Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell *Homicide gets an AVO *Foster parents face charges of assaults, stalking, intimidation & lying

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Kurve

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Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:
  • Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
  • Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on both
  • 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother
  • 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
  • Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)
Operation Arkstone
 

NRL Fan

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I found the article relating to the tea, I remember someone was looking for it

Interesting read.

"
The foster father, who works in sales, could be seen limbering up in court rooms in his pink business shirt and skinny jeans, twisting his square toe shoes and breathing deeply.

He told the court he had met the foster mother about 2006 and as a motorcyclist he had ridden his trail bike around the Kendall State Forest “extensively”.

He explained away his frantic behaviour after arriving home and tearing off to run like a madman up hill and down dale without finding where his wife had already searched for William.

“There is method in my madness,” he said, “I thought it was probably better for me to branch out … outside the house.”



I found the FF's actions and answers unusual. Breathing deeply and twisting his feet are signs of being nervous about the questions that he might be asked, making it appear he had something to hide. His immediate action of branching out without checking where SDR had already searched is not an expected logical response and the use of the words "There is method in my madness" is an admission that he considered his own actions as mad, and this 6 word sentence provides no logical reason for branching out. It's almost as though he was putting on a show to appear to be overcome by emotion by tearing off in a frantic panic and then realised later that's not a normal response and needed justification.

It's also interesting that he knew the area extensively from his trail bike riding, so if he was involved in hiding a body, he would know where to go. I know he has an alibi from his zoom call and receipt at the chemist, but there is a ~30 minute period between the zoom call ending and his Chemist receipt which is unaccounted time. Not sure if this has been looked at in any depth ?
 

31550

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Interesting read.

"
The foster father, who works in sales, could be seen limbering up in court rooms in his pink business shirt and skinny jeans, twisting his square toe shoes and breathing deeply.

He told the court he had met the foster mother about 2006 and as a motorcyclist he had ridden his trail bike around the Kendall State Forest “extensively”.

He explained away his frantic behaviour after arriving home and tearing off to run like a madman up hill and down dale without finding where his wife had already searched for William.

“There is method in my madness,” he said, “I thought it was probably better for me to branch out … outside the house.”



I found the FF's actions and answers unusual. Breathing deeply and twisting his feet are signs of being nervous about the questions that he might be asked, making it appear he had something to hide. His immediate action of branching out without checking where SDR had already searched is not an expected logical response and the use of the words "There is method in my madness" is an admission that he considered his own actions as mad, and this 6 word sentence provides no logical reason for branching out. It's almost as though he was putting on a show to appear to be overcome by emotion by tearing off in a frantic panic and then realised later that's not a normal response and needed justification.

It's also interesting that he knew the area extensively from his trail bike riding, so if he was involved in hiding a body, he would know where to go. I know he has an alibi from his zoom call and receipt at the chemist, but there is a ~30 minute period between the zoom call ending and his Chemist receipt which is unaccounted time. Not sure if this has been looked at in any depth ?
By '30 minute time period' I assume you are talking from 9:45 to 10:15?
At 9:45 he returned a missed phone call which went to voicemail during his online meeting. This was in Lakewood.
At 10:19 he made a transaction in Lakewood Pharmacy.
This would have given him 10 minutes to drive back to Benaroon drive / Batar Ck Rd and collect William, 10 minutes to dispose of him, and 10 minutes to return to Lakewood Pharmacy.
I don't think 10 minutes is enough time to dispose of a child, never to be seen again.
There is no evidence these trips were made.
Eye witnesses saw FF and his car at Lakewood shops at the time he says he was there.
Nobody saw FF or his car anywhere else during this period. No CCTV. No phone pings. No GPS tracking from FF car.

I would suggest, given the way FF waffles when he speaks, and his generally erratic behaviour that the phone call took a few minutes, he then had to also collect FGM newspaper, probably had to wait several minutes at the pharmacy for his prescription, - may have walked around a bit before driving back - he wasn't in any hurry as he had no idea William was missing and was possibly enjoying some time to himself. He wasn't expected back until 10:30. If it was me, I'd have probably grabbed a coffee or a snack given he left the house before 9:00 and had only had toast and coffee.
 

stormbird

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Just watched the FGM's walk through again. She never mentions the cups of tea.

From her account, they all went straight out onto the back deck after doing the breakfast dishes and 'this is where we stayed' - so no bike riding either.

