Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell * The foster mother has been recommended for charges of pervert the course of justice & interfere with a corpse

[Kurve]

Criminal charges the former foster parents currently face as at 15 April 2022 include:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

 

[BFew]

I’m wondering if the somewhat clumsy wording by Jubelin was meant to suggest that the SIM in question Only Showed Incoming calls.

the detectives told the foster father that the phone 'didn't show any usage, any call charge records or anything. It didn't have any activations on it but it was a phone that you had and it's had a disconnection'.

I don't think that the use of the word activations in the article, is saying that that the mobile service had not been activated.

Just that it didn't have any activations on it .... like call forwarding to messagebank/voicemail, call diversions to another mobile or a landline, or international roaming to allow it to work for making and receiving calls when overseas.

If the call records information Jubelin was going off was from standard Telstra billing info, and was only the standard outgoing call records, as incoming calls are not charged and not required to be listed at all in any shape or form for billing, call usage would show as zero, when there could have been incoming calls only.

 

[BFew]

So I reckon that Jubelin is talking about a mobile SIM card that Police have got the incoming voice and txt usage details on from a warrant to Telstra (for example), and they are wondering why this service only ever received incoming calls, when Telstra records show that the service had never had its messagebank/voicemail activated, or call forwarding/diversion, as is often the case when a 2nd number someone has is only used for incoming calls and the SIM attached to that mobile number is not in an active mobile phone (example: iPhone).

Noting that you can have a mobile number assigned that goes to messagebank/voicemail/call diversion/forwarding without ever having the SIM in your possession, or where the SIM is lost, damaged or destroyed. Where the messagebank/voicemail/call diversion/forwarding is done at the mobile service provider (like Telstra), and not after the incoming call reaches your SIM card and/or mobile phone (ie iPhone).

 

[JWS2019]

So a sim card that was never used and was cancelled before the child went missing is somehow evidence of something?

So I reckon that Jubelin is talking about a mobile SIM card that Police have got the incoming voice and txt usage details on from a warrant to Telstra (for example), and they are wondering why this service only ever received incoming calls, when Telstra records show that the service had never had its messagebank/voicemail activated, or call forwarding/diversion, as is often the case when a 2nd number someone has is only used for incoming calls and the SIM attached to that mobile number is not in an active mobile phone (example: iPhone).

Noting that you can have a mobile number assigned that goes to messagebank/voicemail/call diversion/forwarding without ever having the SIM in your possession, or where the SIM is lost, damaged or destroyed. Where the messagebank/voicemail/call diversion/forwarding is done at the mobile service provider (like Telstra), and not after the incoming call reaches your SIM card and/or mobile phone (ie iPhone).

There must be something in it otherwise it’s a moot point. I like your thinking on reasons for - even if it doesn’t occur I had a sim that I never used but diverted to primary number - however not sure how this relates to never used? Additionally if apps are used on wifi is this considered not used??

 

[Angry Red Bull]

I'd say the history is irrelevant. The existence of a second phone about to be used again is relevant. It was disconnected a few days beforehand could mean they had set up a sim for the FGM to be used and perhaps was used on the day of disappearance. Remember she lost her husband so the fosters wanted to keep her safe by giving her a mobile phone to use would be a sensible step.

So this drip feed is letting us know there was a second phone in play on the day imo. They then give a photo of all three on balcony. Yep FGM phone set up a few days before alleged abduction

The use of media is very deliberate toward leaking information compatible with their theory of involvement and to build pressure on them to crack and make a mistake.

"We know you gave your FGM a phone and we can track its location on the day"

If it went down as I outlined with a head strike incident to stop WT angry attack then the pressure is building

-FD now separated from them and they can interview her and what she remembers
-we know where FM went on Batar Cr Rd that day so we searched there
-we know there was the new FGM phone and can track location of it too
-we have the FGM car you used and are doing forensics
-we know the missing 1hr FF before going to chemist
-we now know there was physical discipline and intervention with kids


This would be doing their heads in

 

[31550]

I'd say the history is irrelevant. The existence of a second phone about to be used again is relevant. It was disconnected a few days beforehand could mean they had set up a sim for the FGM to be used and perhaps was used on the day of disappearance. Remember she lost her husband so the fosters wanted to keep her safe by giving her a mobile phone to use would be a sensible step.

