Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[Kurve]

I just can't find any evidence that the child died on the FGM's property.

There is no hard evidence he died there that I can see either but the Coroner can make those indications on the likelihood finding there's even less evidence he was abducted or wandered off.

 

[Lady O]

From what I have read the sister didn't see anything strange that morning, he was playing, then ran out of sight and was never seen or heard of again.

It will be interesting to hear from her, whether she has seen or heard something either on that day or since then that could shed some light on what happened to WT. The outcome of the child abuse charges might give some insight, if proven.

 

[Awakening]

Because I live a sad boring life, I was wondering what criminal activity could the fosters be involved in - all theory obviously- and I came up with money laundering.

But then I could have watched too much of the Ozarks

 

[31550]

You summarise the prosecution case by virtue of the long list of suspicious activities and you can add the investigation by the NSWCC, which implies links to organised crime, along with the recent real estate "dummy bidder" sting. I agree this might be all one big coincidence but the reverse also applies and the theory cannot be discounted until proven otherwise. The police also used the phrase "leave no stone unturned" in the investigation on more than a few occasions in the past year, which seems to be a hint of sorts.

It's a very long bow. Dummy bidding is hardly 'organised crime', and not something I would imagine the NSWCC spend much time on.

It's certainly an interesting choice of phrase (leaving no stone unturned), used more than once by police, and quoted in the media.
It might be just a coincidence. Or maybe the police are doing it 'accidentally on purpose'? I don't think Jubelin used those words. Do you know who first used this phrase, and when?

 

[BFew]

It's certainly an interesting choice of phrase (leaving no stone unturned), used more than once by police, and quoted in the media.
It might be just a coincidence. Or maybe the police are doing it 'accidentally on purpose'? I don't think Jubelin used those words. Do you know who first used this phrase, and when?

A young boy still missing, yes. Leave no stone unturned in trying to find him.

A poster called Max Force on 27 April, 2015, in this thread?

Last seen on this forum on 3 Aug, 2015.

 

[31550]

A poster called Max Force on 27 April, 2015, in this thread?

Last seen on this forum on 3 Aug, 2015.

Could be a coincidence or it could be old mate Max being a bit cheeky. When did a police spokesperson use this term for the first time?

 

[NRL Fan]

It's a very long bow. Dummy bidding is hardly 'organised crime', and not something I would imagine the NSWCC spend much time on.

It's certainly an interesting choice of phrase (leaving no stone unturned), used more than once by police, and quoted in the media.
It might be just a coincidence. Or maybe the police are doing it 'accidentally on purpose'? I don't think Jubelin used those words. Do you know who first used this phrase, and when?

When you already understand the context, there is absolutely no way the police would use those words by accident in a public press release, because they would know that the FPs would make the connection to themselves. It was used in June 2021 for WT's 10th BD, again in November 2021 and more recently last month. IMO - Those words were direct comms by Police to the FPs to make it clear they were the targets and to apply pressure and it was after those words were used that we saw the charges being laid for a host of unrelated offenses. The fact that the words were used again recently is an indication they are still the targets.

‘No stone left unturned’: Detectives urge people to come forward on William Tyrrell’s 10th birthday

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/police-to-give-update-as-search-for-william-tyrrell-continues-in-kendall/news-story/2e726b33f5938d23b65cded7e173f439

 

[JWS2019]

Re the report yesterday, here is the decision by Commissioner Sloan, dated 21 Sep 2022:

Lambert v Commissioner of Police [2022] NSWIRComm 1078, Industrial Relations Commission NSW

It says "Publication restriction: Yes" and I don't know what that means.

I’m kicking myself for having this opinion as I am against corruption in the police force.. but I really don’t see what occurred with either high up passionate police force members...as being corrupt. I’d be quite happy to be recorded anytime of the day - although yes abide by the law etc. unless there is something we do not all know ???? I wish that so much resources and money was not used on prosecuting officers, over researching the investigation... IMO.,,

 

[NRL Fan]

I’m kicking myself for having this opinion as I am against corruption in the police force.. but I really don’t see what occurred with either high up passionate police force members...as being corrupt. I’d be quite happy to be recorded anytime of the day - although yes abide by the law etc. unless there is something we do not all know ???? I wish that so much resources and money was not used on prosecuting officers, over researching the investigation... IMO.,,

The cops probably do this on a regular basis, knowing it can't be used in court, but as a means to determine the veracity of a lead. They would have a pre-defined list of questions and analyse the recorded answers later using lie detecting techniques as well as study the content and wording of answers. IMO-They wanted to shift Jubelin off the case and out of the force for a reason, and used this illegal recording as a means to an end. Lambert is probably collateral damage. Perhaps we should look at why they wanted Jubelin off the force as well as off the case ?.