From Chumley's book:

“She (FGM) stated she wasn’t aware that Anna had taken the kids down to the front yard, twice. She didn’t know about Anna’s hand injury, she swore. She definitely didn’t have morning tea before 10.30, and she said Anna took the pictures of William just minutes before he vanished, not half an hour. And at the inquest, lawyers never had the opportunity to straighten out all these flies in the ointment, because Nancy Wyndham – despite being of sound mind – was never put on the stand. We have never been told why.”

Excerpt From
Searching for Spiderman
Ally Chumley
FGM doesn't mention the tea or the bike riding in the 3:17 minutes of the walk-through that were published. But it's possible she might have mentioned them in the parts that were not published.

Re the walk-through video in Daily Mail Australia, 7 May 2022:

The way I hear it, FGM "finished the dishes" (not specifically breakfast dishes - there might have been a whole week's worth: she hadn't been expecting the fosters until Friday night), then (probably straight away, but maybe not) "we were out here on the patio" - which leaves open the possibility that the others were already on the patio when FGM was washing up or that they joined her there after being somewhere else first e.g. playing Mummy Monster on the lower lawn.
 

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stormbird

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Interesting read.

"
The foster father, who works in sales, could be seen limbering up in court rooms in his pink business shirt and skinny jeans, twisting his square toe shoes and breathing deeply.

He told the court he had met the foster mother about 2006 and as a motorcyclist he had ridden his trail bike around the Kendall State Forest “extensively”.

He explained away his frantic behaviour after arriving home and tearing off to run like a madman up hill and down dale without finding where his wife had already searched for William.

“There is method in my madness,” he said, “I thought it was probably better for me to branch out … outside the house.”



I found the FF's actions and answers unusual. Breathing deeply and twisting his feet are signs of being nervous about the questions that he might be asked, making it appear he had something to hide. His immediate action of branching out without checking where SDR had already searched is not an expected logical response and the use of the words "There is method in my madness" is an admission that he considered his own actions as mad, and this 6 word sentence provides no logical reason for branching out. It's almost as though he was putting on a show to appear to be overcome by emotion by tearing off in a frantic panic and then realised later that's not a normal response and needed justification.

It's also interesting that he knew the area extensively from his trail bike riding, so if he was involved in hiding a body, he would know where to go. I know he has an alibi from his zoom call and receipt at the chemist, but there is a ~30 minute period between the zoom call ending and his Chemist receipt which is unaccounted time. Not sure if this has been looked at in any depth ?
As far as I know, that 30 minutes between the start of the phone call and the end of chemist visit hasn't been explained to the public.

FF's call to a recruiter started at 9:45 am, but when did it end? Who knows. From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p.70:

"His meeting with a client in Queensland accounted for thirty-nine minutes. Nathan missed a call from a recruiter during the meeting. He retrieved her voicemail message and at 9.45, returned her call. Then he went to the pharmacy."

Then, from Canberra Times, 25 March 2019, while FF was in Lakewood: "He had a prescription filled at a chemist there at 10.19am."

Presumably 10:19 is the time he paid for the medication, probably just before leaving the chemist, so it doesn't tell us how long he was in the shop. I can imagine the chemist visit alone might have taken up the full 30 minutes if there were other customers before him at the counter, or tasks needing the attention of the pharmacist or staff; and it might have taken some time to make up the medication if it wasn't pre-packaged, or to establish his authority to pick it up if it was for someone else. MOO
 

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As far as I know, that 30 minutes between the start of the phone call and the end of chemist visit hasn't been explained to the public.

FF's call to a recruiter started at 9:45 am, but when did it end? Who knows. From Searching for Spiderman, 2020, p.70:

"His meeting with a client in Queensland accounted for thirty-nine minutes. Nathan missed a call from a recruiter during the meeting. He retrieved her voicemail message and at 9.45, returned her call. Then he went to the pharmacy."

Then, from Canberra Times, 25 March 2019, while FF was in Lakewood: "He had a prescription filled at a chemist there at 10.19am."

Presumably 10:19 is the time he paid for the medication, probably just before leaving the chemist, so it doesn't tell us how long he was in the shop. I can imagine the chemist visit alone might have taken up the full 30 minutes if there were other customers before him at the counter, or tasks needing the attention of the pharmacist or staff; and it might have taken some time to make up the medication if it wasn't pre-packaged, or to establish his authority to pick it up if it was for someone else. MOO
I've been to that Chemist quite a few times and had prescriptions filled out, all within 5 minutes max and I can't recall ever seeing a queue at the counter of more than one or two people. Friday morning at 10:00am is not exactly rush hour at Lakewood outside of school holidays :). If FF was involved in the disposal of the body, even if he didn't return back to FGM's house, WT might have been killed earlier and placed in the trunk of the vehicle and disposed of in the bush near Lakewood during this gap in time. This would require the time of the pictures to be earlier and it would possible verify WT was looking up at his FF in the roar picture. The fact that the 30 minutes of time exists and hasn't been explained is problematic IMO. If FF was using the chemist visit as an alibi, he could have turned off his mobile and Navman for the trip to dispose of the body, returned back to the carpark and no one would be the wiser.
 