So this drip feed is letting us know there was a second phone in play on the day imo. They then give a photo of all three on balcony. Yep FGM phone set up a few days before alleged abduction

The use of media is very deliberate toward leaking information compatible with their theory of involvement and to build pressure on them to crack and make a mistake.

"We know you gave your FGM a phone and we can track its location on the day"

If it went down as I outlined with a head strike incident to stop WT angry attack then the pressure is building

-FD now separated from them and they can interview her and what she remembers
-we know where FM went on Batar Cr Rd that day so we searched there
-we know there was the new FGM phone and can track location of it too
-we have the FGM car you used and are doing forensics
-we know the missing 1hr FF before going to chemist
-we now know there was physical discipline and intervention with kids


This would be doing their heads in

Police have had 8 years and 3 different lead investigators to interview and reinterview William's sister. If she had any material evidence to present, police should have it by now.

Do we really know exactly where on Batar Ck Rd and when, the FM drove? Even cell phone data would not be that accurate and granular to determine this accurately.

FGM car was not forensically examined for seven years. If the recent forensic examination produced material evidence (e.g. blood, DNA) we haven't heard about it.

The 'missing' 1 hour is not proven by any material evidence. It's all speculation and allegation. There are multiple conflicting versions of events. It is certainly suspicious and worthy of investigation, but there is no "smoking gun" evidence in the public domain which proves FF was "missing" for an hour.

Physical discipline, proven or unproven, in no way implies guilt or innocence over William's disappearance.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Police have had 8 years and 3 different lead investigators to interview and reinterview William's sister. If she had any material evidence to present, police should have it by now.

Do we really know exactly where on Batar Ck Rd and when, the FM drove? Even cell phone data would not be that accurate and granular to determine this accurately.

FGM car was not forensically examined for seven years. If the recent forensic examination produced material evidence (e.g. blood, DNA) we haven't heard about it.

The 'missing' 1 hour is not proven by any material evidence. It's all speculation and allegation. There are multiple conflicting versions of events. It is certainly suspicious and worthy of investigation, but there is no "smoking gun" evidence in the public domain which proves FF was "missing" for an hour.

Physical discipline, proven or unproven, in no way implies guilt or innocence over William's disappearance.

Interviewing a FD under care is entirely different to interviewing outside care when apart for some time

There were two areas of bushland as likely
on that Rd in that direction even if vague location data...only two spots

Forensic examination of car perhaps no result which we know of.

Both the FGM walk through and the photo change together with patio without sun patches are imo strong indicators of timeline problems. Also don't believe it is a smoking gun but suspicious

Don't think I said that discipline indicated guilt.

If she is sole POI and she is then all the steps are building pressure in my mind to force a mistake to incriminate if she is responsible. If they are attempting this strategy and I think they are then it's because they presently have insufficient evidence

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Insight PR would know all of this. Could be them. IMO

Interesting angle there, I hadnt considered the information being leaked from the defense. But having said that, would the defense have copies of the detectives walkthroughs?

The fact the the FGM walkthrough has been released by the DM and also now Chapmans walkthrough suggests Strikeforce involvement with these pieces of information.

 

[31550]

Interviewing a FD under care is entirely different to interviewing outside care when apart for some time

There were two areas of bushland as likely
on that Rd in that direction even if vague location data...only two spots

Forensic examination of car perhaps no result which we know of.

Both the FGM walk through and the photo change together with patio without sun patches are imo strong indicators of timeline problems. Also don't believe it is a smoking gun but suspicious

Don't think I said that discipline indicated guilt.