 

[31550]

The cops probably do this on a regular basis, knowing it can't be used in court, but as a means to determine the veracity of a lead. They would have a pre-defined list of questions and analyse the recorded answers later using lie detecting techniques as well as study the content and wording of answers. IMO-They wanted to shift Jubelin off the case and out of the force for a reason, and used this illegal recording as a means to an end. Lambert is probably collateral damage. Perhaps we should look at why they wanted Jubelin off the force as well as off the case ?.

One possible explanation (not sure I agree with) is that NSW police command wanted the WT case closed and moved to unsolved/cold case. Costing too much time and money with no results. "No one cares about that little kid". They had already been burnt by the unfruitful pursuit of Spedding and were facing further possible litigation from Savage. They possibly underestimated the backlash from Jubelin & the fosters who both seemed to gain media sympathy, with the assistance of "Wheres William".

 

[NRL Fan]

One possible explanation (not sure I agree with) is that NSW police command wanted the WT case closed and moved to unsolved/cold case. Costing too much time and money with no results. "No one cares about that little kid". They had already been burnt by the unfruitful pursuit of Spedding and were facing further possible litigation from Savage. They possibly underestimated the backlash from Jubelin & the fosters who both seemed to gain media sympathy, with the assistance of "Wheres William".

The "no stone unturned" focus on the FPs kind of runs against that idea. Although, in the earlier days of this case, I was wondering if the police were deliberately trying not the solve the case and were using Spedding as a distraction. You then start to think of police connections to the crime itself and a cover up.

 

[31550]

The "no stone unturned" focus on the FPs kind of runs against that idea. Although, in the earlier days of this case, I was wondering if the police were deliberately trying not the solve the case and were using Spedding as a distraction. You then start to think of police connections to the crime itself and a cover up.

Again, a possible explanation (not necessarily one I agree with) is that the "no stone unturned" focus was a backlash to the fosters criticism of NSW police, and staunch defence of Jubelin. It was like, "If you don't stop complaining about us and let us close the case, we are gonna come after YOU - see how you like that!"

 

[Tues]

Why was William sharing the FF,s bedroom and the little girl in with the FM? Why not put the kids together? and those rooms are so tiny! House where William Tyrrell spent final hours before going missing

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Why was William sharing the FF,s bedroom and the little girl in with the FM? Why not put the kids together? and those rooms are so tiny! House where William Tyrrell spent final hours before going missing

William had sleep issues iirc and kept his sister awake so they needed to separate them due to fighting.

 

[31550]

Anyone know which particular charge is up for mention for FM and FF on 20 October at Hornsby court? Is it just the 'dummy bidder'?

 

[Kurve]

Anyone know which particular charge is up for mention for FM and FF on 20 October at Hornsby court? Is it just the 'dummy bidder'?

It's just a mention anyway. This is going soo slow ...

 

[fazacs1]

Something I found interesting in FM statement no 29, FM states that William and FGM spoke on the telephone and on FaceTime on the computer? So the internet wasn’t so bad!

 

[31550]

Something I found interesting in FM statement no 29, FM states that William and FGM spoke on the telephone and on FaceTime on the computer? So the internet wasn’t so bad!

She says William spoke to FGM on the telephone regularly which probably means landline.
She also says "through Facetime over the computer", but this does not necessarily mean FGM was in her home when they did so. FGM may not have even owned a computer - maybe she went to another family member's house or the community centre to Facetime on someone elses computer? Maybe there was good enough 3G/4G signal at or near FGMs house to Facetime, but not a good enough internet connection to do a videoconference reliably? In 2014 she may have had an ADSL connection, or even no Internet at all, so FF would have had to tether his computer to his own phone, which might have been unreliable or awkward.
We also know that FM uses FGMs landline to ring Spedding, rather than her own mobile phone. She used the landline to dial 000, not her mobile. She didn't call or text FF when William went missing, and she apparently didn't see or didn't receive the "home in 5" text immediately. This all seems to support the line that mobile phone reception (and probably internet) was 'flaky' at FGMs house at the time. Of course this is all conjecture, not proof.
As an anecdote - around 2014 I used to regularly visit a caravan park where we had an onsite van - sometimes the internet and phone would work, sometimes the signal would be flaky. It was pretty common in 2014.

 

[BFew]

She also says "through Facetime over the computer",

Sometimes people say "Facetime" when actually using Skype or some other common or not so commonly used video-conferencing software.
And are not actually using Apple's Facetime (which is only available using Apple internet enabled devices).

 

[31550]

Sometimes people say "Facetime" when actually using Skype or some other common or not so commonly used video-conferencing software.
And are not actually using Apple's Facetime (which is only available using Apple internet enabled devices).