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31550

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I've been to that Chemist quite a few times and had prescriptions filled out, all within 5 minutes max and I can't recall ever seeing a queue at the counter of more than one or two people. Friday morning at 10:00am is not exactly rush hour at Lakewood outside of school holidays :). If FF was involved in the disposal of the body, even if he didn't return back to FGM's house, WT might have been killed earlier and placed in the trunk of the vehicle and disposed of in the bush near Lakewood during this gap in time. This would require the time of the pictures to be earlier and it would possible verify WT was looking up at his FF in the roar picture. The fact that the 30 minutes of time exists and hasn't been explained is problematic IMO. If FF was using the chemist visit as an alibi, he could have turned off his mobile and Navman for the trip to dispose of the body, returned back to the carpark and no one would be the wiser.
How can William have been in FF car? Photo taken at 9:37. FF GotoMeeting was still in progress at Lakewood at this time. FF would have to return to the house to get William, and we have established he did not have time to do this.
 

stormbird

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I've been to that Chemist quite a few times and had prescriptions filled out, all within 5 minutes max and I can't recall ever seeing a queue at the counter of more than one or two people. Friday morning at 10:00am is not exactly rush hour at Lakewood outside of school holidays :). If FF was involved in the disposal of the body, even if he didn't return back to FGM's house, WT might have been killed earlier and placed in the trunk of the vehicle and disposed of in the bush near Lakewood during this gap in time. This would require the time of the pictures to be earlier and it would possible verify WT was looking up at his FF in the roar picture. The fact that the 30 minutes of time exists and hasn't been explained is problematic IMO. If FF was using the chemist visit as an alibi, he could have turned off his mobile and Navman for the trip to dispose of the body, returned back to the carpark and no one would be the wiser.
I don't know how phones and vehicles are tracked (and FF had a laptop with him too, see below*) but unless they were all turned off for an extended period I think a small gap in the records, all at the same time, would look questionable. And based on maps, it looks like the only ways in or out of the Lakewood shopping centre go quite close to the service station - NRL Fan, is that correct? Because if the service station CCTV cameras show enough background, it might have been possible for police to see images and times of all vehicles entering or leaving the carpark, in which case they should have known if FF had nipped out between the 9:45 call and the 10:19 chemist.

*From "The usual suspects", Nowhere Child podcast on Listen Notes, 30 Aug 2019
where an actor re-creates FF's statements in a police interview from 1 Sep 2016. (Transcript is by me and I'm only guessing that FF says "Morton" because I can't work out what else it might be. Was Lakewood given a pseudonym?)

(from about 37:52 minutes)
FF: "I went to the little shopping centre at Morton, stopped on the left-hand side of the road coming from Kendall - a little supermarket, a chemist, a Woolies - I sat in the carpark with my laptop and logged on. Headset. I called a contact in Queensland, it was around nine a.m. I filled a script. Drove home. Bolted into action."
 
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NRL Fan

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How can William have been in FF car? Photo taken at 9:37. FF GotoMeeting was still in progress at Lakewood at this time. FF would have to return to the house to get William, and we have established he did not have time to do this.
I already answered that Q in my comment. This scenario would require the images of WT to have been taken earlier - eg: 7:35.
 

31550

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I don't know how phones and vehicles are tracked (and FF had a laptop with him too, see below*) but unless they were all turned off for an extended period I think a small gap in the records, all at the same time, would look questionable. And based on maps, it looks like the only ways in or out of the Lakewood shopping centre go quite close to the service station - NRL Fan, is that correct? Because if the service station CCTV cameras show enough background, it might have been possible for police to see images and times of all vehicles entering or leaving the carpark, in which case they should have known if FF had nipped out between the 9:45 call and the 10:19 chemist.

*From "The usual suspects", Nowhere Child podcast on Listen Notes, 30 Aug 2019
where an actor re-creates FF's statements in a police interview from 1 Sep 2016. (Transcript is by me and I'm only guessing that FF says "Morton" because I can't work out what else it might be. Was Lakewood given a pseudonym?)