If she is sole POI and she is then all the steps are building pressure in my mind to force a mistake to incriminate if she is responsible. If they are attempting this strategy and I think they are then it's because they presently have insufficient evidence

William's sister was and is the responsibility of the Minister, not the fosters. She was only placed with the fosters because they already had William. She had previously been in care elsewhere. So it was up to police to deal with FACS if they wanted to interview her. They had this opportunity in Sep 2014, and again 5 months later when Jubelin took over the case, and again, at any time since. If she had any material evidence which suggested fosters were involved in William's disappearance, or that she was being maltreated, there was ample opportunity for this to be obtained, at which time it would have been highly appropriate to review her placement. This clearly did not happen, so we can only assume that she was either never interviewed, or if she was interviewed, she never indicated anything untoward about the fosters.

The November 2021 property and bushland search, investigation of the FGM car seems like a 'Hail Mary' move by police, at the request of the Coroner, to rule in or out the possibility of an 'accident' scenario - something which many (possibly including the coroner) had not been adequately explored. So far, nothing has emerged from this particular period of investigation into the public domain in terms of new evidence.

I agree that the recent 'drip-feed' release of information, mostly via the Daily Mail, is consistent with the theory that police are trying to put pressure on the FM as a sole POI. But this is all old information, known to police for years.

It's also possible that the information recently made public by DM is coming from someone else with access to the police brief.

 

[donwundermick]

Interesting angle there, I hadnt considered the information being leaked from the defense. But having said that, would the defense have copies of the detectives walkthroughs?

The fact the the FGM walkthrough has been released by the DM and also now Chapmans walkthrough suggests Strikeforce involvement with these pieces of information.

My understanding is that Insight and the carers had a major fallout resulting in legal action. Involving money allegedly. I suggest Insight did have access to the released material. DM may have approached them or vice versa. I can imagine the female carer could easily have upset the two females that ran Insight or perhaps they feel that they were hoodwinked. Before helping to hoodwink the masses. IMO

 

[TheDudeAbides]

My understanding is that Insight and the carers had a major fallout resulting in legal action. Involving money allegedly. I suggest Insight did have access to the released material. DM may have approached them or vice versa. I can imagine the female carer could easily have upset the two females that ran Insight or perhaps they feel that they were hoodwinked. Before helping to hoodwink the masses. IMO

I am not sure police would release walk through videos to any third party as no one has been charged in relation to his disappearance, therefor there is no need for any PR firm nor defense lawyers to have those videos.

Were they tendered as evidence at the Coroners hearings? Can anyone with legal expertise advise on whether evidence tendered in Coroners hearings is shared with all interested parties? I believe there are no "sides" in coroners hearings.

 

[31550]

Are Insight still running whereswilliam.org ?

The website still has this article, strongly in support of FM: It's been there since last November.

It's possible that the leaks from the brief are coming via connections with the bio family. They (as victims) would have a legitimate claim to seeing the brief of evidence. They might also be interested in raising awareness of issues which affect the wellbeing of William's sister.

 

[Awakening]

FM due in court today

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Are Insight still running whereswilliam.org ?

The website still has this article, strongly in support of FM: It's been there since last November.

It's possible that the leaks from the brief are coming via connections with the bio family. They (as victims) would have a legitimate claim to seeing the brief of evidence. They might also be interested in raising awareness of issues which affect the wellbeing of William's sister.

View attachment 1407797

I could be wrong, but I believe the FM has been credited for that story. Its believed they wanted to get ahead of the police as they began to get the feeling of being frozen out from the investigators in the case with Laidlaw coming in.

IMHO, I believe they were probably told why they were not being updated and hence this article was released. Shortly after we learn of the new police searches and naming the FM as a person of interest.

 

[31550]

https://criminalcpd.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Coronial_Inquests.pdf

57. The family of the deceased person has a right15 to appear in the inquest: s.57(3). The family is always given a copy of the brief of evidence.​

​

​

​

​

 

[BFew]

William Tyrrell's foster mother pleads not guilty to lying

William Tyrrell's foster mother has pleaded not guilty to giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'William Tyrrell's foster mother pleads not guilty to mysterious charge of lying to the top secret NSW Crime Commission'
'PUBLISHED: 12:26 AEST, 24 May 2022 | UPDATED: 12:34 AEST, 24 May 2022'

William Tyrrell's foster mother has pleaded not guilty to giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission over an unknown matter.

