a delay on the WAFC committing to a new stadium, because they know they have a sweet deal at Subi.

 

[paul8241]

...or they need Melb based clubs who actually have a core group of supporters who can meet the break even point on the existing Melb grounds.

Why the hell should the AFL be shelling out a massive amount of cash to buy a boutique ground in the AFL greatest area of strength? If they are pouring cash into West Sydney and the Gold Coast to secure the future of a national comp - can we risk shelling out any more?

I am sure the AFL will also be shelling out the big $'s to help us with a new ground?

C'mon I don't get it.

Teams like the Roos have 15K supporters - we all know it, they need a smaller ground as when 20K of the Vic supporters don't turn up they are screwed.

It is a national competition and a license should be a valuable item - if you need continual cash injections to run your club or even worse you need the AFL to basically commit to investing hundreds of millions to compensate for your lack of members .....game over, you are an amatuer club and should play in an amatuer competition.

At this rate the AFL would be better to just kill 2 clubs in Melb and spend 100 million on creating and marketing the South East Dragons FFS.

Its a national comp not a Vic comp - if Freo didn't turn a profit for 20 years and was unlikley to do so for another 20 - anyone seriously think the AFL would not execute us?

Plus if the Roos just want to whore out games to the rest of Aust - just move already.

As far as I am concerned if you can't turn a profit in Melb and you have a minimum of attendances of 30 000 to all games ...the AFL should do something, but when in reality you have a supporter base of 15K ....you would get that in Tassie, take the game to a new market and.....

By cutting 1 Melb club, that would give the likes of the Dogs another 10% igrowth in junior ranks and stop this ridiculous 'I chose to see game X on the weekend and not my team because I don't like the refracted light off the train windows on Saturdays'.

Have the balls to cull a club ....in 20 years time it will make this comp stronger and Melb may just have to put up with 2 world class stadiums, and not saddle us all with an unecessary 300 mill debt ontop of whatever GC and WS.

Sink or swim.

Bye bye North Melbourne and Melbourne. If St Kilda and Melbourne merged, they might get that elusive premiership. North should move to West Sydney, as the West Sydney Roos. They're kidding themselves if they think the AFL should keep propping them up, when they could be offering some solutions, and keep their history alive.

 

[Memories]

A lot of good points there Moo. But I think there were 30 thousand and change at our game against the Crows earlier in the season and we would have still made a 6 figure profit on the game. Where as North with the same crowd would make a few thousand at best with the same crowd.

Moo does have a lot of good points, seems he has been reading from the Memories "North Melbourne folding" handbook.

The thing is though North only have roughly 13K what we would call dedicated members. I would say Freo now has maybe 25-28K, so pretty much double. The average north membership is something like $170 or so said a supporter in a thread, whereas the avg. Freo one is a lot more. Ticket prices in Melbourne are significantly less because the market pressure over there forces prices very low. When you think of football as a product, why would people go and watch North Melbourne play when they have the Hawks, Geelong, Collingwood or another "exciting" team? Same for a lot of the clubs when they are playing poorly.

Melbournites are spoilt for choice and the pricing reflects this, teams like Geelong which own their stadium and have their own complete region is another matter entirely. If you want to improve your revenue in Melbourne you pretty much have to reduce the competition there, cull at least two teams, 3 would be better. This way you could increase ticket prices slightly, and get more people coming to each game.

It is a blight on the game whenever there is a low crowd figure, especially continual low crowd figures. Wherever teams like Melbourne and North go they draw low crowds. Look at the Sydney final for instance, people blame Sydney supporters but why would you go in the rain to see someone beat a boring team like North? Sydney have 20K supporters in Sydney (membership wise) and that's pretty much all that turned up, anyone wanting to see a spectacle doesn't go to a North game, so you can kiss any neutrals/bandwagoners goodbye.

 

[Memories]

The NBL fell over in the mid 90s because they expanded too quickly and were playing games at places where the cameras made the game nigh unwatchable.

It was also because people realized the NBA was a lot better than the NBL. Sure we cannot see the games live in a stadium, but in the mid 90s they started broadcasting NBA into Australia a lot more regularly which quickly ended interest in any 2nds leagues.

