Diesel v Judd

[Blue Warrior]

Anyway who cares we have had the pleasure of having had these 2 greats at our Mighty club and it's been a pleasure to watch both of them do their trade.

 

[Weiterbot23]

Koutas best was better than anyone, imo.

His best 5 games would be in the best 20 individual games of all time.


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[le dominateur]

I'm on the Diesel train as well, his vision & skills were sublime and he was as tough as they come.

 

[Blue Warrior]

Koutas best was better than anyone, imo.

His best 5 games would be in the best 20 individual games of all time.


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My favourite player oh the memories. But this thread is Williams vs Judd.

 

[gbatman]

Seen both of them win games off their own brilliance. Both have been the best player in the game in many of their seasons. Diesel was a great centerman but he could go forward as he did in the 1995 grand final and kick goals, Judd has kicked goals up forward as well but isn't overly known for it. Perhaps Judd is more damaging with his possession in the midfield with his ability to run and nail targets if you're thinking meters gained, diesel was also a brilliant user of the ball.

Judd carried Carlton and we saw last year when he was missing, just how much he has carried us. We saw it in 2012 and 2013 when he was underdone just how much he carried us with our results. Perhaps it's a lack of quality around Judd but Carlton at times played around Diesel. He took the attention and still gave off 20 odd handballs a game to players who queued up and hunted him for a receival knowing he'd get it and give it with class. Diesel made the players around him better where as Judd made the team better both in significant ways.

The eras were different, onballers stood further back/apart (changed by inner ruck circle and tactics) and there were less around the ball. The closest thing to Judd in Diesel's era was Robert Harvey while the closest thing to Diesel now is Mitchell. All stars regardless of the era. Statistics don't separate them.

Judd with his pace is perhaps slightly more damaging with his meters gained which would have to be higher and how he can carry a poor team to be respectable but the way Diesel made the players around him better was something special.

Tie. Can't decide.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

False dichotomy.

Aaron Joseph.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Judd. Hands down.

He should be top 10.

AFL era? He should be top 3

 

[Bosun]

How does one judge one masterpiece against another?

I cannot separate one from the other.

Exactly, it's a pointless yet fun argument.......did I mention Bruce Doull?

 

[Bosun]

Koutas best was better than anyone, imo.

His best 5 games would be in the best 20 individual games of all time.


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**** yeah, the bloke was on another planet, freak of a footballer. Could literally play any position on the ground with aplomb.

 

[FootyGeek]

**** yeah, the bloke was on another planet, freak of a footballer. Could literally play any position on the ground with aplomb.

For about 15 games.

Rest of the time, not so much.

 

[Bosun]

For about 15 games.

Rest of the time, not so much.

Watch the 95 season and 96 and 99 and 2000 and 2001. He set the mark so high in 2000 that all his other deeds were forgotten. He is still no Bruce Doull....did I mention that?

 

[FootyGeek]

Watch the 95 season and 96 and 99 and 2000 and 2001. He set the mark so high in 2000 that all his other deeds were forgotten. He is still no Bruce Doull....did I mention that?

I watched all those years.

In 2000 he set a benchmark no footballer had ever achieved.

He was consistantly spectacular, everywhere.

Other years he showed glimpses, after the 2001 injury he was gone and working on guts alone.

Great player, but fans remember the burst rather than the whole career. It was basically slow start, massive, very short lived middle, then slow end.

As an investment, with what the club put into him, we probably only got 30 cents in the dollar back.

Not all his fault, mainly injury and an overly generous football department.

 

[Dominator68]

Both all time greats and surely in Mike Sheahans forthcoming top 50 of the AFL era. I loved Diesels vision, sure hands and ability to hit targets. Some players "hit targets" with low risk, low reward disposal. Diesel used to cut teams apart with freakish vision and laser like precise disposal by hand or foot on both sides. He had built in radar and knew where his teammates were without actually looking. I saw him collect a ball on the 50 metre arc, facing away from our attacking end, and shoot a 30 meter rocket handball over his back to a running Ange christou in the wing. Ange didn't have to break stride. At now stage did he ever look anywhere near where And was making his run.

Judd a machine. Carried a crap side on his back for years. Amazing core strength, explosive pace and endurance.

Kouta's streak in 1999 - 2000 the best I ever saw. That knee injury against the filth cost us the 2000 flag. I also read somewhere that Leigh Matthews said it was the best he has ever seen. Pagan said a bazooka couldn't stop Kouta in 1999

 

[mike ockerts]

Having been old enough to see both, it has to be Diesel for me, just a master with ball in hand, surgical if you will, tough as nails as well, never forget a game at the "G" where he was running onto a ball in the F50 but was being hotly pursued by three opponents, when he got to the ball he was bumped by one but still managed to retain possession while on his knees, he had a split second to decide what he was going to do with it before being collared, what he did still amazes me till this day, with a left hand handball, he hand balled it between an opponents legs bounce pass style to a Carlton player running past at full tilt who didn't even have to break stride, I can't remember who the player was now, but he just ran into an open goal for a easy sausage roll. judd is an out and out champion of our game no doubt, and as others have said earlier in the thread, just so happy they play/played for the club I love.