'will fight the charge when it returns to court in June.'

'The foster mother did not appear in court on Tuesday and suppression orders protecting her identity and specifics of the case were extended.'

 

[BFew]

when it returns to court in June.'

June 7.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/william-tyrrells-foster-mother-pleads-not-guilty-to-misleading-nsw-crime-commission/news-story/0e8a190f40d03dac153ee45c0bcab03d

'The matter will return to court on June 7'

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Profiling says 97% that people knowing the child are involved in disappearance. The police know this. Despite this, two highly credentialed detectives have separately cleared the families after following protocols to do so AND there remains scant evidence. These facts are a significant impediment to now reversing that stance and identifying FM as POI. Not impossible of course but is concerning that when police can't find an avenue amongst the 3% they turn to someone twice cleared. I have a problem with this. Either the first two conducted inadequate investigation or they are now throwing a dart randomly at the dart board. Time will tell which it is.

I still have some belief that Ronald Chapman sighting is important. I have read up extensively on false memories. I don't believe it was. Quoting text, "where a memory arises from an incident that has a very strong emotional reaction it becomes inoculated to the possibility of being false". RC was appalled and disgusted by both drivers that they would risk life (of the child unrestrained and then of other drivers on wrong side of road) and muttered obscenities under his breath. It is NOT a false memory accordingly. Perhaps some aspects might like red and blue being called a spiderman suit but it was a sighting proximate to the abduction itself if there was one so that must give weighting to veracity of it also being a spiderman suit as stated. These cars nor the people were ever seen locally again by RC. That also gives weight to them being party to abduction

You then turn to why a woman would drive. Hardly consistent with a sexual abuse motive I would suggest. There is also disparity in timing. 10.45 sighting when it was more likely a 10..25 abduction and 5-7 min trip to travel 1.6 klm. ....a clear 10-12 min difference. There is no explanation of this other than one or both are in error.

When Jubelin attended the Inquest he walked straight past the BGM not recognizing her. So to what extent were extended family or friends of BIO checked? Seems not much. An abducted child would need to be home schooled and not have medicare use. I'm told schools insist on Birth Certificate so the child would remain home schooled even to this day if he were alive. Easier now as he is no longer a toddler and everyone still sees that image enduring

Many have said it's not logistically possible. I have to say I'm still unconvinced.

 

[31550]

William Tyrrell's foster mother pleads not guilty to lying

William Tyrrell's foster mother has pleaded not guilty to giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'William Tyrrell's foster mother pleads not guilty to mysterious charge of lying to the top secret NSW Crime Commission'
'PUBLISHED: 12:26 AEST, 24 May 2022 | UPDATED: 12:34 AEST, 24 May 2022'

William Tyrrell's foster mother has pleaded not guilty to giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission over an unknown matter.

'will fight the charge when it returns to court in June.'

'The foster mother did not appear in court on Tuesday and suppression orders protecting her identity and specifics of the case were extended.'

Gotta love the DM, especially this bit:

The couple have been in and out of the courts for months now fighting to clear their names. ​

​

Actually they've hardly been in court at all. Most times (if not all) they did not appear in person. And rather than fighting to clear their names, the court appearances have mostly been "for mention", to enter a plea, or to apply for Section 14. They can't exactly "fight to clear their names" when prosecution haven't even presented details of allegations against them.

 

[BFew]

They can't exactly "fight to clear their names" when prosecution haven't even presented details of allegations against them.

The names that have been suppressed.

Newspeak.

 

[31550]

Profiling says 97% that people knowing the child are involved in disappearance. The police know this. Despite this, two highly credentialed detectives have separately cleared the families after following protocols to do so AND there remains scant evidence. These facts are a significant impediment to now reversing that stance and identifying FM as POI. Not impossible of course but is concerning that when police can't find an avenue amongst the 3% they turn to someone twice cleared. I have a problem with this. Either the first two conducted inadequate investigation or they are now throwing a dart randomly at the dart board. Time will tell which it is.