Unless you can offer something that people cannot get and it has value then people won't be interested. The NBL is to the NBA like WAFL is to the AFL. The NBL got big piggybacking on the Jordans success in the NBA, it had a niche which quickly disappeared thanks to improved telecasting of NBA games into Australia. And the same will be true with soccer once the current hype disappears. Rugby is also suffering this same fate in Australia, though it's happening slower.

People like watching the best people in the world do their thing, AFL is the the best league in the world to watch aussie rules.

 

[Moo]

A lot of good points there Moo. But I think there were 30 thousand and change at our game against the Crows earlier in the season and we would have still made a 6 figure profit on the game. Where as North with the same crowd would make a few thousand at best with the same crowd.

That's why there was such a delay on the WAFC committing to a new stadium, because they know they have a sweet deal at Subi.

Different market conditions.

North Melb also get padded numbers from opposition fans for a good half a dozen games a season.

North Melb also charge less for membership/entry and therefore should get more to games

North Melb can also offer their fans a more comfortable viewing platform.

If a club can not compete in its market place - it needs to bring something special to the table (eg Sydney, Gold Coast or Brisbane) or it needs to change its market conditions (eg move or merge) or it gets out to a competition where it can compete.

If a Melb club folds within a generation (or less) the wound is healed.

Personally I'd rather see a team taking football to Tassie every 2nd week and develop the game their (& look after an AFL state) than to pay to keep a team in Melb.

 

[Moo]

It was also because people realized the NBA was a lot better than the NBL. Sure we cannot see the games live in a stadium, but in the mid 90s they started broadcasting NBA into Australia a lot more regularly which quickly ended interest in any 2nds leagues.

Unless you can offer something that people cannot get and it has value then people won't be interested. The NBL is to the NBA like WAFL is to the AFL. The NBL got big piggybacking on the Jordans success in the NBA, it had a niche which quickly disappeared thanks to improved telecasting of NBA games into Australia. And the same will be true with soccer once the current hype disappears. Rugby is also suffering this same fate in Australia, though it's happening slower.

People like watching the best people in the world do their thing, AFL is the the best league in the world to watch aussie rules.

Losing FTA NBL coverage killed the sport.

Hence why it is important to have a GC team and a Tassie team ...the AFL should be concerned about where the game is in 20 years ....we have extra cash now and the going is good - establish the teams in the next decade and then consolidate.

 

[Memories]

Losing FTA NBL coverage killed the sport.

You act like this is unrelated to what I said... why wouldn't TV stations play something which rated well?

Hence why it is important to have a GC team and a Tassie team ...the AFL should be concerned about where the game is in 20 years ....we have extra cash now and the going is good - establish the teams in the next decade and then consolidate.

I believe the AFL is going to be introducing GC17 with a folding Melbourne (likely North or Melb) in 2011, followed by another in 2012. It will be interesting to see if the TV contract stipulates a MUST for 9 games in 2012 because if it's "open" in this regard the AFL is publicly stating a few melbourne teams are going to be culled.

I expect the next agreement to say a minimum of 8 games/week and anything over is a luxury. The AFL's desire to get rid of a Melbourne team just doesn't disappear in 12 months in a worsening economic climate... it strengthens.

For Tassie to happen another Melbourne team needs to die, it's hard to say who else will die... Bulldogs seem to be going strong but they are still on a lifeline I think.

 

[dominguez]

Ofcourse the TV stations will pay more for 9 games than 8. They're getting 12.5% more product and increasing their appeal in NSW and QLD.

Demetriou was reportedly furious with Wayne Jackson's comments regarding the Demons/Kangaroos merger.

 

[anchor man]

I know there are the clubs who make the news about not being financial but didn't Carlton put their hand out for money from the AFL earlier this season?

I think,when the Golden Greek has done all the damage he can,ad gets pushed aside,w will see the demise of a few Melbourne based clubs.
I think it inevitable that it will happen.How long will the new Melbourne members stay true!!!
I know they have a lot of supporters but they seem to go missing when they are not travelling well.Stynes will have to work his arse off to keep them on board.Will he be succesful?Only time will tell.