Statement in question was made six months after the actual event. Plenty of time to forget the facts or invent a story. FM would have us believe William had a close relationship with FGM. There's not a lot of evidence one way or another on this. I find it hard to believe - they had very little interaction, only a few visits. FGM did not speak fondly or affectionately or emotionally about William. There was nothing for William to do at FGMs place out of the ordinary - he didn't want to climb trees. He only rode his bike in the driveway. He had to share a bed with FF. He had to watch Fireman Sam on FFs phone - so no videos or DVDs. He had to invent a Daddy Tiger/Mummy monster game, and it seems he played this virtually on his own. The planned activity was to make cards to put on FGF's grave - doesn't sound like a fun trip for a 3YO. The highlight was McDonalds on the way up!

 

[BFew]

doesn't sound like a fun trip for a 3YO.

If only William had the foresight to know that the trip would end up being one of Australia's greatest whodunnitt mysteries, he might have put on a pink panther suit for the occasion, rather than a Spiderman one.

 

[stormbird]

"William Tyrrell's birth mother [who is pregnant] has been charged with stalking a woman and sharing intimate photos of her, two weeks after pleading guilty to seriously assaulting her boyfriend.
She is on bail and due in Hornsby Local Court in Sydney next month on charges of assault, stalking, using a carriage service to menace or harass and sharing an intimate image without consent.
...
[Fifteen days ago she pleaded guilty to assaulting her partner: AAP on Yahoo! 04 Oct 2022*] Sentenced to a community corrections order which requires her to be of good behaviour for 12 months, she was warned she could be resentenced if charged with another offence in the next year."

- Daily Mail Australia, 19 Oct 2022

*Edit 05 Jan 2023: sorry, the Yahoo! link doesn't work now.

 

[fazacs1]

She says William spoke to FGM on the telephone regularly which probably means landline.
She also says "through Facetime over the computer", but this does not necessarily mean FGM was in her home when they did so. FGM may not have even owned a computer - maybe she went to another family member's house or the community centre to Facetime on someone elses computer? Maybe there was good enough 3G/4G signal at or near FGMs house to Facetime, but not a good enough internet connection to do a videoconference reliably? In 2014 she may have had an ADSL connection, or even no Internet at all, so FF would have had to tether his computer to his own phone, which might have been unreliable or awkward.
We also know that FM uses FGMs landline to ring Spedding, rather than her own mobile phone. She used the landline to dial 000, not her mobile. She didn't call or text FF when William went missing, and she apparently didn't see or didn't receive the "home in 5" text immediately. This all seems to support the line that mobile phone reception (and probably internet) was 'flaky' at FGMs house at the time. Of course this is all conjecture, not proof.
As an anecdote - around 2014 I used to regularly visit a caravan park where we had an onsite van - sometimes the internet and phone would work, sometimes the signal would be flaky. It was pretty common in 2014.

Have you seen the FGM walkthrough, did you miss the computer desk and setup at the start. I guess if we revisit 2014 and the fact that they facetime, I don’t expect FGM popped out to do that every time they called her it would be very inconvenient for someone of her age. But in your presumption, then I guess either from FGM or the side of the road would of been just as dodgy for MFC, such an important call that he couldn’t even remember the prospective clients name?

 

[31550]

Have you seen the FGM walkthrough, did you miss the computer desk and setup at the start. I guess if we revisit 2014 and the fact that they facetime, I don’t expect FGM popped out to do that every time they called her it would be very inconvenient for someone of her age. But in your presumption, then I guess either from FGM or the side of the road would of been just as dodgy for MFC, such an important call that he couldn’t even remember the prospective clients name?

FM said they telephoned and 'Facetimed'. She didn't say how regularly they 'Facetimed'. I think there were other family who lived nearby, so the Facetime might have been from another place. The internet and computer, if FGM had one, might have been ok for word processing (FGM was some sort of journalist), and maybe for e-mail, or even web browsing, but might not have been good enough for regular video chats.

As for FF remembering the name of his clients - he gave all these to the police in his statement made a couple of days after William disappeared - including the people he video-conferenced with, so I don't know why you say "he couldn't even remember"? Have you read his statement?

 

[fazacs1]

FM said they telephoned and 'Facetimed'. She didn't say how regularly they 'Facetimed'. I think there were other family who lived nearby, so the Facetime might have been from another place. The internet and computer, if FGM had one, might have been ok for word processing (FGM was some sort of journalist), and maybe for e-mail, or even web browsing, but might not have been good enough for regular video chats.

As for FF remembering the name of his clients - he gave all these to the police in his statement made a couple of days after William disappeared - including the people he video-conferenced with, so I don't know why you say "he couldn't even remember"? Have you read his statement?

Well I guess I’m going on facts, whereas you appear to be going on maybes, maybe some family members lived close by, maybe FGM left her home to be able to access a computer, maybe she went here. I guess if FGM was a journalist she would be connected to the internet to enable her to submit documents. Yes, I have, in GJ interview, he states he can’t remember and they move on to the next question. I would have thought GJ would of prompted with the prospectIve clients name, wasn’t really what I would of called a thorough fact finding interview, more of a nothing to see here, move on interview. Strange when you look and see how GJ treated other POI.