I still have some belief that Ronald Chapman sighting is important. I have read up extensively on false memories. I don't believe it was. Quoting text, "where a memory arises from an incident that has a very strong emotional reaction it becomes inoculated to the possibility of being false". RC was appalled and disgusted by both drivers that they would risk life (of the child unrestrained and then of other drivers on wrong side of road) and muttered obscenities under his breath. It is NOT a false memory accordingly. Perhaps some aspects might like red and blue being called a spiderman suit but it was a sighting proximate to the abduction itself if there was one so that must give weighting to veracity of it also being a spiderman suit as stated. These cars nor the people were ever seen locally again by RC. That also gives weight to them being party to abduction

You then turn to why a woman would drive. Hardly consistent with a sexual abuse motive I would suggest. There is also disparity in timing. 10.45 sighting when it was more likely a 10..25 abduction and 5-7 min trip to travel 1.6 klm. ....a clear 10-12 min difference. There is no explanation of this other than one or both are in error.

When Jubelin attended the Inquest he walked straight past the BGM not recognizing her. So to what extent were extended family or friends of BIO checked? Seems not much. An abducted child would need to be home schooled and not have medicare use. I'm told schools insist on Birth Certificate so the child would remain home schooled even to this day if he were alive. Easier now as he is no longer a toddler and everyone still sees that image enduring

Many have said it's not logistically possible. I have to say I'm still unconvinced.

The inference is that BGM was possibly the woman Chapman saw? Or more generally, someone close to the bio family was responsible for taking William?

Firstly, I do think it's logistically possible - it fits with other pieces of evidence in the timeline. And while Chapman's evidence is unconvincing, it has not been proven to be false or impossible.

Immediate bio family were checked and alibis confirmed by police within days of William's disappearance. It is difficult to see how they could organise at least two third-party conspirators to abduct William at fairly short notice without attracting attention. Also, given the previously failed attempt to abduct William, they would have known that, even if successful, it would be almost impossible to keep this hidden for long. It would mean giving up forever any chance of seeing William again, as they knew they would be suspected and watched. I'm not convinced they had the resources to pull off this sort of thing.

As you point out, as William gets older, it gets even harder with school, doctors, etc.

So, while Chapman may have seen what he says he saw, and possibly it was William, I don't think the bio family were likely to be behind it.

 

[BFew]

Can a SIM card be used in other devices, such as a

such as a battery operated wireless router that uses the mobile network to transmit a wifi signal.

Here's the Huawei E5786 that Telstra rebranded as the Telstra Wi-Fi 4G Advanced Pro X, and released on 29 Apr 2014, 4 months prior to William's disappearance.

Telstra Wi-Fi 4G Advanced Pro X: a world first

Author: Andrew Volard. Today we’re introducing the Telstra Advanced Pro X – a very handy mobile Wi-Fi device that can connect your favourite Wi-Fi enabled devices to the internet when you’re on the move.

web.archive.org

'working on Telstra’s 4G 1800MHz network will support very brisk download speeds of between 2 Mbps to 50 Mbps in 4G areas – our testing of the devices LTE-A capability (which supports theoretical maximum peak download speeds of 300Mbps) points to world-leading performance once we introduce 700MHz spectrum in early 2015.'

If nowhere around Kendall had 4G 1800MHz coverage in September 2014, the devices 3G 850MHz and 3G 2100MHz coverage might have sufficed for a strong enough mobile data signal (if those frequency bands were used in the around Kendall mobile base station mobile networks in Sep 2014)

https://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/hardware/?action=h_view&model_id=1542

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The inference is that BGM was possibly the woman Chapman saw? Or more generally, someone close to the bio family was responsible for taking William?

Firstly, I do think it's logistically possible - it fits with other pieces of evidence in the timeline. And while Chapman's evidence is unconvincing, it has not been proven to be false or impossible.

Immediate bio family were checked and alibis confirmed by police within days of William's disappearance. It is difficult to see how they could organise at least two third-party conspirators to abduct William at fairly short notice without attracting attention. Also, given the previously failed attempt to abduct William, they would have known that, even if successful, it would be almost impossible to keep this hidden for long. It would mean giving up forever any chance of seeing William again, as they knew they would be suspected and watched. I'm not convinced they had the resources to pull off this sort of thing.