 

[Monkey King]

Diesel for me. Only Ablett Jnr rivals him as a midfielder in my time watching footy. The guy was a marvel. Judd is a super player and was a uniquely destructive force at WCE, but Diesel was his own kind of freak. Both could exert significant influence on a match, Judd more through individual brilliance and almost exerting his will on games, and Diesel through not only reading the play to win his own ball, but also reading it as it was yet to unfold, which with his skills, enabled him to create first options that few others could, which then unlocked further options down the field. It wasn't uncommon to see him pointing where players should run to, not just the guy he was going to deliver to, but also players further along in the link of play. He was a football genius. He was also pretty good on the outside, not as a break away runner, but suddenly popping up in a damaging position on the ground and demanding the ball.

Lance Romance I'd prefer to watch Judd's highlight reel, but I'd rather watch Diesel live at the ground.

 

[Atom Ant]

Both for me, can't split them really.

 

[LanceRomance]

Both for me, can't split them really.

Not much of an atom if you cant split things

 

[Atom Ant]

Not much of an atom if you cant split things

Splitting things kills them.

 

[thylacine60]

Not much of an atom if you cant split things

Stop it....

 

[Atom Ant]

I'm just a humble ant.

 

[SurreyBlue]

I go back a little and still remember watching Diesal running around in the 2nds at Princes Park. Big mistake by Parkin. Then I had the pleasure of watching Judd at WC before Worsfold tried to destroy him and that was something to behold as well. If I had to choose 1 in their prime for now, I couldn't split either. I would want both because they would complement each other in the middle and we would be unstoppable. I'm selfish like that!!!

 

[Bongo Drum]

Diesel by a fair margin.

Was an absolute freak the way he could pinpoint a pass with laser precision. Both with kicks and handball. With both hands and both feet. The ultimate ambidextrous player!

Just had phenomenal vision. His hand-eye coordination and quickness of mind was unbelievable when you consider he lacked the pace to create time and space for himself, and yet he always found a way to hit a target despite being tagged heavily.

And I don't think I ever saw him fumble the ball... not once! There will never be another Diesel.

 

[Moe B]

Judd easy... Footy tactically wasn't as difficult back in the diesel days, Judd when he was 21 was the best player that I've seen, No-one had the ability to break the lines like he did and finish from tight pockets and long 50-60 metre bomb goals!! They're both freaks but Judd takes the cake especially because Judd is now playing with a team that is nowhere near as good as the team diesel had when he was playing, Btw as much as I love kouta, not in the same category as the Juddman!!

 

[Garth Vader]

I believe Greg William playing today would be a lot fitter and playing like Sam Mitchell, only better.

Kicking of either foot with surgical precision from stoppages would be priceless, not to mention his handball to the RIGHT OPTION EVERY TIME.

Judds weaknesses are Diesels strengths and vice versa.

Can't choose really.

If only we had both at once.

My recollection is that diesel was the elite-of-the-elite as far as kicking goes - not just with his surgical precision but with his incredible vision and ability to assess a situation. He had the ability to kick far and flat, on the chest of someone running flat-out with 10 opponents chasing only 5cm behind. Ridiculous. I can't think of anyone who would have surpassed him at the time, with kicking skills.

IMO Juddy's kicking skills are only good-ish relative to rest of the comp.

Extraction capability - hard to call due to different ways mids are played now and the type of defensive pressure that modern players face. IMO would be easier to shut down Diesel than Judd given the latter's sheer size and acceleration/speed. Then again, Diesel's short/stocky build and low centre of gravity was handy in allowing him to get first hands on the ball - which he would typically fire out to advantage with incredible speed. Would have to give handballing skills to Diesel - he was again the elite-of-elite in the comp at the time.

Judds acceleration/speed has been, for most of his career, elite-of-elite. Still not very far off elite. Diametrically better than Diesel.

For mine, this is an incredibly difficult call to make. It's too easy to be (subconsciously) swayed by Juddy's physical size and explosiveness and his recent highlight-reel grabbing feats.

I honestly can't make a confident call on this one, but am leaning towards Diesel. If it comes down to merely who I enjoyed watching the most, slightly leaning towards Judd.

 

[Jabba73]

Used to watch the Eagles, just to see Judd play and was over the moon when he joined us, hated Diesel with a passion and was not happy when he joined us.

Still love Juddy, happy I got to cheer for Diesel and appreciate his talents without the hate.

For me, Diesel wins hand down. Elite in every facet of the game except athletically.

Judd has been perfect for where we were and super professional, happy to have had both at the club.