(from about 37:52 minutes)
FF: "I went to the little shopping centre at Morton, stopped on the left-hand side of the road coming from Kendall - a little supermarket, a chemist, a Woolies - I sat in the carpark with my laptop and logged on. Headset. I called a contact in Queensland, it was around nine a.m. I filled a script. Drove home. Bolted into action."
I think "Morton" might mean Laurieton? Did he go to Laurieton or Lakewood?
 

stormbird

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I think "Morton" might mean Laurieton? Did he go to Laurieton or Lakewood?
Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.
 

fazacs1

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Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.
Nice pick up, there is a woollies at Lakewood and I remember listening and thought it was Morton too, but thought it must of been Laurieton, but like you cannot find a woollies at laurieton. But Lakewood has woollies and a chemist and butcher and a few other shops and a carpark, although you could pull up on the verge of the road it looks like.I must say I found it weird when he says “headset”
 

Awakening

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Kendall to Morton is 34 minutes
 

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NRL Fan

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Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.
There is no Woolies in Laurieton, only a Coles, but both have their own chemist. The word Morton is a mystery. There is no Morton town, road or place near Kendall. If the transcript is what was said by the FF, then he slipped up or had a senior's moment 20 years too early.
 

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NRL Fan

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I don't know how phones and vehicles are tracked (and FF had a laptop with him too, see below*) but unless they were all turned off for an extended period I think a small gap in the records, all at the same time, would look questionable. And based on maps, it looks like the only ways in or out of the Lakewood shopping centre go quite close to the service station - NRL Fan, is that correct? Because if the service station CCTV cameras show enough background, it might have been possible for police to see images and times of all vehicles entering or leaving the carpark, in which case they should have known if FF had nipped out between the 9:45 call and the 10:19 chemist.

*From "The usual suspects", Nowhere Child podcast on Listen Notes, 30 Aug 2019
where an actor re-creates FF's statements in a police interview from 1 Sep 2016. (Transcript is by me and I'm only guessing that FF says "Morton" because I can't work out what else it might be. Was Lakewood given a pseudonym?)

(from about 37:52 minutes)
FF: "I went to the little shopping centre at Morton, stopped on the left-hand side of the road coming from Kendall - a little supermarket, a chemist, a Woolies - I sat in the carpark with my laptop and logged on. Headset. I called a contact in Queensland, it was around nine a.m. I filled a script. Drove home. Bolted into action."
btw - Mobile phones had several levels of tracking available to Telsta (in 2014), who had a mobile positioning system deployed. The system has active and passive positioning, where active positioning gives more accurate real time positioning, however they only use active positioning for specific reasons, such as at police request and it's done in real time. For historical data they use metadata and passive positioning information which reports when you move from one cell to another and it's limited to a broader coverage area, such as 1km radius. Passive data and call metadata, from his data and voice sessions would have been used by police wrt the FF's mobile. However, he did have an Apple phone and some Apple specific data might have been available that used the mobile's GPS. Unfortunately, the mobile network can't use the phones GPS for tracking (Not back then and not even today).
 

Awakening

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There is no Woolies in Laurieton, only a Coles, but both have their own chemist. The word Morton is a mystery. There is no Morton town, road or place near Kendall. If the transcript is what was said by the FF, then he slipped up or had a senior's moment 20 years too early.

There's a Mortons Creek half an hour from Kendall
 

fazacs1

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I already answered that Q in my comment. This scenario would require the images of WT to have been taken earlier - eg: 7:35.
Does anyone know for certain, have any documents from the court or police, ever been released that state without a doubt, that those 5 images were taken 9.35-9.37
 

NRL Fan

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Does anyone know for certain, have any documents from the court or police, ever been released that state without a doubt, that those 5 images were taken 9.35-9.37
You can't be certain about the time of any picture taken as it relies on the time of the camera to be set correctly and the metadata can be altered (with specific software) anyway.
 

stormbird

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I went through some podcasts, trying to find FF saying "Lakewood" to see what he sounds like but couldn't find even one example. In one interview he said instead that he was "in town, near Laurieton". I turned on the YouTube "subtitles/closed captions" option to see how it would translate the "Laurieton"... and it didn't, it just left that word out. And it couldn't understand some of his other words:

What FF said v What the auto-transcription said
  • I drove in v I driving in
  • then my, um, my wife v then my walk my wife
  • is William with you v he's moving with you
  • I looked oddly at her v I looked fondly at her

from AUDIO_D&ST_5: William's Mum and Dad Speak - Part 1, YouTube, from about 4:37 mins

So now I wonder whether the "Morton" could be just a bad auto-transcription (if the podcast makers were given a video or excerpts of FF's 2016 police interview and had to transcribe it themselves). Maybe the writers didn't know the names of towns and didn't bother to check a map? MOO
 

stormbird

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Nice pick up, there is a woollies at Lakewood and I remember listening and thought it was Morton too, but thought it must of been Laurieton, but like you cannot find a woollies at laurieton. But Lakewood has woollies and a chemist and butcher and a few other shops and a carpark, although you could pull up on the verge of the road it looks like.I must say I found it weird when he says “headset”
Good point, "you could pull up on the verge of the road". There wouldn't be CCTV on the way in and out of the carpark if FF didn't even drive in there.
 
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Good point, "you could pull up on the verge of the road". There wouldn't be CCTV on the way in and out of the carpark if FF didn't even drive in there.
You would struggle to park on the verge at Lakewood to Laurieton road.
Could be done but unlikely.

PS don't google search and come back at me with measurements.
It's just not the place to roadside park.
 

fazacs1

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I went through some podcasts, trying to find FF saying "Lakewood" to see what he sounds like but couldn't find even one example. In one interview he said instead that he was "in town, near Laurieton". I turned on the YouTube "subtitles/closed captions" option to see how it would translate the "Laurieton"... and it didn't, it just left that word out. And it couldn't understand some of his other words:

What FF said v What the auto-transcription said
  • I drove in v I driving in
  • then my, um, my wife v then my walk my wife
  • is William with you v he's moving with you
  • I looked oddly at her v I looked fondly at her

from AUDIO_D&ST_5: William's Mum and Dad Speak - Part 1, YouTube, from about 4:37 mins

So now I wonder whether the "Morton" could be just a bad auto-transcription (if the podcast makers were given a video or excerpts of FF's 2016 police interview and had to transcribe it themselves). Maybe the writers didn't know the names of towns and didn't bother to check a map? MOO
FF does say, “I had just finished doing what I was doing in town, near Laurieton”, but IMO , why would he not just say at Lakewood, why even say near Laurieton , if you were in Lakewood?
 

31550

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Do you mean that it sounds like "Laurieton"? If so, fair enough, maybe that's what he meant. But I think he definitely says there was a "Woolies" there (short for Woolworths supermarket), and according to Google Maps there isn't one of those in Laurieton.
What I meant was that in the podcast, which is a re-enactment of the interview, not the actual recording, the actor playing FF seems to say 'Morton', possibly meaning 'Laurieton'. So, it's possible FF said 'Laurieton' in the interview by mistake. Also possible it was misheard or mistranscribed. Also possible he never said either Laurieton or Morton, but this was inserted (possibly in error) by the podcast producers / editors and not picked up.

Note that in Overington's book, which is well-researched, she reports that FF went to Lakewood pharmacy, not Laurieton. This is reported twice in the book: Once where she recounts the initial story of William's disappearance, and again, where FF gives evidence to the coroner. On both occasions, Lakewood pharmacy is specifically mentioned, not Laurieton.

My take-away is that 'Morton' in the podcast is another red herring or mistake. Not very good form, as Overington had a hand in this podcast, and she does not call out the obvious discrepancy.
 

NRL Fan

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What I meant was that in the podcast, which is a re-enactment of the interview, not the actual recording, the actor playing FF seems to say 'Morton', possibly meaning 'Laurieton'. So, it's possible FF said 'Laurieton' in the interview by mistake. Also possible it was misheard or mistranscribed. Also possible he never said either Laurieton or Morton, but this was inserted (possibly in error) by the podcast producers / editors and not picked up.

Note that in Overington's book, which is well-researched, she reports that FF went to Lakewood pharmacy, not Laurieton. This is reported twice in the book: Once where she recounts the initial story of William's disappearance, and again, where FF gives evidence to the coroner. On both occasions, Lakewood pharmacy is specifically mentioned, not Laurieton.

My take-away is that 'Morton' in the podcast is another red herring or mistake. Not very good form, as Overington had a hand in this podcast, and she does not call out the obvious discrepancy.
We know he went to Lakewood because of the cctv and receipt at the chemist. If Morton is a slip up to another destination he travelled, it's not an obvious one and as you suggest, it could be a mis-translation.
 

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