As you point out, as William gets older, it gets even harder with school, doctors, etc.

So, while Chapman may have seen what he says he saw, and possibly it was William, I don't think the bio family were likely to be behind it.

The BGM was not the woman seen. The woman seen was 25-35 blonde and plump. Not possible to be BGM though she is also blonde. My point was rather that the comment that the Bio family including extended family and close friends being fully investigated and excluded is entirely inconsistent with the fact that the principal investigator on the case for 4 years failed to recognize the woman who was spokesperson and matriarch of that family. Sounds to me like initial interviews were done of BIO parents and perhaps nothing more.

You make reasoned assumptions that they were acting rationally rather than emotionally. I would counter by saying that being deprived of your own child or children is a highly emotive motivation not a rational or logical one. All that drives one in that instance is to retrieve your children or child. How practically you may proceed thereafter is probably not uppermost in thinking. The fact they were unsuccessful initially simply makes them better prepared should they make latter attempts....just my opinion.

OR

We can go with a FM who has twice been excluded as being involved and one of those times was when Jubelin separated them rattled their cages and listened for incriminating discussions on way home via listening device in the car and there was none

 

[31550]

such as a battery operated wireless router that uses the mobile network to transmit a wifi signal.

Here's the Huawei E5786 that Telstra rebranded as the Telstra Wi-Fi 4G Advanced Pro X, and released on 29 Apr 2014, 4 months prior to William's disappearance.

Telstra Wi-Fi 4G Advanced Pro X: a world first

Author: Andrew Volard. Today we’re introducing the Telstra Advanced Pro X – a very handy mobile Wi-Fi device that can connect your favourite Wi-Fi enabled devices to the internet when you’re on the move.

web.archive.org

'working on Telstra’s 4G 1800MHz network will support very brisk download speeds of between 2 Mbps to 50 Mbps in 4G areas – our testing of the devices LTE-A capability (which supports theoretical maximum peak download speeds of 300Mbps) points to world-leading performance once we introduce 700MHz spectrum in early 2015.'

If nowhere around Kendall had 4G 1800MHz coverage in September 2014, the devices 3G 850MHz and 3G 2100MHz coverage might have sufficed for a strong enough mobile data signal (if those frequency bands were used in the around Kendall mobile base station mobile networks in Sep 2014)

https://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/hardware/?action=h_view&model_id=1542

Did FF have a 4G modem? Did he take it to Kendall? Did he use it?

 

[31550]

The BGM was not the woman seen. The woman seen was 25-35 blonde and plump. Not possible to be BGM though she is also blonde. My point was rather that the comment that the Bio family including extended family and close friends being fully investigated and excluded is entirely inconsistent with the fact that the principal investigator on the case for 4 years failed to recognize the woman who was spokesperson and matriarch of that family. Sounds to me like initial interviews were done of BIO parents and perhaps nothing more.

You make reasoned assumptions that they were acting rationally rather than emotionally. I would counter by saying that being deprived of your own child or children is a highly emotive motivation not a rational or logical one. All that drives one in that instance is to retrieve your children or child. How practically you may proceed thereafter is probably not uppermost in thinking. The fact they were unsuccessful initially simply makes them better prepared should they make latter attempts....just my opinion.

OR

We can go with a FM who has twice been excluded as being involved and one of those times was when Jubelin separated them rattled their cages and listened for incriminating discussions on way home via listening device in the car and there was none

It wasn't the immediate bios, so the emotional factor is not as high. They would be as 'rational' as any person abducting a child could be described as 'rational'. They would have driven to Kendall from elsewhere in a planned and co-ordinated manner (two cars), then set up a spot to watch for William without causing suspicion of fosters or neighbours. Then driven to a predetermined location. They are not acting on a whim.
With all the publicity surrounding this case, I'd think anyone suddenly appearing with a 3YO boy matching William's appearance would be unlikely to escape detection and suspicion.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Whichever way you look at it the process by which it happened is unlikely. That's why we have the situation we have with elapse of years and no answer. So that forces us to consider further alternatives